Triple P Podcast

Does working fewer hours solve the challenges facing today’s firefighters—or does the conversation need to go deeper?

Chiefs Clayton O’Brien and Josh Eberly welcome Dr. Paul Hasenmeier, Public Safety Director and Fire Chief for Hernando County, Florida, to discuss his doctoral research on reduced work hours in the fire service.

Drawing on interviews with chief fire officers in the southeastern United States, Paul explores how leaders balance firefighter wellness, operational readiness, training, staffing, and fiscal responsibility. He also shares his experience implementing a 48-hour workweek with Kelly days in his department.

The discussion goes beyond the 24/48 versus 24/72 debate to examine a central question: **Are we reducing work hours, addressing workload, or both?**

**Discussion Highlights**

• **Training and readiness:** How fewer hours on duty can affect training opportunities, incident experience, and skill development.
• **Staffing and cost:** Additional personnel, qualified acting officers, and potential increases in overtime during implementation.
• **Wellness and recovery:** Why sleep disruption, demanding shifts, and secondary employment remain important considerations.
• **Recruitment and retention:** Reduced hours can attract applicants, but leadership, culture, and resources still matter.
• **Deployment alternatives:** Additional staffed units, peak-demand EMS coverage, crew rotation, and different shift models.

**Key Takeaways**

A schedule change requires more than a new calendar. Departments must plan for staffing, training, coverage, funding, and community expectations.

Additional time off does not automatically reduce the demands of a busy shift. Examining apparatus and personnel workload can help leaders protect time for training, fitness, meals, and recovery.

Reduced work hours should be considered alongside broader wellness efforts, including peer support, exposure reduction, physical fitness, and a supportive work environment.

There is no single schedule that fits every department. Local needs and evidence should guide decisions.

**Episode Chapters**

00:09 — Meet Dr. Paul Hasenmeier
02:37 — Why he researched reduced work hours
07:46 — The four research themes
14:20 — Reduced hours beyond 24/72
15:49 — Training, experience, and readiness
23:29 — Staffing needs versus workload
28:54 — Apparatus and personnel utilization
34:30 — Economic, political, and labor considerations
45:52 — Who participated in the research
48:27 — Work-life balance and wellness
50:44 — Secondary employment and recovery
54:21 — Exploring shorter shifts
1:06:28 — Recruitment, retention, and culture
1:18:00 — Crew rotation and individual workload
1:21:17 — Balancing wellness and community service
1:28:42 — Paul’s published dissertation
1:35:00 — Final advice

*Times follow the supplied transcript and may need adjustment for the final edit.*

**Guest Resource**

Paul’s dissertation is available as a self-published book on Amazon. Search **Paul Hasenmeier** to locate his research and practical considerations for departments evaluating reduced work hours.

*The episode includes research findings and professional opinions. The study examines chief officer perceptions and does not establish a universally preferred schedule or guaranteed outcomes.*

Follow the **Triple P Podcast**, the official podcast of the **Ohio Fire Chiefs Association**, and share this episode with your chief officers, training staff, and union leadership.

Promotion changes your title but earning trust and leading your crew takes much more.

In this episode of the Triple P Podcast, host Clayton O’Brien sits down with retired Elyria Fire Chief Joe Pronesti to discuss the transition from firefighter to company officer. Drawing on 37 years in the fire service, Joe shares candid stories, hard-earned lessons, and mistakes that helped shape his leadership.

From moving from “buddy to boss” to setting expectations, holding consistent standards, and working with senior firefighters, this conversation explores what it takes to lead both in the firehouse and on the fireground. Clayton and Joe also discuss managing frustrated firefighters, keeping ego in check, building relationships with labor, and earning the trust your crew needs when a Mayday occurs.

The episode previews Joe’s Ohio Fire Chiefs Association Officer Development Series class on "Transitioning from the back step to the officer’s seat." Whether you’re preparing for promotion, newly promoted, or an experienced officer, this conversation offers practical lessons to bring back to your crew.

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In this episode of the Triple P Podcast, we sit down with Paul Combs—internationally recognized fire service cartoonist, speaker, author, artist, and retired firefighter/paramedic.

Paul's work has challenged the fire service to think differently about leadership, culture, mental health, firefighter wellness, organizational accountability, and the future of our profession. Through powerful illustrations, compelling artwork, and thought-provoking commentary, he has sparked important conversations across the fire service and beyond.

During this conversation, we discuss leadership challenges facing today's fire service, the importance of self-awareness, the role of culture in organizational success, and how honest dialogue can drive meaningful change. Paul shares insights from his decades of experience and offers practical perspectives for chiefs, company officers, aspiring leaders, and firefighters at every level.

Whether you're leading an organization, preparing for promotion, or simply striving to be a better firefighter and leader, this episode delivers valuable lessons you can apply immediately.

Topics Covered:
• Fire service leadership and accountability
• Organizational culture and change
• Mental health and firefighter wellness
• Professional development and growth
• Communication and influence
• The power of art and storytelling in the fire service
• Lessons from a career in public service

Learn More About Paul Combs:
Paul's website: https://paulcombsart.com/
Art Gallery 317: https://artgallery317.com/

Subscribe to the Triple P Podcast for conversations that help fire service professionals become Premier, Professional, and Proactive leaders.

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Property tax reform in Ohio is gaining serious momentum, but for fire departments, this isn’t just policy… it’s operational reality.

In this episode of the Triple P Podcast, hosts Clayton O’Brien sits down with David Thomas to break down what’s happening at the state level and what it means for fire chiefs, command staff, and departments that rely heavily on levy-based funding.

From levy fatigue to proposed reforms that could limit revenue growth, this conversation gets into the real-world impacts and long-term sustainability.

If your department depends on property tax funding, this is a conversation you can’t afford to miss.

Reach out to Representative David Thomas -
Website - https://www.ohiohouse.gov/members/david-thomas
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/friendsofdavidthomas
You tube- @davidthomasforohio
Tic Tok - David Thomas for Ohio

🔥 In This Episode:
What’s driving property tax reform in Ohio
The reality of levy fatigue across communities
Risks and unintended consequences of reform
What fire chiefs should be doing right now

🎯 Who This Is For:
Fire Chiefs
Command Staff
Company Officers
Municipal Leaders
Anyone involved in fire service funding and policy

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Premiere. Professional. Proactive.
We focus on real-world leadership, operations, and the issues shaping the fire service today.

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In this episode of the Triple P Podcast, we sit down with James Geering, host of the Behind the Shield Podcast, for a deep dive into one of the most talked-about topics in the fire service today: the 24/72 work schedule.

James brings a global perspective shaped by his experience in the fire service and conversations with some of the most respected voices in health, wellness, and performance. Together, we break down the operational realities, cultural resistance, and long-term health implications tied to traditional schedules—and why more departments are seriously evaluating a shift to 24/72.

This episode isn’t just theory. It’s a candid, experience-driven discussion on:

Firefighter sleep, recovery, and long-term health
Recruitment and retention impacts
Work-life balance in today’s fire service
Cultural barriers to change
What departments need to consider before making the transition

If you’re a fire chief, union leader, or firefighter thinking about the future of your department, this is a must-listen conversation that challenges the status quo while staying grounded in real-world application.

🔗 Learn more about James and his work: https://www.jamesgeering.com

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