Generation on the Rise Podcast AUDIO

Maggie Dobbs is a trained city planner (Rutgers) who spent a decade writing comprehensive plans across Montgomery County before stepping into her current role as Borough Manager of Narberth, Pennsylvania, a half-square-mile community tucked inside Lower Merion Township just outside of Philadelphia. She arrived after a period of leadership turnover. What she found was not a small job. It was a dense one.
Host Brandon Ford joins co-host Nancy Hess in a wide ranging conversation with Maggie that moves through the real experience of borough management: the math of running a full municipal government — police, public works, library, eleven miles of road — with fifteen people and a fraction of a township’s budget; the intimacy that makes boroughs special and the same intimacy that makes criticism land close to the heart; and the reality that wearing every hat in the building demands more knowledge, not less, than specializing in a larger organization.
Maggie is candid about walking into a community that had cycled through five managers in four years, what it took to steady that ship, and why her focus is on building standard operating procedures so the day-to-day can run itself. Along the way, the crew explores Narberth’s housing story — how a historically working-class rail town became the highest median sales price in Montgomery County — and what that shift means for a community once referred to as “Mayberry,” still sorting out who it is.
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“My job gets in the way of me doing my job.”
— Maggie Dobbs — on the borough manager’s capacity problem

“Your hats are wearing hats. It’s a lot.”
— Maggie Dobbs — on generalist demands in a small-staff borough

"If I had a campaign slogan, it would be policy and procedure. My big push has been standard operating procedures. I want to think less about the day-to-day. I want the day-to-day to essentially run itself because we've already figured it out. I don't want to have to answer questions I've answered again." — Maggie Dobbs, on her first-year management strategy

🔥 Hot Takes
Five Realities Before You Take the Seat
* Your job will crowd out your job. Protect space for strategic work.
* SOPs are not paperwork. They are oxygen.
* Fill your blind spots early. Pride is expensive.
* Proactive information reduces political friction.
* Borough leadership is not smaller. It’s closer.
Timestamps
0:00 – Introducing Maggie and Narberth1:18 – The “donut hole” geography inside Lower Merion2:09 – Maggie’s path: NJ Dept. of Agriculture → Rutgers → Planning3:30 – Montgomery County Planning Commission & contract planning model5:49 – Writing four comprehensive plans; interviewing hundreds8:12 – Planners as connectors in local government9:36 – Being tapped for the manager role10:01 – First-year lessons; “90% of the day is listening”12:36 – Compliance vs. innovation — the Venn diagram problem13:20 – Shared services with Lower Merion17:45 – Joint traffic study collaboration21:29 – Pennsylvania’s “nugget” borough system24:02 – Borough vs. township — professional fit27:08 – Narberth staffing reality (4 admin, 6 police, 5 public works)30:00 – Affordable housing question31:05 – Narberth’s housing transformation36:10 – Generalist vs. specialist municipal structures40:47 – SOPs, website overhaul, proactive communication42:00 – Five managers in four years — rebuilding trust44:34 – The lunch that changed her mind49:57 – Finance gaps & building a support network52:27 – Who thrives in borough leadership?54:31 – Closing reflections



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There is a polite fiction in local government that serving “at the pleasure of the governing body” rests securely on mutual trust. Often it does. Increasingly, it can feel more fragile.
In today’s political climate, the employment relationship between elected officials and their chief administrative officer deserves a closer examination. What protections actually exist? Who advocates for the manager when circumstances shift?
In this episode of Generation on the Rise, Eden Ratliff and Dave Pribulka sit down with Brad Gotshall to explore what it means to become, in his words, a “free agent.” They examine contracts and severance, and they also confront questions of reputation, professional identity, and the personal weight of transitions that can be political, strategic, or simply inevitable.

“We, I think we all see ourselves as good negotiators. That’s what we’re paid to do. But for ourselves, I think it’s a different animal…I don’t like to talk about myself. And I think that’s the case with most of us…We’re not really comfortable talking about ourselves or advocating for ourselves, but, you know, the past two places I’ve been..it’s really been an unfortunate wake-up call for me that the most important conversation, is how to protect ourselves.” - Brad

“It does bring up an interesting question about the role of the recruiter in the process of interacting with candidates. And I’ve been a part of recruitments where I’ve been very impressed by the recruiter. They’ve been very honest with me about the community, about the issues that were going on, the dynamics. Even going so far in some cases is saying, you know, you really might want to give this some consideration.
I guess the question is: to all the recruiters that are listening and would be recruiters, how do you think your role is represented with both the candidate as well as the organization?” - Dave

“There’s a recruiter who’s now retired, regional to Pennsylvania that we all know. And he used to say the same thing. He was like, in the interview process, when we’re getting down to making a job offer, every elected body and every manager wants the same thing…and the whole thing is a lie, but it’s the same thing. The board wants the manager to say, I love you now and I will love you forever.
And the manager wants the board to say, we love you now and we will love you forever. And together we will ride off into the sunset. But the reality is, it’s not true.” - Eden

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⏱️ Timestamps
* 00:00 – Cold open, book banter, introductions
* 04:30 – Brad’s background: elected official at 17 to professional manager
* 09:30 – Transition to Warren County and “free agency”
* 11:30 – Protecting yourself as a manager: personal and professional buckets
* 13:30 – Contract negotiations: learning the hard way
* 16:00 – Do managers need representation?
* 19:00 – The loneliness of severance negotiations
* 22:00 – Lower Paxton: no contract, negotiated exit
* 26:00 – Recruiter’s role in negotiations
* 31:00 – Severance pushback and board dynamics
* 37:00 – Creative contract structures (Rehoboth example)
* 39:30 – Should managers use agents?
* 41:30 – Legal review vs. negotiation support
* 43:00 – Preserving reputation under NDAs
* 45:30 – Building a personal brand before crisis hits
* 48:00 – No-fault divorce vs. political dismissal
* 50:00 – Wrap-up and Part Two teaser


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Eden and Dave are joined by guest Jeffrey Stonehill, Borough Manager of Chambersburg Pennsylvania. They begin with an examination of how crises today differ from those Jeffrey encountered when he began in the field. Although they traverse the doom and gloom of dealing with crisis in the profession, they return to the core reasons they remain in the field.
Contrasting generational perspectives and recognition of the vulnerability that comes with commitment and transitions make this episode a memorable one.

“If everything is a crisis, nothing is.” - Eden
You have to have a little bit of self-confidence. I will find the place, I will find the role, I will find the journey. It's like the actor—the Broadway play closes, what do they do the next day? You need to have confidence that it will work itself out. - Jeffrey
"There is a lightness of being after you're gone that almost hits as you're walking out the door. That's when I realized how much pressure I'd been under. That feeling is quickly replaced by this feeling of not being a part of something bigger than yourself anymore. When that ends, especially if it ends abruptly, it's a hard realization to wake up one morning and your calendar is empty." - Dave

Hot Takes:
🔥Crisis has always been part of the job. The pressure isn’t new — the speed is.
🔥Not every issue deserves full emotional escalation.
🔥Fire Suppression ≠ Fire Prevention. Be proactive.
🔥 The communities you serve will continue without you—and that's okay.
🔥Leaving a community requires a grieving process, even when it's your choice to leave.
🔥The work is meaningful. Despite the pressure, leaders would not trade the experience.
Timestamps
00:00 - Cold open and greetings03:47 - Welcome and introduction to Generation on the Rise04:42 - Introducing first-time guest Jeffrey Stonehill06:32 - Jeffrey’s career journey: From SUNY grad to 40-year manager08:15 - The “crisis as normal” phenomenon in local government11:45 - Why municipalities attract constant crisis15:20 - The evolution of pressure: Then vs. now19:30 - Harrisburg bankruptcy and advisory board experience24:10 - The psychological toll of perpetual emergency management28:45 - Learning to disconnect (or trying to)33:20 - The loneliness of municipal management37:50 - Why managers struggle to share burdens42:15 - Transitioning between communities: The Disney tradition45:40 - The grieving process when you leave a community49:18 - Taking care of yourself and your family50:05 - Despite everything: Why we love this profession52:03 - Closing thoughts and next week’s preview

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"We are all one elected official away from a hostile work environment.” - Dave
“Yeah, but if it gets that bad, why would you stay?" - Eden
Today on Generation on the Rise, what starts as tactical shop talk evolves into a revealing examination of professional isolation, with Dave pushing hard on systemic advocacy gaps while Eden counters with self-reliance pragmatism. By the end, they’re debating whether the profession’s recruitment crisis stems from lack of awareness or legitimate wariness about the job’s inherent instability.
“Labor relations are high risk, high reward. When it goes bad, it goes bad fast.” - Brandon
Hot Takes:
* Generational dynamics within unions have shifted bargaining leverage.
* Don’t wait until negotiation year to build trust.
* Personnel management is on-the-job training, no matter your preparation.
* Managers lack advocacy structures..
* Geographic mobility is a professional survival skill, not a character flaw.
* The profession needs better advocacy and mentorship structures.
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Timestamps
* 00:00 – Sustainability banter, ICMA programs
* 03:00 – Topic launch: manager’s role in HR
* 04:30 – Why personnel issues are hardest to prepare for
* 06:00 – HR professionals vs textbook training
* 08:30 – Generational workforce dynamics
* 10:00 – Labor relations as high-risk / high-reward
* 12:00 – Collective bargaining philosophy differences
* 18:00 – “Sacrificing the unborn” and pension negotiations
* 22:00 – Relationship building with unions outside negotiation years
* 29:00 – Transparency and negotiating in public
* 33:00 – The manager as an employee: who advocates for us?
* 38:00 – Hostile work environment discussion
* 44:00 – The limits of formal support structures
* 50:00 – Informal networks and senior advisors
* 53:00 – ICMA’s role: management vs manager debate
* 55:00 – Closing reflections on the realities of the profession


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“y’all didn’t think we were gonna talk about the sex
appeal of water meters, did you?” -Dave
“I just wanna put it out there. Sexy is a bonafide
public policy term. It is absolutely in the vernacular.” - Eden
In this episode of Generation on the Rise, host Brandon Ford, along with co-hosts Eden Ratliff, and Dave Pribulka tackles a theme every local government professional eventually feels: what happens to idealism under the administrative weight of local government? They explore how bright-eyed employees and experienced managers alike dare to bring bold ideas into organizations that move at a cautious, political pace.
From FEMA flood maps and unaffordable insurance mandates to curbside compost pilots, rural broadband, and “pitch day” idea sessions, the hosts debate the long game of innovation in public service. Is idealism crushed… or refined? Is innovation easier in small towns or large systems? And how do managers protect enthusiasm without promising what can’t be delivered? This episode is a candid look at risk, culture, pace of change, and how leaders keep the spark alive in a system that is built to resist.
"I have two post-it notes on my desk that have followed me to the many jobs that I've had. One says, 'don't be an obstacle.' And the other one says, 'shut up and listen.'" - Dave
"Ideas don't usually die straight out—they die or fade away administratively. The bureaucracy often wears everything down." - Brandon
“Local government is a long game. Innovation especially is a long game.” - Eden
⏱️ Timestamps
* 00:00 – Cold open, MLK weekend, intro
* 01:30 – Topic launch: idealism vs reality in local government
* 03:30 – Recruiting innovators vs navigating systems
* 06:00 – Culture, risk, and managers driving pace of change
* 08:30 – When ideas get shelved: personal experiences
* 11:30 – Eden’s floodplain / stormwater infrastructure story
* 15:30 – Cynicism vs experience vs risk aversion debate
* 18:30 – Timing, turnover, and “the long game”
* 20:30 – Small vs large municipality innovation debate
* 24:30 – Defining innovation vs change
* 29:00 – Dave’s rural broadband case study
* 33:00 – Is this generation more innovation-oriented?
* 36:00 – Social media, scrutiny, and risk today
* 43:30 – How managers build a culture of innovation
* 48:30 – “Pitch Day” concept discussion
* 52:30 – Advice to young professionals
* 55:00 – Closing reflections

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