Dharma Lab

Relationships can be one of the most powerful parts of the spiritual path because they reveal the parts of ourselves we cannot easily see alone. In this episode of Dharma Lab, Cortland Dahl and Richie Davidson are joined by meditation teachers and authors Devin and Nico Hase to explore how Buddhist practice can help us navigate love, conflict, vulnerability, appreciation, and repair. Drawing on their new book, This Messy, Gorgeous Love, they reflect on why relationships are inherently challenging, how they become mirrors for growth, and how simple practices like awareness, check-ins, and appreciation can turn partnership into a path of awakening.
Podcast Chapter List
0:00 Relationships are rough: using partnership as a spiritual path1:11 Introducing Devin and Nico Hase and This Messy, Gorgeous Love5:36 What can a monastic tradition teach us about relationships?7:05 Devin on translating Buddhist teachings into modern lay life9:53 Nico on bringing Dharma into the gritty reality of family and partnership11:29 Richie on family, feedback, and why Dharma must matter in real life15:23 Retreat, relationship, and why we can’t hide from ourselves18:04 Partners as teachers: what relationships reveal about us19:34 Nico on monastic ideals, friction, and freedom21:29 Richie on being exposed, seen, and changed by relationship22:16 Self-knowledge, co-regulation, and the dance of partnership23:36 Writing the book together and relationship as mirror25:07 Cort on intimacy, fear, and what love uncovered28:40 Relationships are rough: the myth of smooth sailing30:04 Vulnerability, exposure, and becoming resilient together31:21 Dukkha and the “bumpy ride” of partnership34:24 Appreciation, gratitude, and learning to see the good42:42 Conflict styles: volcanoes, diplomats, and dodgers52:19 The trance of nice: kindness, emotion, and authenticity55:12 Practical takeaways: check-ins, fun, and daily connection57:43 Final reflections on relationships, friendship, and the book’s wider relevance


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Dr. Richie Richard Davidson, Cortland Dahl, Dan Goleman Discussion
Chapter Summary:
00:05:51 — Dan Goleman returns from India and meets Richie Davidson at Harvard00:06:38 — Studying meditation in academia when the field dismissed it00:07:11 — Their careers diverge: journalism at the New York Times and neuroscience research00:08:08 — The Mind & Life Institute and first meetings with the Dalai Lama00:09:20 — Paul Ekman’s surprising transformation after meeting the Dalai Lama00:12:03 — Richie’s quiet strategy: exposing scientists to contemplative practice00:13:09 — The birth of a new generation of contemplative scientists00:14:37 — Cort Dahl discovers meditation research in graduate school00:16:10 — Jon Kabat-Zinn teaching yoga in a Harvard Square basement00:17:35 — “The after is the before for the next during” — meditation changes baseline states00:18:43 — The breakthrough 2004 meditation brain study00:20:26 — The Dalai Lama’s lifelong assignment to study and share these practices00:21:47 — Shifting psychology from pathology to human flourishing00:26:09 — Emotional intelligence as a path to well-being00:31:16 — Why practice—not theory—is what actually changes people00:32:37 — Cort Dahl’s experience with social crisis and emotional complexity00:35:31 — The Dalai Lama’s advice on skillfully working with anger00:38:28 — Two contemplative approaches to difficult emotions00:45:24 — “Feel what you are feeling” — a simple practice that changes awareness00:46:11 — Dan Goleman on Vipassana meditation00:47:10 — Scaling well-being beyond formal meditation practice00:50:04 — Mingyur Rinpoche after retreat: “the same, only more so”



This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dharmalabco.substack.com/subscribe

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dharmalabco.substack.com/subscribe

We are so honored to welcome Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche to another episode of Dharma Lab.
In today’s conversation with Cort and Richie, Rinpoche shares practical ways to stay present in a busy life: a powerful metaphor (“time is like a rubber band”), an “inner sky” teaching for working with anxiety and emotional storms, and a simple micro-practice you can try in under a minute.
They also explore why meditation can increase energy and effectiveness, how altruistic intention can transform stress into purpose, and what early research suggests about “flourishing” rippling outward into our families, workplaces, and communities.
Podcast Chapter List:
00:00 – Mingyur Rinpoche’s “32 projects” and the secret to steady energy00:27 – Why busyness pulls the mind into past/future (and out of the present)00:55 – How stress shows up in the body 01:14 – “Time is like a rubber band”: making practice fit real life03:13 – Retreat, discipline, and why highly productive people still practice deeply05:23 – The “inner sky”: storms of emotion don’t change awareness06:25 – The airplane rule: “Put your mask on first” (service without burnout)08:24 – Altruistic motivation: practicing for the benefit of others08:53 – Richie’s 2-minute post-meditation calendar practice (be more helpful today)09:56 – “Plugging into a power source”: curiosity, insight, and wisdom as fuel10:06 – The trap of endless wants/needs—and why it’s draining10:26 – Service as nourishment: turning a busy day into a meaningful day21:11 – Doomscrolling vs. creating space for wisdom and compassion24:50 – The science question: does flourishing ripple into systems and communities?25:25 – Mexico healthcare study with Atentamente (practice in the real world)26:35 – Randomized controlled trial results: wellbeing, care outcomes, productivity28:30 – 1-minute micro-practice with Mingyur Rinpoche: connect with the wish to be happy, and expanding that intention outward: love, compassion, and shared flourishing

In case you missed it, previous conversation with Rinpoche:
Cort and Richie’s new book is coming out in a few weeks! Pre-order Born to Flourish and get:
* 1 full year of paid access to Dharma Lab ($100 value) with weekly essays, research updates, podcasts, and member-only online events
* Live access to an exclusive Born to Flourish Launch Event
* Richie and Cort’s personal reading list on the art of flourishing
* A daily protocol for training the mind to flourish
Other posts referenced in this episode:


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Jon Kabat-Zinn joins Richie and Cort for a wide-ranging conversation on mindfulness, science, and what it means to fully inhabit your life.
From the launch of Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) in a hospital basement in 1979 to more than 1,000 scientific papers a year on mindfulness today, this episode traces how a simple practice entered mainstream medicine and reshaped the way we understand stress, healing, and human potential.
Along the way, the conversation moves from chronic pain and anxiety to awareness as a trainable capacity, the role of community, and why paying attention may be one of the most important skills of our time.
As Jon reflects, if you are missing this moment, what makes you think you will not miss the next?
This episode explores how mindfulness can extend beyond stress reduction toward living more deliberately, with clarity, compassion, and connection.
Podcast Chapter List:
00:00 – The Gateway: Stress, Burnout & Why We Come to Practice01:08 – Introducing Jon Kabat-Zinn & the Origins of MBSR05:12 – What Is Mindfulness? Dharma, Awareness & Human Potential09:07 – Why MBSR Started in a Hospital Basement18:39 – “They Gave You the Patients No One Could Help”19:58 – How Science and Contemplative Practice Came Together21:42 – The 2003 Randomized Controlled Trial That Changed the Field25:18 – Meeting People Where They Are: Anxiety as a Doorway26:28 – “Are You Your Diagnosis?” Identity & the Shift from Doing to Being30:11 – Why More People Meditate — But Many Still Struggle33:50 – Medicine for Humanity: Mindfulness in a Time of Crisis40:52 – Awareness as a Human Superpower45:00 – Flourishing Is Contagious (And Trainable)46:46 – Awe, Connection & Learning to Pay Attention47:59 – Not Missing Your Life: Thoreau, Walden, & Living Deliberately49:15 – A Rhapsody for Mindfulness
Cort and Richie’s new book is coming out in a few weeks! Pre-order Born to Flourish and get:
* 1 full year of paid access to Dharma Lab ($100 value) with weekly essays, research updates, podcasts, and member-only online events
* Live access to an exclusive Born to Flourish Launch Event
* Richie and Cort’s personal reading list on the art of flourishing
* A daily protocol for training the mind to flourish


This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dharmalabco.substack.com/subscribe