Kohn's Zone

February 1, 2026

Beyond "Electronic Flashcards": A Conversation with Gary Stager
Computers in classrooms may have the potential to radically enrich and democratize student learning, but the reality of ed tech typically looks very different. This extended episode of Kohn's Zone features a stimulating conversation with Gary Stager, one of our foremost experts on this topic. He takes us beyond banal generalities ("technology has pluses and minuses") in order to tease out which types, uses, and purposes are constructive and which are a waste of time - or worse. In what he calls our current "age of rising pedagogical authoritarianism," tech often is put in the service of "managing children, 'delivering' instruction, narrowing the curriculum, and turn[ing] kids into question-answering ATMs." Whereas, Stager insists, computers can and should help students to mess around with possibilities, create thrilling projects, and make sense of the world.
RESOURCES
Sylvia Libow Martinez and Gary Stager, Invent to Learn: Making, Tinkering, and Engineering in the Classroom (2nd ed.), 2019: https://tinyurl.com/33k48zd8
Gary Stager, Twenty Things to Do with a Computer - Forward 50, 2021: https://tinyurl.com/mpdky2cw
https://constructingmodernknowledge.com/
Alfie Kohn, "The Sneaky Conservatism of Ed Tech," Education Week, September 27, 2023: https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/tech-conservatism/
 
A note from Alfie Kohn:
My sincere thanks to the listeners who have taken a minute to click on the DONATE link and helped to cover our production costs, thereby keeping the podcast ad- and paywall-free. If you are not yet one of the listeners who has done this, it's not too late. It will also not be too late tomorrow, but doing so right now would be even better.
Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it! 
 




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PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio
ART: Abi Kohn

January 15, 2026

How to Kill Kids' Interest in Reading
Surveys reveal that fewer children and adults are reading for pleasure. This might be due partly to social media, but certain classroom strategies and school policies likely play a role. In this episode we come at the issue backwards: What would teachers do if their goal was to extinguish kids' enthusiasm about books? Well, they would adopt a "fonix fetish" when teaching young children. They would require older students to read for a certain length of time -- and keep a log to prove they complied. They would assign books rather than letting kids choose, test them on the content, and offer rewards for reading. These and other traditional practices are extremely effective...at leading kids to regard reading as an activity to be endured rather than enjoyed.
RESOURCES:
Jessica K. Bone et al., "The Decline in Reading for Pleasure Over 20 Years...," iScience, 2025: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12496190/
Teresa Cremin, "Reading for Pleasure," Language and Education, 2024: https://tinyurl.com/376jcra8
Katherine Marsh, "Why Kids Aren't Falling in Love with Reading," The Atlantic, March 2023: https://tinyurl.com/mrxyfdpd
Alfie Kohn, "A Closer Look at Reading Incentive Programs," excerpt from Punished by Rewards (1993/2018): https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/reading-incentives/
For a list of sources debunking claims of the "Science of Reading" campaign about phonics instruction, see note 11 of A. Kohn, "The Siren Song of 'Evidence-Based Instruction," 2024: https://tinyurl.com/24nyam6y.
Seth A. Parsons & Joy Dangora Erickson, “Where Is Motivation in the Science of Reading?“, Phi Delta Kappan, 2024: https://tinyurl.com/mus7vn5p
Michael Becker et al., “Intrinsic and Extrinsic Reading Motivation as Predictors of Reading Literacy,” J of Educational Psych, 2010: https://tinyurl.com/3z34ctdd
Linda M. Pavonetti et al., “Accelerated Reader: What Are the Lasting Effects...?", J of Adolescent & Adult Literacy, 2002/2003: https://tinyurl.com/yj8dfnwb
Barbara A. Marinak & Linda B. Gambrell, “Intrinsic Motivation and Rewards,” Literacy Research & Instruction, 2008: https://tinyurl.com/2yc3zrjp
 
A note from Alfie Kohn:
I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)
Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode you've just listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.




Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
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PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio
ART: Abi Kohn

January 1, 2026

Who Gets to Decide? - Part 2
Intellectually vibrant classrooms are distinguished by teachers who do a lot more asking than telling. Their motto when confronting challenges or planning lessons is "Bring the kids in on it!" Regular class meetings offer a significant role for students to reflect on "how we want our class to be" (rather than focusing on specific rules). This second of a two-part episode digs deeply into strategies for supporting student autonomy and then explores some of the structural and psychological reasons why some teachers are reluctant to move in this direction. It's tough to give up control, but that's when the learning really starts.
RESOURCES:
Daphne Blunt Bugental et al., “Who’s the Boss?", Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 72 (1997): 1297-1309
Child Development Project, Ways We Want Our Class to Be: Class Meetings That Build Commitment to Kindness and Learning (Developmental Studies Center, 1996) [https://tinyurl.com/4zkptxec]
 
A note from Alfie Kohn:
My sincere thanks to the listeners who have taken a minute to click on the DONATE link (or to visit coff.ee/kohnszone) and helped to cover our production costs, thereby keeping the podcast ad- and paywall-free. If you are not yet one of the listeners who has done this, it's not too late. It will also not be too late tomorrow, but doing so right now would be even better.
Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode you've just listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.




Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
Donate
PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio
ART: Abi Kohn

December 15, 2025

Who Gets to Decide? - Part 1
An impressive body of research shows that people of all ages - including students in classrooms - are happier, healthier, and more productive when they have some say about what they're doing. Indeed, the way children learn to make good decisions is by making decisions. Why, then, are so many classrooms more focused on eliciting their compliance than supporting their autonomy? In this, the first of a two-part episode, stories and studies illustrate the benefits of giving students a real voice about what and how they learn, how problems are solved, and even how the classroom is arranged and decorated. What's more, many such decisions are best made collectively (and not just through voting) because autonomy + community = democracy.
 
A note from Alfie Kohn:
I made two decisions when I started this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you.
     Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode you've just listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.




Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
Donate
PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio
ART: Abi Kohn

December 1, 2025

The Curious Case of the Incurious Children
A Conversation with Susan Engel
Everyone agrees that it's good to be curious, but that doesn't mean schools are committed to fostering children's curiosity. This extended episode of Kohn's Zone features a provocative conversation with early-childhood expert Susan Engel of Williams College, who draws on a deep background of theory and research (some of it her own) to probe the nature of curiosity -- that remarkable desire we have to resolve discrepancies between what we encounter and what we expected. Curiosity can feed on itself, generating new and subtler questions, yet classrooms often fail to support this process -- and indeed may actively discourage it. The more densely packed the curriculum, and the more structured (and goal-oriented) the school day is, Engel argues, the less chance kids have to wonder and explore. She offers suggestions for how teachers can encourage students' curiosity and help them figure out how best to act on it. We also discuss her newest book, which describes her visists to kindergartens across the country: What distinguishes classrooms for young children that are exceptional from those that make a thoughtful observer wince? (Hint: It's not mostly a function of race, class, or how nice the teacher is.)
RESOURCES:
Susan Engel, The Hungry Mind (Harvard Univ. Press, 2018) [https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674984110]
Susan Engel, The Intellectual Lives of Children (Harvard Univ. Press, 2022) [https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674278646]
Susan Engel, The End of the Rainbow (New Press, 2015) [https://thenewpress.org/books/the-end-of-the-rainbow/]
Susan Engel, American Kindergarten (Univ. of Chicago Press, 2026) [https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/A/bo258923309.html]
Alfie Kohn, "Less and Less Curious," Education Week, October 2, 2024 [https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/curiosity/]
 
A note from Alfie Kohn:
I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)
Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode you've just listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.




Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
Donate
PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio
ART: Abi Kohn