Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple

This conversation with Matt was one of my favorites. I am endlessly fascinated by ritual. Why have humans, since seemingly the beginning of time, performed rituals? I want to understand the role ritual plays in my life, in my community, and in the world. I have wrestled with it. I have hated it. I have been transformed by it. I have come to deeply love it—and will likely cycle through all of those feelings many times throughout my life.
I’m convinced of ritual. I really am. Even more so after this conversation with Matt. In this episode, he walks us through the history of Christian ritual, how our relationship with ritual was profoundly transformed during the Reformation, and what Joseph Smith envisioned for the Saints when establishing something radically different in the 1830s.
We explore why people believe that Jesus “did away with the law of Moses,” where that phrase came from, and why so many Christians believe we have “outgrown” ritual. Matt invites us into a new way of understanding the purpose of our rituals, and I left the conversation feeling truly inspired to more fully embrace what we are doing in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Matthew Bowman was appointed the Howard W. Hunter Chair of Mormon Studies in 2019, with a joint appointment in History and Religion. He is a specialist in American religious history, with particular interests in Mormonism, new religious movements, UFOs, and the development of the concept of “religion” in the United States. Most recently, he is the author of Joseph Fielding Smith: A Mormon Theologian and The Abduction of Betty and Barney Hill: UFO Encounters, Civil Rights, and the New Age in America.
Finding Matthew’s books here.

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I was so grateful to have the pleasure to speak with Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife for this episode.. This conversation is another exploration of covenants, but from the framework of the stages of development. This episode begins with Jennifer introducing the three stages of development she describes in her work, and from there she helps us get a feel for how we might relate to God’s laws based on the current stage of development we are operating in. I love that Jennifer emphasizes that value of each stage, whilst also holding a vision for what is possible, both for the individual and the community. We planned to work through all of the covenants, but this ended up being a conversation largely on obedience and what it might look like to have an evolving relationship with it.
I myself have witnessed an evolution of how I relate to my faith and discipleship over the years, and this information has really helped me to better understand the developmental journey that I’m on, and to look forward to what it is I’m moving into. I feel it is so valuable to learn that there are new ways we might experience our faith and relationship with God.
This felt like a perfect moment to share this conversation as we are exploring obedience in Come, Follow Me this week. I hope you love it as much as I did.
Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife is an LDS relationship and sexuality coach with a Ph.D. in Counseling Psychology. She is the author of That We Might Have Joy: Desire, Divinity, and Intimate Love and the creator of six online courses that help individuals and couples create happier lives and stronger intimate relationships. She also hosts Room for Two, a popular sex and intimacy podcast, and is a regular guest on LDS-themed podcasts discussing relationships, faith, and sexuality.
Find Jennifer’s book here.
Find Jennifer’s courses and podcasts here.
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Gosh, I really can’t express how much I loved this conversation with George. It felt like a celebration of life—and an invitation to live and love it more fully. This conversation explores the five covenants we make in the temple, with particular emphasis on the first and the last: obedience and consecration. George shares his personal journey of coming to know the true God and of developing his own desire to offer his obedience to Him. We explore what true freedom is, the gift of our own weaknesses, and how to answer the call to a life of generosity and service. And that, perhaps, what becomes unveiled as we truly align ourselves with these divine laws is our ability to see just how precious and beautiful life really is.
George Handley has taught at BYU in the fields of humanities and environmental studies for the past 28 years. He and his wife, Amy are the parents of four children and grandparents of four little ones. He is an incredible writer. His books include Hope of Nature, If Truth Were a Child, American Fork, and Home Waters.
*Just a heads up, towards the beginning of this episode, George mentions his brother’s death by suicide and speaks to how that profoundly impacted his life and spiritual journey. Please be aware if this is something you are sensitive to.
Follow George on Substack here.
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This conversation with Jennifer was especially meaningful to me because it explores embodiment, a pillar of my personal spirituality. Jennifer beautifully explains how our ordinances teach us the necessity of embodiment in discipleship. We perform ordinances with our bodies to symbolize that the spiritual journey requires more than intellectual belief—it calls for our whole selves. As Jennifer says, “Salvation isn’t a mental assent to a concept”; it is a lived journey that engages body, heart, mind, and spirit.
I was deeply moved by how Christ-centered this conversation felt. Jennifer helps us see how the ordinances of the restored gospel invite us into the sacred process of “putting on Christ.” We discuss how our will and desires part the veil, allowing God’s power to flow into us and truly transform us. We also reflect on the garment of the holy priesthood as another profound symbol of embodiment—one that teaches us about our divine identity and mission.
I hope this conversation inspires you to embrace this incredible gift God is offering us with your whole self and ignites a fire in you to take part in this great work of gathering Israel. I know it did for me
Jennifer C. Lane is a professor emerita of Religious Education at BYU–Hawaii, where she taught for nearly twenty years and served as Dean and Associate Academic Vice President for Curriculum. She earned a PhD in Religion from Claremont Graduate University and holds MA and BA degrees from BYU. After returning to Provo with her husband, Keith, she served as a Neal A. Maxwell Research Associate at BYU’s Neal A. Maxwell Institute. She continues to research and write on temples, holiness, and discipleship and is the author of Let’s Talk about Temples and Ritual and Finding Christ in the Covenant Path: Ancient Insights for the Modern World.
Find Jennifer’s book, Finding Christ on the Covenant Path, which we referenced here.
Read Jennifer’s article “Embodied Knowledge of God” here.
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Jared Lambert is a historical linguist specializing in the ancient Near East and the Hebrew Bible. He is a former military linguist in the United States Army and previously served as the lead linguist over sacred materials for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, working directly with temple-related content. Jared holds multiple degrees across linguistics, history, and religious studies and is currently completing his PhD in historical linguistics. His work focuses on diachronic language development, temple theology, and the ways translation, symbolism, and later theological frameworks reshaped earlier biblical traditions, particularly surrounding covenant, priesthood, and the Divine Feminine. He teaches courses on biblical language and symbolism and creates public-facing content aimed at helping modern readers approach scripture with greater historical and linguistic clarity.
I was excited to sit down with Jared and hear his presentation on the creation story—especially as we’re just beginning the Old Testament in Come Follow Me, which opens with this account. Through a linguistic lens, Jared explores the ancient text’s etymological roots, revealing deeper meanings that resonate with both scientific and spiritual perspectives.
He shares powerful insights into Adam and Eve, the nature of God as understood by ancient Israelites, and a portrayal of God that closely resembles the one worshipped by Latter-day Saints today. Most impactful to me was his reinterpretation of Eve and the essential role she played in humanity’s story.
This conversation was fascinating and left me eager to learn more. We only scratched the surface of Jared’s work, and those interested can explore his classes, where he guides students on a linguistic journey through the scriptures. You can find a sign-up link in the show notes.
Sign up for Jared’s classes here
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This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org