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Betrayal Trauma Recovery

Anne Blythe, M.Ed.
Betrayal Trauma Recovery
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  • Betrayal Trauma Recovery

    Emotional Abuse Checklist: What You Need To Know for Sure

    06/09/2026 | 42 mins.
    If you’re searching for an emotional abuse checklist, you’re looking for clarity. I’m an emotional abuse expert. My team has helped over 8,000 clients identify emotional abuse and thrive. And I’ve noticed that most victims of emotional abuse in marriage have been told, “You’re too sensitive,” or “You expect too much.” You’ve probably wondered, Is it me?

    Emotional abuse is often subtle. It hides in half-truths and conversations that never quite resolve. This emotional abuse checklist will give you a clear picture of the patterns. Because emotional abuse isn’t just isolated incidents. To learn more, take my free emotional abuse test.

    What Is Emotional Abuse?

    Emotional abuse is a pattern of behavior used to control, confuse, belittle, intimidate, or dominate another person. But it likely won’t feel that way. It’s usually not obvious yelling or cruelty.

    Many emotionally abusive men seem like really nice guys. That’s why having an emotional abuse checklist matters.

    Emotional Abuse Checklist

    Use this checklist to look for patterns. One isolated moment does not mean someone is emotionally abusive. Repeated patterns do.

    1. Chronic Lying

    Your husband lies about serious matters, such as:

    His whereabouts

    How he uses his time

    Money or financial decisions

    Porn use or masturbation

    Emotional or sexual affairs

    The real reasons for his actions

    When confronted, he minimizes, deflects, or becomes angry.

    2. Withholding Information

    He:

    Rarely shares his thoughts or feelings

    Says, “You wouldn’t be interested”

    Gives vague or incomplete answers

    Plays dumb when asked direct questions

    Refuses to provide financial transparency

    Withholds access to accounts or income details

    Walks out when discussions get serious

    Withholding is a way of controlling your perceptions.

    3. Discounting Your Thoughts and Feelings

    He says things like:

    “You’re too sensitive.”

    “You’re jumping to conclusions.”

    “You blow everything out of proportion.”

    “You always have something to complain about.”

    “Why do you always twist everything around.”

    “You’re looking for a fight.”

    He says your valid concerns are unreasonable.

    4. Mood Control

    He:

    Makes the house tense with his moods

    Refuses to acknowledge obvious problems

    Pretends everything is fine when it clearly isn’t

    Everyone adjusts to him.

    5. Disparages You, But Disguises It as A “Joke”

    He says:

    “You’re my ball and chain.”

    “You would get it if you were smarter.”

    “What else can you expect from a woman?”

    “Your blond is showing.”

    When you object, he responds:

    “You don’t have a sense of humor.”

    “You can’t take a joke.”

    Humiliation disguised as humor is still humiliation.

    6. Blocking Conversation

    He:

    Pretends not to hear you

    Looks at his phone while you talk

    Storms out mid-conversation

    Says, “The discussion is ended.”

    Rolls his eyes while saying, “Quit yakking.”

    Says “Who asked for your opinion?”

    Stonewalling is a control tactic.

    7. Financial Secrets

    When you ask about money, he says:

    “You have plenty.”

    “I’m not going through receipts.”

    “It’s too complicated for you.”

    “All you married me for is my money.”

    “Do I have to account for every penny?”

    He shifts accountability back onto you.

    8. False Accusations

    When you raise concerns, he says:

    “You don’t respect me.”

    “You don’t love me.”

    “You’ve never supported me.”

    “If you won’t have sex with me, who are you having it with?”

    He accuses you of things that aren’t true.

    9. Blame Shifting

    He says:

    “When you pester me, of course I get mad.”

    “I wouldn’t look at porn if you met my needs.”

    “I was going to do it, but not if you keep bugging me.”

    He blames his bad behavior on you.

    10. Character Attacks

    Instead of addressing issues, he says:

    “The trouble with you is…”

    “You’re stupid.”

    “Really? It’s like you’re never satisfied.”

    “You’re a bad mom.”

    “You don’t care about anyone.”

    He attacks your identity.

    11. Trivializing Accomplishments

    He minimizes your efforts:

    Makes sarcastic comments about your projects

    Dismisses your work as insignificant

    Claims shared ownership of what you built alone

    You feel small instead of supported.

    12. Undermining the Family

    He:

    Prioritizes his wants over family needs

    Disappears for hours or days

    Leaves you to manage all responsibilities

    Makes decisions without considering impact

    The family orbits around his desires.

    13. “Forgetting” or Denying Reality

    He says:

    “I never said that.”

    “You’re making that up.”

    “We never had that conversation.”

    “You’re upset about nothing.”

    This is gaslighting.

    Over time, you question your memory.

    14. Ordering and Demanding

    He says:

    “Get rid of this.”

    “You’re not wearing that.”

    “Shut that off.”

    He commands rather than collaborates.

    15. Subtle Threats

    He says:

    “If you act like that, I’m going to…”

    “When you do that, it makes me very angry.”

    “If you won’t meet my needs, I get depressed.”

    Threats do not have to be overt to be effective.

    16. Anger as Control

    He:

    Yells

    Glares

    Punches walls

    Throws objects

    Gets inches from your face

    Unpredictable anger creates fear.

    Emotional Abuse Checklists Don’t Always Include The Subtle Signs

    Many people imagine abuse as screaming and violence. But emotional abuse is often quiet. Controlled. Strategic.

    It can look like kindness or even indifference. It can look like charm in public and cruelty in private.

    That invisibility is what makes an emotional abuse checklist so important.

    Emotional abusers often:

    Groom their partners with affection and charm

    Alternate between warmth and coldness

    Appear generous to others

    Build a public image of “good guy”

    The contrast creates cognitive dissonance.

    You may trust him more than you trust yourself.

    Healing begins when you rebuild trust in your own perception.

    What To Do If This Emotional Abuse Checklist Feels Familiar

    The confusion, grief, and destabilization of emotional abuse can feel overwhelming. No woman should process it alone.

    Betrayal Trauma Recovery offers daily Group Sessions in multiple time zones where women can:

    Share experiences safely

    Learn practical emotional safety strategies

    Rebuild trust in themselves

    Gain clarity without pressure

    You can also get more education about emotional abuse. Listen to The Betrayal Trauma Recovery Podcast

    Transcript: Emotional Abuse Checklist: How to Know for Sure

    Anne: We have a member of our community sharing her story today. We’re going to call her Macie. I’m so thankful to all of you who have shared your story. It takes a lot of courage, and it humbles me to hear your stories and I appreciate you.

    Macie is a single mom. And let’s start with your story. Did you recognize your husband’s abusive behaviors at first?

    Macie: I did not. I actually did not recognize or was even made aware. I just thought our marriage was normal, happy, healthy, that he was such a great guy. And one of the most selfless people I had ever met. And that was pretty difficult when I started to understand what my marriage really was.

    He had texted that he wanted a divorce. And not knowing the magnitude of his betrayal and all those choices that he was making. Just the stonewalling, the communication dysfunction, the emotional abuse is so hard. But in my mind, that was not even possible. And because of the type of abuse.

    It was the withdrawal and not communicate, control that way. Versus the yelling or control by physical demeaning. It was never like that ever. So the emotional abuse is so hard to see until I actually had the truth of the whole story. To see, oh, now I can tell where the manipulation and the blame shifting and all that was taking place.

    Anne: This type of abuse, it’s not overt. Not like screaming and yelling in your face. And people don’t have the education to see it, and many therapists don’t. You’re in this relationship and you don’t know what’s going on, but you know something’s wrong.

    Why Emotional Abuse Is So Confusing

    Anne: During that time, what types of things did you do to try to establish safety and peace in your home before you found out about the pornography use and infidelity?

    Macie: Again, we had what I thought was a healthy, happy marriage. I feel like a lot of it was, a lot of communication with the children. We both were on the same page about talking to them about pornography. We agreed we wanted to talk to them about it, just like we did drugs or alcohol or anything else. And we both come from families where we have a predisposition for addiction.

    And so we would explain to them, it didn’t matter what. It could be something. We don’t know what it is, so we need to abstain from many things, including pornography. So I feel like we would check in as a family a lot. We had a really open communication about sex, about social media. We had our kids sign contracts, phones were away.

    I feel like there was a lot of communication within the home surrounding specifically pornography. Which I feel like is ironic, now I know the truth of what he did. I do feel like that even on a spiritual level, we pray as a family, go to church, that aspect too of having the spirit with you. So those were some of the things we did. The emotional abuse is so hard now, understanding that he viewed pornography and violated my home.

    which of the following is true about emotional abuse​?

    Anne: Mm hmm. You’re talking about explicit media, you’re talking about healthy sexuality, thinking he is on the same page with you. And really, it was all just a facade. Emotional abuse is so hard. Did you have any sense then, like deep down, that something was wrong? Or did everything seem fine to you? I mean so many women are wondering, “Which of the following is true about emotional abuse​?”

    Macie: A year into our marriage, granted we got married in the 90s when the internet was really early. So I found pornography, and at that point I felt super hurt, betrayed and cheated on. But I feel like I never saw or knew of any pornography use from him until the actual discovery of his work phone. But I would have kind of this underlying insecurity. Because there was a lot of lying going on. And I never could pinpoint the purpose.

    And I learned that a part of the abuse blamed me for his lies. Because my reaction would be so much that I would maybe get too angry. So he was justified in lying to me. And it just didn’t make sense. Some of the things he would lie to me about. And I do feel like there was a lack of empathy and emotional disconnect, especially in our communication.

    I now see that there was a lot of withdrawal, and it took withdraw, withdraw, and then I’d finally corner him to communicate. Even if it was just me feeling overwhelmed or stressed or that I needed extra help. And it ended up an explosion, and then that’s where it led towards the end to the stonewalling.

    Emotional abuse is so hard: Financial Control & Lies

    Macie: I had to literally text him in the home to say, hey, can you meet with me so that we can talk? And I didn’t want to overwhelm him with a conversation too long, so extremely unhealthy. There were also situations with money that didn’t make sense. But he was in charge of the finances. And when I tried to get involved, he didn’t want me to. But then it was a problem that I wasn’t involved.

    So again, I see that he had control over that money, and he could do a lot of the things he did. Because I was not aware yet. He blamed me for not knowing what was going on. I read some emotional abuse quotes, but they were usually about yelling or saying “You’re stupid” so they didn’t seem to apply to me. ​And several gaps in time, he traveled a lot. He missed many flights. Or they bumped him. And again, it was him saying, hey, I’m getting bumped. So we can have a flight that we can use later for us. But really, he used it for other purposes, and disregard for me.

    I did not feel like a priority, and I had an injury experience. I think that was the first time I realized how unempathetic he was to me. He just looked at me like I’m leaving town and had a broken ankle. He’s like, I’m out of here for the week and good luck. And I just cried thinking how can this be possible? Emotional abuse is so hard. But I still didn’t want to leave my emotionally abusive husband.

    Understanding emotional abuse

    Macie: I have these busy children, and what is going on? I felt like he had changed, but I could never pinpoint it. I feel like if I tried to ask questions, it was always I’m this simple person. It’s you, and so I just knew I had to work hard on me all the time. Because everything was falling apart because of me. He was simple and didn’t require a lot, and he wasn’t mean and angry at me. And he just laid low and kept the peace.

    He wanted me to tell him what to do, then he couldn’t mess up and I wouldn’t get upset. I did not like that dynamic in our marriage either. Because I felt like this dominant person, but I want to be a team though. I want to work together. Well again, with the withdrawal and communication. When I tried to muster up the courage to talk to him, it would end with me feeling like I don’t value him. And how hard he works, and all the things he does around the house. And I just need to be content with how things are.

    I now see how sad I was not even allowed, or feel like I could even cry in our relationship. Like to him that it was that emotionally disconnected for me. I gave him all I was: my good, my bad, my stress, my anxiety, wanting to work with him together as a union. Then to see that, not only that, but also to see that he used my strengths against me to do what he wanted to do. Each episode of emotional abuse is so hard to see. When I understood the truth of the emotional abuse and saw that was what he was doing.

    Emotional Abuse Quotes​ Didn’t Help

    Anne: Many people don’t understand that stonewalling and not talking about things are forms of controlling the conversation. And people will think, well, he just can’t talk about his emotions, or now’s not the right time. Those type of abusive behaviors are controlling. They’re controlling the conversation, they’re controlling the way you can communicate. And that makes it very difficult, emotional abuse is so hard.

    You can’t be on the same team when one person’s goal is to shut things down, and make sure she doesn’t find out about things. He’s gaslighting you, and so you’re thinking, well, the problem is me, so I need to love, serve and forgive more. When did you realize that this isn’t working? Did you ever get a sense before he filed for divorce? That, man, I am loving, serving, forgiving, and things just aren’t getting that much better.

    Macie: I wasn’t googling, “What are the 7 signs of emotional abuse?” Or looking for an emotional abuse checklist because I didn’t even think of that. ​I would go to him with a pad of paper and have him give me a list of things that I would need to work on. And I was just trying to love him more and value him more at work, and never ask questions when he traveled.

    I do feel like he used those things again. I’m going through therapy working on me, and instead it helped him do what he wanted better.

    Discovering His Lies Was Just One Emotional Abuse Example

    I mean, he lived two lives. So it made it easier to be like, well, okay, now I’m a good husband and a great dad. And so she’s happy, Which means she’s not going to question any of this other behavior. So it wasn’t until actual discovery that I realized his layer of lies was actually to get what he wanted. And that was really disturbing for me. Emotional abuse is so hard. Especially when you look at 21 years, you know?

    Anne: So you’ve got this marriage where something’s not quite right, you’re working harder, you’re trying. Tell me how you found the work phone. Talk about what led up to that, that day.

    Macie: I think that was one of the things you talk about little red flags, things going off. I did feel like he was being unfaithful. I felt like pornography was involved, but simultaneously I trusted him. He was a spiritual person. So to me whenever I had those feelings, I thought I must be the worst person for even assuming or thinking any of these thoughts.

    And as I worked, I believed he was also working on our marriage together. Because he didn’t want to go to couples therapy. We’re both individually working on ourselves. And one of the things was to make a date night together or spend more time together, but there were still some inconsistencies there. And I felt like I was definitely pulling more of the weight.

    Unfortunately, on Christmas morning at two in the morning, I happened to just roll over. And saw his phone, and I could see the truth of a conversation he had with a girl he had been on the phone with through the night.








    Discovering the Betrayal Was Emotional Abuse

    Macie: And again, the betrayal of understanding the truth, I thought Christmas Eve was dedicated to the family and us. The truth is he was communicating with this person. He had been with her the week previous. He was planning to be with her after. But additionally, it wasn’t just her. When I went out of that conversation, just to see the magnitude of all that was on his phone was unbelievable and overwhelming. Emotional abuse is so hard.

    I could not even believe he was capable of that, this was the same person? It was unfortunate, because of Christmas morning. I mean, that’s a day you celebrate every year, and you have so many memories attached. So I had to keep it together. I chose not to say anything. I wanted my children to experience Christmas morning as the best it could be.

    Because I was super emotional, which again, as I talked about in our relationship, in our marriage, we had to be okay. So my kids didn’t see me cry ever. And so when mom’s emotional and crying, they’re like, what is going on? But Christmas morning happened.

    Mental vs Emotional Abuse

    Macie: We spent time with family. And it wasn’t until later that I actually confronted him. And everything exploded from there. My goal was to wait until the next day. But that just didn’t really happen. And so it is unfortunate for my children that I feel like a day that we celebrate, and you have memories that will never go away.

    It’s like, how was your Christmas? Because that was the question following the discovery that I would get asked by every person. And it’s like, do you want to know the truth about how my Christmas was? How was your Christmas? So it was just that constant trigger.

    Anne: It’s very traumatic for it to happen on holidays. It’s terrible. Emotional abuse is so hard. Hopefully, this Christmas can be the anniversary of your freedom.

    Macie: Yes, and I’ve talked with the kids. So how do we embrace? I do feel like the kids triggers are different than mine. And just because their life circumstances and memories are different, and also what they know. But I feel like we’ve talked openly about what we can do, and I am really happy for them that Christmas, even Christmas morning, was great.

    I think the difference changed in Christmas break for them. And that will be interesting to see how to deal with that. Because mom and dad never fought. And now dad’s arguing, and he’s this new person that we’ve never seen before with this anger. So it was a confusing time for them. And then he moved out, and again, they were confused. Like mom and dad don’t fight, and now dad’s moving out.

    More Helpful Quotes on Emotional Abuse

    Macie: It was for them because the emotional abuse is so hard for them to process what was going on.

    Anne: And shocking, probably

    Macie: Shocking, absolutely shocking.

    Anne: You’re an amazing, smart, capable woman who is able to plan and make things happen, who graduated from college. Like, you’re no dummy. And same thing with me, and same thing with all the women who listen to Betrayal Trauma Recovery. We are capable, amazing, brave, strong women. Can you tell me your thoughts on that now that you know what you went through?

    Macie: Yeah, that’s a great point. I actually get asked a lot. Did you really not ever know? Like, you had no idea. And I am almost embarrassed to say I didn’t. And a lot of that was that I trusted so much in him. But I did not allow myself to trust in myself. Like, when I had my own doubts, I discounted it so easily because of my trust in him.

    I also think because of the type of abuse, he’s not this loud yelling person. Like I feel like emotional abuse is so hard to wrap your mind around the idea of abuse being the ability to not communicate. Like you said, his control was lack of communicating information to me. I didn’t ever know exactly what was going on.

    Sometimes even for work, I didn’t know exactly what he was doing. And I felt like those were his lay low, just kind of keep the peace, keep her happy enough. But made it really hard for me to say, well, no, I was not in an abusive situation.

    Compounding Lies & Realization He Was An Example of emotional abuse

    Macie: He never came at me. He was supportive to me, and would even encourage me to do things. He never said a mean thing to me ever. How am I in an abusive situation? And. I think that’s when it goes back to the lies. I just see there were so many lies. And over time, and even when he would lie to me, and I would forgive him, then it would happen again. And I felt like it was this compound of lies that I was just trying to process. Like, why are you lying to me about this? If you’re lying to me about this, what else is there?

    Anne: You’re saying, he never said a mean thing to me. But he did, he told you it was your fault. He told you that something was wrong with you. That is cruel. But it doesn’t feel mean, because you think it’s your fault. So many women say that. Oh, he was nice. And I’m thinking, that’s the meanest thing you could do to someone, is tell them that they’ve got a problem when it’s your problem.

    Macie: I have told him that he did financially, physically, spiritually, emotionally, like all the betrayal choices he made that harm our family. The one that is the most hurtful are the times he saw me depressed. He saw me feel inadequate. And he saw me crying and I had come to him asking what it is, what’s wrong and what’s going on? He knew what he was doing, but allowed me to believe it was me. And that is so hurtful. It was like a dagger to the heart.

    Manipulation is Covert Emotional Abuse

    Macie: And then to take my strengths. Like I’m a hard worker, I want to do hard things and fix things. I would help try to problem solve with him. He was so tired. So it’d be like what’s going on? Well now I know it’s because he was out all night long, he was never sleeping. But I’m thinking what’s going on? How can we problem solve? And he would just allow me to try to help fix things. And I was running on this treadmill that was spinning so fast.

    I see where had we gone to couple’s therapy, I would have sat there and been like, I’m doing all these things wrong and I need to work harder. It would not have been healthy. I know you’re familiar with Darvo.

    Anne: Yeah, really quick with Darvo we have some amazing infographics that circulate around our social media on Instagram and Facebook. So if you’re not following us there, please do, because I love to interact with women on social media and hear your comments. So if you do follow us, please comment. Let me know what you think of those infographics and if they’re helpful to you.

    Macie: When I look at that, it makes more sense to me. Because I would approach him with something that didn’t make sense. And then he would attack me as if like, he couldn’t believe I would believe that. He would defend himself and no, no, no. And then I’d start to feel guilty that I was accusing him or curious or insecure about something.

    Emotional abuse is so hard: No Validation, Just Blame

    Macie: Then it would turn around. He became the victim. And suddenly, I was the bad person, because I had come to him to communicate. The communication started with me and ended with me being the bad person. I’d walk away being like, how is this that I just went to him to see how I need help. That I am struggling? Yet I come away feeling like I’m an ungrateful wife. I don’t value him and recognize all the things he’s doing, so it would just come back to me.

    Then I’d say, okay, what can I do to make it so that he knows that I value and respect all these things, yet I didn’t feel safe. I didn’t trust him. I didn’t feel like I was a priority and was not validated. Instead, it was well, that’s your fault. That’s your fault that you feel that way. I’m a simple person. Like literally he would say to me so often, I am a simple person and I do not require a lot where you dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.

    Anne: You’re like, no, you actually require texting seven women, so no, you are very, very complex.

    Macie: Yes, I do not know how he was able to organize all that, honestly.

    Anne: So for you, what is one of the most difficult aspects looking back on your marriage now that you know the truth about the abuse?

    Macie: I know he knew the truth of what he did. I got to a point where I was so down and depressed that I actually had to go into a surgery.

    Feeling like I needed to go

    Macie: In my mind, I had made a deal with God that I just needed to be taken. My life to be done, because that was, to me, the easiest way to remove myself from the emotional abuse is so hard, and the situation of my kids having to deal with divorce. And that I was this problem. That if I could just remove myself, then everybody would be so much better off.

    And I left letters for my kids to read. In my mind, I was totally content with being done. And when I came out of surgery, I knew that I was going to fight, I was going to fight for my family, and I was going to do everything I could. And when I found out the truth that, while I was in surgery. He had taken money from our retirement and was putting it in a bank account for a woman he was financially supporting.

    That to me just blew my mind that I was ready to be done with my life. I was crying on my way up, he knew I was hurting, that I felt so bad about myself, yet he continued that behavior. And that was my low, low point in recognition. Wow, you put those two pieces together, and you see there was a major disconnect. It’s hard, because I know that there were so many lies in our marriage. Emotional abuse is so hard for me to believe anything was ever true.

    I believed it was good and there were some good times, but I now know that those good times were the buttering up so that he could keep me happy enough. Signing up for a girl’s trip for me, oh, what a great husband. And that’s so nice.

    Grooming Is Emotional Abuse Too

    Anne: But the truth was it was grooming. It’s what it was. He was grooming you on purpose to throw you off his scent.

    Macie: Yeah, that is so hurtful. I got so duped in believing this person loved me, when I don’t believe there was love in this marriage. How did that happen? And how did I not know? So trying to make sense of how as a smart, capable, independent, person, I thought I had a healthy marriage. How did I miss so much? To not know that that wasn’t love that was happening in my marriage? I felt like I was loving and giving. But it was not reciprocated. And that is emotional abuse is so hard to understand.

    Anne: Yeah, but it was just for him like a cover. For you, you were his facade.

    Macie: It blows my mind that he is still the victim.

    Anne: Pornography is abusive. But then he had all these other abusive behaviors. The control of the conversation, you’ve got sexual coercion going on because he’s not telling you that he’s having sex with other people. You know, there’s so much going on there that is seriously sexually abusive, which is physical abuse. So technically, your husband physically, emotionally, sexually and psychologically abused, And people just can’t comprehend that level of abuse.

    Macie: Right, it’s mind blowing to believe, like you said, as the person I know I am. That I lived that, believing it was healthy. Like I looked at my parents and their relationship, so in my mind, I was aiming to try to do that. Even though I felt like in my communication to him. I didn’t feel like we were a team.

    emotional abuse is so hard: Spiritual Journey & Reflection

    Macie: I felt like I was more dominant, because I tried to get him to help or communicate with me. I felt like I was constantly chasing him to try to get him to communicate with me.

    Anne: He wanted you to do that. He liked that because you were taking the responsibility for the entire relationship in that case.

    Macie: I was already doing everything.

    Anne: So, during this time, you consider yourself a spiritual person. You’re having prayers with your husband, you’re attending church, you’re reading the scriptures. Then you find out that God has not expressly told you in so many words, you’re in an abusive relationship. You realize that for 21 years, you were not privy to the truth. How did that affect your relationship with God?

    Macie: Yeah, that’s a great question. For me, there were a lot of moments along the way. As I’ve reflected on the truth. Where I can see God’s hand to protect me and even prepare me in certain ways. I had an injury that happened that at the time. My husband traveled all the time. And I was devastated. My children were extremely busy. I felt helpless and felt like, why did this happen? This is so frustrating for me. Could I have not had some inspiration to not go?

    It was playing softball, and I slid into third and broke my ankles. Could I have not had something to not do that? But I now see looking back that that was in many ways, God’s way of making me stop In my tracks.

    God’s Hand in Protection & Strength Through Adversity

    Macie: Because there were times when I felt red flags, but I never followed through with it. I just discounted it, but then I stopped and actually looked at my life. And started to see the truth of what it really was. I can’t deny that I felt God so present in my life. Not saying, hey, you’re in this abusive relationship.

    But I even lost my mom. She died of cancer when I was a teenager. And I feel like even that experience prepared me to have some different strength and perspective that I even taught my kids that helped prepare for this heartache. You know, and understanding, and so I can see where, even through the divorce, there were several things that came my way.

    And to come across Betrayal Trauma Recovery specifically. Because as you know, sometimes when you’re in it, sometimes a normal therapist, you’re just not getting the right information. So getting the right resources. And I feel like all those things were huge blessings. God blessing me and blessing my children and giving me strength as a mom.

    Just giving myself a little leeway. This emotional abuse is so hard, I’ve had to lean on other people, and that’s been a hard thing. But I’ve been so appreciative. I’m so thankful for your resources through BTR. It’s amazing, I just cannot get enough information.

    Trusting in God and Self

    Macie: I believe God knows me better than myself. Even though what I’m going through seems unfair, I look around me and see so many people going through unfair situations. And I’m thankful for believing in something bigger than myself, that helps give me strength.

    And I also feel like trusting in myself as I move forward in my life. Because my husband betrayed me and I don’t trust myself. I’m working through that, and that’s why I’m thankful for all your resources to validate what I’m feeling. And to build me and help me move forward as a broken, strong warrior.

    Anne: Healing, a healing strong warrior, and you will. Thank you so much for sharing your story today,

    Macie: Thanks for having me.

    The Emotional Abuse Checklist You Need

    Anne: Is emotional abuse considered domestic violence? Yes, emotional abuse is considered domestic violence. A domestic violence survivor will share her story with us today. And we’re going to explain why. Because it’s important to understand why emotional abuse is considered domestic violence. In fact, I think it’s the most important one, because physical violence never occurs without emotional abuse.

    So if everyone can learn to recognize emotional abuse and protect themselves from it. Your chances of physical harm go down drastically. To illustrate how emotional abuse is domestic violence. My book Trauma Mama Husband Drama. really helps, because it is an actual picture book. There are a ton of infographics in the back that illustrate this type of domestic violence and explain why emotional abuse is domestic violence.

    It’s an extremely quick read. So if you have people around you that are having a difficult time wrapping their heads around what you’re going through, this book is the perfect way to educate them. You can find Trauma Mama Husband Drama on this link, which is my books page. It’ll just take you to Amazon. You can also find it on Amazon.

    When you purchase it, circle back around and give it a five star rating, because so many women are searching for books, and they find, The Five Love Languages or Men are From Mars, books that are not helpful. So if you rate it, it’ll help women find this podcast. Which is free to everyone, even if they never purchased the book. All right.

    Evie’s Story: When you Can’t prove emotional abuse in court​

    Anne: Now, let’s get to Evie’s story. Welcome.

    Evie: Thank you so much for having me. I come from a small town, so I met my husband. i had no idea his behavior was the classic example of emotional abuse. All the emotional abuse checklists I’d seen before didn’t have the subtle types of emotional abuse on them. Isolation is huge, but that was the first big hurdle he didn’t have to cross. Because I didn’t have any family or friends in this new state. Already I was vulnerable, just because I didn’t know anybody. And so it’s so much harder when your gut tells you one thing. And you don’t have anybody else that you trust to bounce those thoughts and feelings off of.

    Initially, there were a lot of silent red flags in our relationship. He was jealous. That didn’t sit well with me. He was very quick to say things like, I love you. And I remember he said I was like, oh. I don’t feel that way yet. It’s been like a month or two. This is very fast. He reacted negatively to the fact that I wouldn’t say it back. And I was like, I just don’t want to lie to you.

    So things like love bombing at the beginning. It made it that much harder when the love bombing stopped. Because he yanked that away from me. And suddenly it went from, wow, at the beginning of a relationship. All he could do was shower me with compliments and say how much he loved me. And now I’m not getting any of that.

    Is emotional abuse considered domestic violence?

    Evie: And so things like that were really big, and arguing with him was very hard. He would make me feel like I overreacted to everything, and that my reactions were not valid. And that he didn’t say or do whatever was brought up. And then I also felt very intimidated.

    He reminded me about other women he dated. And things he did to them when they left him. And so I remember only a couple months in. He let me know the ways he hurt other women. If I leave, what is he going to do to me?

    Anne: Were you aware of any exploitative material?

    Evie: I definitely knew that that was a thing for him.

    Anne: Did you find that to be a example of emotional abuse, or was it like, “Oh, everybody does this?” How did you feel about it at the time?

    Evie: Yeah, I don’t know that was something that was at the forefront of my mind.

    Anne: So you weren’t concerned about the pornography use. That wasn’t necessarily a red flag for you. For me it’s important for women to understand that emotional abuse and infidelity go hand in hand. It’s interesting to me because women who exploitative material is an issue for them. They don’t recognize, that emotional abuse is considered domestic violence? Maybe or the psychological abuse. When they find out about the use, they know something’s wrong, because they know this is a person who has told me he’s not going to use it. So the level of lying there gets intense, but he was lying to you about other things?

    Financial Abuse is An Example of Emotional Abuse

    Evie: Definitely, I found out he cheated on me, and I think I had always had that in the back of my mind. When that came out, that was huge for me, and there was some financial abuse, it was emotionally abusive as well. I was always very proud of my career and the fact that I was the first person in my family to graduate and get a degree. So when he put my career in jeopardy, that was the biggest red flag that this was a classic example of emotional abuse. I just wish I had the right emotional abuse checklist at the time, like yours.

    When I was with him, he took my voice away in more ways than one. And one of those was that he would constantly criticize my writing and wouldn’t let me keep journals. And so I turned to writing and sharing my story to start healing and find my voice after emotional abuse.

    Anne: Domestic abuse and domestic violence are interchangeable. Someone can be an emotionally violent abuser without ever laying a finger on their victim. I frequently say domestic abuse rather than domestic violence. Just so women who haven’t been hit or punched don’t think, oh, this isn’t for me because I haven’t been physically harmed.

    And also, many people don’t realize that emotional abuse is a domestic abuse issue. It is under the umbrella of domestic violence. It’s also very typical that it never escalates to physical abuse.

    Emotional Abuse vs. Physical Abuse

    That’s when women also get very confused. Because they try to figure out what’s wrong. At least for me and so many other victims that I know, they went through years of emotional and psychological abuse where they couldn’t quite figure it out.

    And then once a violent act happened. It helped them see what was happening. So I try to help them identify emotional abuse vs psychological abuse is important. To do that you need to have examples of emotional abuse.

    Evie: Yeah, the emotional abuse vs psychological abuse was important to figure out. The stonewalling and gaslighting have left a toll on me. It’s still something that I’m trying to heal from every day. It’s one of those things where some days I’ll be great, “Oh yeah, my gut was right. This is not okay.” And some days it comes back full force. And I will have the negative self talk in my head.

    Sharing Examples of Emotional Abuse is Healing

    I shared my story in your community, so it was in front of a supportive audience. I was able to talk about my experience in your community who say, Hey, yeah, me too, because there’s so much power in knowing that you’re not going through something alone. And knowing that you can heal and grow alongside people.

    I was fortunate enough to find a community which I clicked with. There were three things that I appreciated. One of them was the power to share my story, get my voice back, and share my truth and not feel suppressed. And the second one was connecting with all these other survivors. I think community was huge.

    My experience, which was validated, and helped me know that I wasn’t alone. Because it’s so easy to think, wow, this doesn’t happen to anyone else. So knowing there were other women, and for me, they were all older than me. And I was the youngest one going through it at the time. It was great. And then the third thing I got out of it was education. I’m originally from a very small town. And had my story happened back in my small hometown, I would have had that same opportunity.

    And so It was great to share. No matter where I was, as long as I had internet access. I think those three pieces are huge stepping blocks for any survivor.

    Anne: Now, I can tell from the way you’re talking that you like the word survivor, which is awesome. I prefer the word victim.

    What is Considered Emotional Abuse?

    And I’ll tell you why. not saying this to convince you or anyone else. But the reason why I like the word victim is because survivor to me feels like you survived the Titanic or something, right? Like, you got off the Titanic, and the Titanic sank, and you made it to shore, and you survived. The harm is over, but with emotional abuse and domestic violence it may continue because you share children.

    And because I share children with the man who is emotionally and psychologically abusive to me, I’m actually, literally constantly a victim. Literally, I’m still technically victimized. I’m still lied about, I’m still harmed through things he says. When I say victims, what I want to say is that women can protect themselves, even though the harm could still occur because they share children or for whatever circumstance.

    And so the reason I don’t like to call myself a survivor is because I’m like, I haven’t survived anything. I’m still struggling through this as safe as possible with the boundaries I have. What are your thoughts about that, as you’ve talked with other survivors?

    Evie: Yeah, I think labels are important for people. You know, many people want to go by thriver too. I think it is a popular word that’s surfacing in the survivor community. But yeah, labels are personal for people, so I think whatever you want to identify as, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. It’s your story, and however you want to be identified, that is okay.

    Anne: Yeah, I agree. I feel like you can thrive, you can survive. And I’m not sure if I will say I’m technically a victim forever. And actually I’m pretty happy and grateful to have the boundaries that I have.

    When You’re Looking For Counselors for Emotional Abuse​

    Anne: The Living Free strategies can protect you. I still call myself a victim because he’s still abusive. Luckily, with the strategies, I can completely protect myself and my kids now.

    As you know, if you listen to this podcast, sharing stories is what this podcast is about. So if you’re interested in sharing your story, one option is to share it here on the Betrayal Trauma Recovery Podcast. If you’re interested in sharing your story, please contact podcast@btr.org. As women think about sharing, what are some safety tips you would recommend?

    Is emotional abuse considered domestic violence: Safety Tips for Sharing Your Story

    Evie: I think it’s important to listen to your intuition and figure out what is a safe audience for you. Maybe you tell a best friend, and if that goes well. Then you tell a family member, and if that goes well, maybe you tell your circle of friends. I think it’s really important to note that we don’t always get the response we’re hoping for especially with emotional abuse.

    I told some family members, and I thought I would get support and love, and that didn’t happen. And it’s okay to go at your own pace. If you tell someone and you don’t get a reaction that you should, that’s not on you. That’s on them. And if you want to take a break from sharing your story, then take a break.

    But if you want to keep sharing your story, keep looking for safe outlets to do so. Tell other survivors. I think that’s important. You know, those can be great ways to share your story. Because you’re sharing it with someone and people who do understand, because they’ve been through something similar. They’ll know how to support you and love you.

    And so I think those baby steps are important. And if you want to get your story out there to a bigger audience. Yeah, sharing on your podcast is one way to do that. You get to share your truth anonymously. You’re also protected. You do a great job. Because you don’t have to connect your name with your story. You can share your story anonymously and still feel like you’re getting your voice out there.

    Using Pseudonyms for Protection

    It’s really just listening to your gut and figuring out, what do I need from sharing my story? And I know for me personally it was, I need to get my voice back.

    Anne: Every woman on this podcast uses a pseudonym for her own protection. Before I started this podcast, I was actually public speaking about what was happening with my abuser, thinking he was in recovery from addiction. We used our real names and spoke publicly at addiction recovery conferences.

    When I discovered all those lies that I accidentally promoted someone as a great guy, when he was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I felt devastated. That was really, really hard for me to deal with. Having had the experience of using my real name and then doing this, I definitely chose to use a pseudonym so that I don’t have to go through that again, because that was awful. So that is one thing that I recommend for victims is to use a pseudonym. It’s helpful to keep you safe.

    Evie: Yes, absolutely.

    Anne: I don’t think many non-survivors listen to this podcast. If they do, thank you. I’m honored by you listening. Mostly the people that listen here are current victims of emotional abuse in marriage.








    The Best Emotional Abuse Support Groups​

    Anne: Why do you think it’s important to hear these examples of emotional abuse?

    Evie: It’s so important. I’m just trying to make sure that if there is one person out there hearing my story, who needs to hear what I’m saying. That’s who my audience is. Because whether they’re not a survivor, or they are, and they just don’t want to come to terms with that yet. I think it’s so important to ensure that we’re just spreading our truth.

    Anne: Yeah, that is a risky endeavor, to start sharing. The cool thing about when you start sharing is that you’ll know pretty quickly if it’s a safe situation or not. You can dip your toe in the water a little bit and see, is it safe to share with this person, with this group, or with these people? And you’ll know pretty quickly if it’s safe or not. And if it’s not safe, you can just back away.

    healing from emotional abuse​

    Anne: The Betrayal Trauma Recovery Living Free Workshop will teach you how to know if someone is safe or not. So, if you’re struggling with that right now, the BTR Living Free Workshop will help. Okay. Now back to years ago, Anne.

    And then the more you share and assess your emotional safety, the more you can identify a safe group. I think probably in your case, but I’m not sure. Don’t let me put words in your mouth if this is not the case. That now you feel like your support system, not just the other survivors you’re around, but also your friends and the people you interact with, feel safe for you. Is that the case?

    Evie: Oh, absolutely.

    Anne: Yeah, and you’ve developed that over time. So that’s awesome. And that’s what can come from reaching out and starting to share. Has anyone seemed safe at first, and then proved not safe?

    Evie: Yeah, I think that was particularly true with my family, you know, their family. And so obviously they get a little bit deeper level of initial trust and love from you. It’s just so important to have the right emotional abuse recovery

    That almost hurt the most for me. Because certain family members helped me when I needed to move out. And then later on kind of used my story against me and made me the black sheep of the family. But, as hard as that was, I’m in a good place now where I’m definitely setting healthier boundaries and able to understand what is acceptable respect and love from people. And it’s never easy to cut toxic family members out of your life.

    emotional abuse how to heal​

    Anne: Yep, the longer you go with either no abuse happening in your life anymore. Or in my case, the longer I set pretty strict boundaries to keep me safe from the harm, the stronger we get. In healing from emotional abuse and domestic violence the most important factor is distance from the abuse.

    And I highly recommend that women join a network of support, like Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group, for example. That runs multiple times a day in every woman’s time zone, which is awesome. I talked to someone the other day. He said, oh, so BTR is a women’s empowerment organization. And I said, yeah, you could call it that, definitely. We want every woman to know she is important, cared about, loved, and doesn’t deserve harm.

    Anne: Thank you so much for sharing your story on our podcast today.

    Evie: Thank you so much for having me.
  • Betrayal Trauma Recovery

    Emotional Battering: The Invisible Abuse No One Can See

    06/09/2026 | 26 mins.
    When emotional battering is covert, each moment looks harmless on its own. A comment, joke, or a nice” surprise might seem harmless. But when you step back and look at the pattern, a very different story emerges, one where boundaries are crossed, and her reactions are used as evidence against her.

    SEVEN SIGNS OF EMOTIONAL BATTERING

    Here are seven signs of emotional battering that often go unnoticed, especially when the husband looks like a great guy to everyone else.

    Her reactions don’t match his gestures. He is doing something that seems nice, but she seems genuinely distressed. It usually means she senses something that other people can’t.

    If she seems on edge around his kindness. She flinches at affection or looks uneasy when he is charming, it’s usually because she knows that kindness is hiding something that isn’t so kind.

    If she watches him carefully, she’s probably gauging risk. Hyperawareness is an emotional survival skill. So if she’s being emotionally battered, it’s totally normal that she’s gonna be on high alert for emotional manipulation.

    Feeling relief when you are away from him is a powerful indicator that something’s really wrong in your marriage.

    She apologizes for things that don’t require an apology. If she’s apologizing for just stating her opinion, or talking about how she feels, it’s highly likely that she’s experiencing emotional battering.

    She adjusts herself to constantly keep the peace. His lies that she’s doing something wrong are part of the emotional battering.

    Her friends notice that she’s not quite herself around him. A woman who’s trying to make herself smaller is not loved in marriage. If she seems quieter or less alive in his presence, that’s a sign that her husband is emotionally battering her.

    To learn if you are a victim of emotional battering, take this free emotional abuse quiz.

    WHAT IS EMOTIONAL BATTERING?

    Emotional battering is a consistent pattern of words, actions, or behaviors intended to manipulate, or control a person. Unlike physical abuse, emotional battering is more subtle and insidious, making it difficult to identify and even harder to explain to others.

    Worse, an abuser may manipulate others, so you experience emotional battering from people in your church congregation or even neighbors. If you’re experiencing emotional battering from by-standers regarding your husband’s behavior, you need support. Attend a Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group Session TODAY.

    COMMON EMOTIONAL BATTERING TACTICS

    Being married and experiencing emotional battering by your husband means navigating daily complexities that are draining and painful. Some common tactics include:

    Gaslighting: Making you question your memory, reality, or perceptions. For example, he may say, “I never said that,” even when you vividly remember he did.

    Constant Criticism: Regularly pointing out flaws, whether it’s your cooking, appearance, or parenting, to damage your confidence.

    Blame Shifting: Over time, you may find yourself thinking, my husband says I’m the problem, because he consistently redirects accountability onto you instead of addressing his own actions.

    Stonewalling or Silent Treatment: Refusing to engage in meaningful conversations, leaving you feeling invalidated and powerless.

    Public Embarrassment: Mocking or undermining you in front of friends or family to isolate you and damage your self-esteem.

    Emotional Withholding: Withholding affection, love, or support to punish or control you.

    TRANSCRIPT: EMOTIONAL BATTERING – THE INVISIBLE ABUSE NO ONE CAN SEE

    Anne: I have a member of our community on today’s episode. We’re gonna call her Kiki.

    Welcome, Kiki.

    Kiki: Thank you very much. I’m excited to be here. First of all, I wanna thank BTR, because when I was in the middle of a complete breakdown, not understanding what was happening to me, it was only through finding your organization and the help of your team that made me realize that I wasn’t safe. The abuse was so covert that most people couldn’t have recognized it, myself included. I had therapists that didn’t recognize it as emotional battering.

    And that started a journey into figuring out exactly what had happened to me. And what had happened to my friend. I came home from work one night, and there were police vehicles all over the place. We were told she had shot herself in her husband’s car. And she would tell us a lot of times these stories, and we would look at her like. She’s crazy or she’s making things up because her husband was such a great guy.

    As I started going through my own stories and learning things after her death, but I was thinking about it the other day, like, you look at the Diddy trial or you look at women who come in and they’re battered. And they still have a hard time being believed. And then you take somebody who has been covertly abused or live in a society where, if your wife isn’t pretty enough or what have you, then she’s replaceable and it’s okay.

    PEOPLE HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING THERE IS EMOTIONAL BATTERING

    Kiki: People have a hard time believing there was abuse involved, but I left a 35 year marriage with severe CPTSD. I had a psychotic break, and I had to put myself back together. And during all of it, my ex-husband is the hero. My kids aren’t talking to me because I had some big breakdowns and did some things I’m not proud of.

    And that was like my friend’s story, she would have these breakdowns. You could be just as abused with a fist as you can with a piece of birthday cake. And I know that sounds silly. But it’s so covert, that people can’t see it as emotional battering.

    And BTR and the women and the professionals that came on here really gave me that push to step into it.

    Anne: Talk to me about the things your friend did that were totally normal under the circumstances. Like now that you know what you were looking at. So that we can let women who are listening know they’re not alone. If they’ve done something like this, it’s because they were trying to protect themselves. It’s completely and totally normal, and even healthy, when you’re in the situation to try to get to safety in any way that you can.

    Kiki: Oh, absolutely. There are several things that come up right away. The first one was we always had holiday parties at their house. They had a beautiful pool and her husband said something that seemed very innocuous and she started yelling. You promised me you wouldn’t say that you wouldn’t do this.

    ABUSE BY THROWING A SURPRISE PARTY

    Kiki: And she kind of goes off the rails a little bit, and we’re all sitting there looking at her like, what is going on right now? And so I immediately go into my people pleasing it’s okay to… and she’s yelling at me, “No, you don’t understand. You don’t understand what he does. I told him not to do this. He told me he wouldn’t do it. To you it seems innocent, but it’s not innocent.” And everybody’s looking at her.

    I get her away, and then I get her calmed down. And I go back and her husband is playing the victim. “Oh, poor me, you see, she’s bipolar. She always does this. This is what I have to live with.” And I feel so bad, because at the time, I didn’t realize I was going through it myself. You don’t realize it until after you’re out of it. Another thing, he was just very manipulative. For her 40th birthday, he threw her this amazing party, and everybody was in awe and completely jealous. And she was not happy about it.

    She told me afterwards, “I told him, I don’t like things like this. And it was just too much. It was way over the top.” And of course, I’m looking at her like I would give my left arm if my husband would throw me a party like this. Of course, he wouldn’t, because he knew I wanted one. Yeah, so there’s the difference. If you want it, you don’t get it. If you don’t want it, you get it.

    Then every year after that, he would throw her a surprise party and he would go out of his way to get people there, and she would walk in the room.

    MAKING HER LOOK UNGRATEFUL, UNKIND AND UNCARING

    Kiki: And we would all yell, surprise, and she would be devastated. then she’d try to put a smile on her face, and she was dying inside. Because how do you walk into the public where your husband has done this beautiful thing for you, but it’s exactly what you’ve asked him not to do?

    By year seven, she just kind of walked in, and then just went off in the corner and drank too much. She didn’t want a dog, but her son wanted a dog. So on her birthday, he bought her a designer dog and invited several friends to see her get the dog. Now she loved the dog with all her heart, but it was that manipulation tactic to say. Look at what a great husband I am. Here’s this $1,500 dog and you don’t get to complain about it.

    Anne: Correct me if I’m wrong. But he had effectively made her look ungrateful, unkind, uncaring. Which is exactly what he wanted.

    Kiki: Exactly. He was a very charming, gracious host, and the door was always open. I lived next door to them. And she could be reactive at times. And I would hear him talking to his son on the side of the house, and he would be saying. Just be quiet. I’ll help you out. You know how your mother is, you know how your mother gets, so he’s completely not supporting her.

    The biggest thing: the woman who he had a long-term affair with, they ended up getting married and they had a destination wedding.

    Anne: Did you know about the affair before she died ?

    Kiki: I did know about it and she knew about it. She was always concerned about it because her husband had told her it was over.

    ALWAYS PITTING EVERYBODY AGAINST ONE ANOTHER

    Kiki: But she would get these, Facebook or emails from an email she had never heard of before or a fake name, nobody she knew. That would say, your husband doesn’t love you. At one point, her husband even admitted it was from this woman, and of course, “I love you. I love only you. This woman’s crazy.”

    So he always pitted everybody against one another, that they’re crazy. Well, he ends up marrying this woman in a destination wedding. On the 10th anniversary of her death, his new wife, who he had an affair with the whole time. Puts up a post on Facebook that says, “I’ve been keeping a secret. We actually got secretly married on the day before the anniversary of her death” And nobody says a word. There’s whispers behind the scenes, but there’s the, Jesus wants us to forgive and forget.

    And I’m like, no. And that’s when I said, “Uhuh, you know what? I’m not gonna keep quiet.” And you know what? I believe it was soul murder, because that’s how abusers manipulate their victims, especially the covert type. It’s so insidious. It just eats away at your soul, and you completely lose yourself.

    Anne: That is so strange. Who in their right mind, if they’re a decent person, wants to publicly say that?

    Having your new wife tell the whole world that they secretly got married the day before the anniversary of when mom committed suicide. Like, that’s not hurting anyone? What? That’s like next level. How did people react to that post? Were they like, it feels like it would be like radio silence, okay, cray cray town. Or were they like, “Oh, congratulations, I’m so glad you did that secretly because she was so crazy.” What was the reaction?

    REACTIONS TO AN ABUSIVE POST

    Kiki: Mostly my friends and people who didn’t know her spoke out. It was almost crickets from friends and family, publicly. Several of them reached out behind the scenes or had somebody reach out on their behalf. People seemed afraid to say anything. That’s what they do is gather their minions. I’ve heard he’s sending out paragraphs of these long texts, playing the victim and putting his son in the role of, here’s Kiki hurting my son.

    He’s retired from the police force, but is now serving as a bailiff. And that’s, one of the things he’s very concerned about is what if I lose my job or what if I lose face, because nothing triggers a covert abuser than being cornered.

    Anne: It’s really, I would say, shocking that that’s what abusive messages sound like. Because they sound so nice and they sound like he’s the victim, really. It’s awful to think that society in general is so blind and in the dark about what these messages look and sound like.

    They all look the same. Once you know what you’re looking at, you know how to see it. And my workshop covers that. I took the real life messages from five different, emotionally abusive men and use those and then how to respond to them. And most of them are just not overt. They really sound like nice guys, but when you know what you’re looking for, you’re able to see these are clearly abusive.

    Kiki: Yeah, it’s really hard , these are people that we had great times with. You don’t understand that they’re being horrible and they’ve got this whole other life.








    INVESTIGATORS TALK TO ME

    Kiki: One thing I will say is, the investigator who called me, actually two investigators called me and the one was really good. We talked about coercive abuse. He says, ” A lot of times people think coercive abuse is they lock you in the house or they take away your money. But it’s not always that way.” He says, “I understand what you’re saying.” He said, “Unfortunately, we’re not at the point in our world where it’s really illegal to be a jerk.”

    But I did send all his text messages to this investigator and said, “Hey, just in case anything happens, I want you to see this.”

    I don’t think she was terrified of him at all, nor was I of my husband. As a matter of fact, about a month before she passed away, she was with another friend and wanted to hire a private investigator. The friend was going to help her, and then a day or two later she wrote and she said, no, don’t do it.

    Because even if I find out he’s cheating again, I love my husband and I am not going to leave him. I think she was just so convinced that she was lucky to have this guy . She didn’t understand the covert abuse. I have become this huge investigator on patterns, looking at patterns and trying to figure it all out. Because it is so sneaky and so covert, and it goes over so long. I thought I had the perfect marriage. I didn’t understand until I was out of it.

    How much of myself I had lost and how some of these things that I had completely normalized, my ex-husband had me convinced that all men think this way and all men do these things.

    YOU DON’T KNOW ALL OF THE ABUSE YOU’RE EXPERIENCING

    Kiki: I got married when I was 21 years old. I had never even heard of pornography until I got married. Then we were in the military, and went to the Philippines, where sex was everywhere, so was infidelity. So anytime a husband had an affair, it was the wife’s fault. Because she wasn’t doing what she was supposed to be doing. And even within our group, there were affairs within different couples. The thing was, you don’t take sides. They’re always invited, and whoever shows up, shows up. Of course, it was always the two people having the affair that showed up. And the spouse that was actually wronged didn’t.

    It always bothered me. I always felt horrible, but I thought, that’s the way the world is. And it’s really sad when you don’t know what you don’t know until it’s too late.

    Anne: Isn’t it too late the whole time? You don’t know all of the emotional and psychological abuse you’re experiencing the entire time.

    Kiki: No, you don’t. Until you’re out of it, you’ve lost your mind. You’re blaming yourself for everything. People are dropping out of your life. My ex-husband was married within 30 days to a woman. He’s 70 now, I think she might be 29 or 30. He is the great guy and look, I finally got away from that crazy person. And I’m sitting here in shock as to how I’m the bad person. But that’s because the people we were around, society as a whole, a lot of the times think, time to get a new one. My ex used to do things very covertly. He knew I was always very concerned about my weight.

    COVERTLY UNDERMINING SELF-ESTEEM

    Kiki: Of course, he made me concerned about my weight. He would come home and say, I brought us cake for dessert, and tonight when we’re watching TV, we could eat cake for dessert. And I’d be like, okay.

    It was always the kind of cake, almost 99% of the time, he liked. Not the cake I liked. And we would split the piece of cake. Well, while I was eating my cake, we would be watching TV and there would be some beautiful actress on there, and he’d say something like, “Oh what did she allow to happen to herself? She just turned into such a fat pig.” Like he would say that. And here’s me sitting here.

    Anne: Wow.

    Kiki: So used to people talking that way, that I look and it’s this beautiful woman. I say, “Are you crazy? She’s gorgeous, she’s beautiful.” And he’d say, “Well, honey, don’t get jealous or upset. I mean, she’s not 55 years old and she hasn’t had two kids.” So suddenly that cake is just sitting there in your throat, like this lump of cement. That’s how badly I had been groomed. He would say these horrible things and say, all men think that way. That’s how a lot of people thought in the circle we were with. He told me one time. You know how they always tell on themselves?

    He says, “I’m not really mad at you. I kind of respect you for finally standing up for yourself.” And I just went, oh my, he knew. It’s a game.

    Anne: It’s a game of exploitation. How much can I exploit her, how much can I get from her? How can I use her without having to give very much? They know they have to give a little bit.

    CALCULATING TO EXPLOIT

    Anne: But like, what is the least amount I can give for the most amount I can get? And they’re not caring about us. They are using us. Their motions, as if they care, are calculated to exploit us. They’re like, what’s the biggest bang I can get for this? It’s a completely different vibe that we feel from people when they actually care about us, when they’re not transactional in the way that they interact with us.

    All of this I talk about in detail in my Workshop , like exactly why this happens and what to look for, to know if they are transactional in their relationships. That means every time he says, I care about you, he’s calculated that in order to get something out of you, he’s not actually caring about you.

    That’s what makes couple therapy so impossible or going to clergy so impossible, or friends. Because he’ll never actually say the truth of how he feels and what his intentions are.

    Kiki: Oh yeah. I grew up where love was transactional.

    I know it’s not my fault, but if I want a healthy relationship, then I have to understand that.

    Anne: The plane wreck’s not your fault. It’s not your fault that the plane didn’t have supplies on it. It’s not your fault that the plane didn’t have a satellite phone. You are gonna need to stand up and start walking toward the nearest city, and I think that’s what you’re talking about. It is where you’re like, okay, the plane wreck is not my fault. None of this is my fault. However, if I don’t stand up and start moving forward, I’m not gonna survive this.

    Kiki: Exactly.

    HOW THEY ACT IS NOT WHAT THEY SAY

    Anne: That survival starts with recognizing what these liars do and what they say. If we had to boil it down—though it’s almost impossible—it’s this: if you only observed what they did with your eyes and not your ears, what would you see? Most of the time, you would see that how they act doesn’t match what they say. And that’s when women start asking an important question: is lying emotionally abusive? Because when someone’s words and actions never line up, that pattern alone begins to erode your sense of reality.

    Kiki: Oh, I often say that if my ex-husband’s lips were moving, there was a lie coming out. Even though he presented as the most wonderful, generous person you ever met in your life. He controlled with size. He controlled with victimhood, the poor me. As a matter of fact, most people would tell you in my family that I wore the pants of the family.

    But the reality was, it was just an illusion. I was controlled from the time I woke up through the time I went to bed. I call it death through thousand paper cuts just all day long. “Did ‘you have to put the ketchup in here like this? Why did you put the dish in here like this? Most women would be thrilled that they have a husband that wants to watch TV with them. Why can’t you come sit down and watch TV?”

    I’d be like, oh yeah, you’re right. And I’d go running and never understand what was really going on. I think that happens in a lot of marriages, and it still didn’t all add up for me. I had to learn patterns, because to me, coercive meant it was mean, but it’s not always.

    SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT ON EMOTIONAL BATTERING

    Anne: You mentioned they can hurt you just as much with a piece of cake as they can with a fist. The most abusive thing someone can do is tell you they love you when it’s not true. They’re using you. They love what they can get from you, but actually caring about you, not so much.

    Thank you so much. Kiki, you’re incredible for wanting to set the record straight about who your friend was and why she was acting the way that she was. She was doing what any healthy woman would do, not understanding her situation, and trying to create some emotional safety for herself. In the best way that she knew how and she didn’t know what was happening and she didn’t know what to do about it.

    And that’s not her fault. That’s society’s fault. That’s every therapist that they went to’s fault. If they went to therapy or clergy or whoever, who did not educate her about what was actually happening.

    Because women in this situation, they do the right thing. They try to get help. They try to get information, they try to listen to their husband and communicate with him more. Whatever it is they’re trying to do, they have good intentions. It’s really unfortunate that bystanders, professionals, people outside, they attribute good intentions to someone. Meaning an abusive man who doesn’t have them. He actually has bad intentions.

    So, that’s awesome that you’re honoring your friend in this way. I bet she’s looking on you and thanking you for that.

    WANTING PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND

    Kiki: I hope so. Yeah, I wanted people to understand who she really was and why she was the way she was sometimes, and even for her son to maybe understand who his mother really was and what was happening. Because I think that’s the biggest travesty. I’m being blamed for hurting the son, but the son is still caught in these dynamics within a system that protects the perpetrator. The truth may hurt, but lies will kill you.

    Anne: Yeah, oh, that is so true.

    Kiki: Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity. You’re amazing. BTR is amazing and thank you.

    Anne: Thank you.
  • Betrayal Trauma Recovery

    How To Rebuild Trust In a Relationship After His Betrayal

    05/19/2026 | 23 mins.
    If your husband has betrayed you, figuring out how to rebuild trust in a relationship can feel overwhelming. You may even feel pressure, from others or from yourself, to help him rebuild that trust by explaining what you need to feel safe again. However, that can actually put you at risk.

    After all, you can’t rebuild trust for him. Trust only grows when he consistently chooses to be trustworthy.

    That’s why, if your husband has broken your trust and you want to feel safe with him again, it helps to pause, take a step back, and think strategically. If you need support in the process, attend a Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group Session to talk to others in similar situations.

    THREE WAYS HOW TO REBUILD TRUST IN A RELATIONSHIP

    1. UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF TRUST

    The first and most crucial step is to understand that you shouldn’t trust someone who isn’t trustworthy. The person who broke the trust is the only one who can repair the damage by changing their actions and demonstrating their commitment to honesty over time.

    2. RESIST THE PRESSURE TO TEACH HIM HOW TO BE TRUSTWORTHY

    It might seem helpful to tell your partner how to rebuild trust, exactly what they need to do to earn your trust back. But giving instructions like, “text me when you’re late” or “share your location” can create a dangerous illusion of progress when he complies.

    He may follow your directions just enough to keep the peace without really changing. Creating a false sense of security and leaving you vulnerable to hurt again.

    To find out if he’s using any one of the 19 different types of emotional abuse, take my free emotional abuse test.

    3. KNOW THAT EFFORT ISN’T THE SAME AS TRUSTWORTHINESSS

    The safest and most effective way to see if your husband becoming trustworthy again is to observe his words and actions over time. Here are some things to look for:

    Has he taken full responsibility of restoring trust without making excuses or pressuring you to reconcile?

    Is he consistent in his words and behaviors?

    Does he show empathy for the pain he caused you?

    Keep reading to learn more about how to move forward with clarity, even when you’re not getting answers.

    If you’re feeling confused about whether or not your husband is trustworthy, we’re always online to support you. Here’s our daily support group schedule.

    Obviously, rebuilding trust after he’s broken it is so hard, and there’s another part of this that’s just as hard. For women of faith, if you’ve been praying and praying for God to help change your husband’s heart, and it’s not happening. That can be so painful, especially when He doesn’t seem to answering prayer for your husband. So if you’re interested in hearing more about this from a faith perspective, here’s my interview with Kirby Kelly.

    TRANSCRIPT: HOW TO REBUILD TRUST AFTER BETRAYAL

    Anne: Welcome, I have a wonderful guest on today, Kirby Kelly. Kirby is an author and speaker whose book The Fabric of Hope invites listeners into honest reflection on hope and loss without shying away from the depth of human pain.

    Her perspective on healing is rooted on both empathy and thoughtful reflection, acknowledging the weight of betrayal, while encouraging steady hope and inner resilience. Kirby, I love that the focus of your book is on when things don’t go quite right. Our audience is interfaith and inner paradigm, so for those of you listening, we’re having a discussion of faith today and the betrayal that a lot of women feel when they’re doing everything right.

    They’re reading their scriptures, talking to God, and it’s not going the way they hoped. They’re wondering how to rebuild trust in a relationship with their husband and maybe, even God. So let’s start with what inspired you to write this book?

    Kirby: For anyone who doesn’t know who I am, hi, my name is Kirby Kelly. I’m an author, speaker, also a podcaster. We had you on my podcast so people can come over and enjoy and listen to our episode.

    I wrote The Fabric of Hope because I have definitely walked through different experiences in my own life of suffering, that I did not ask for. That I did not pray for. It felt like life didn’t just hand me a lemon, but chucked a couple lemons at my face. And being Christian and believing what scripture says about God being good. That was something that I had to reconcile, was the fact that this good, loving, kind, and just God would allow us to go through things that are hard.

    FINDING HOPE NO MATTER THE OUTCOME

    Kirby: As I thought about what the pattern was in my life. There were moments where there was a lot of bad. A lot of things going on in my life were difficult, but I was able to see God work miraculously, give me hope, weave redemption into those places. And although there are some seasons and situations I wish I didn’t have to go through.

    I’m now able to look back with perspective and see how God used all of those things for good and how he is my hope, not my outcome. When I place my hope in Jesus, there’s real redemption that I otherwise might discard and think would never be used for good.

    And knowing that a lot of people go through hard things or have gone through hard things, and are also trying to reconcile that, well, is God good? In answering these hard questions, I wanted people to wrestle honestly and wisely with the whys they ask, but also arrive at the same conclusion as me, of knowing, hey, God is a redeemer of all things, and we can live a life full of hope.

    Anne: Yeah, oh, I’m so glad you brought that up. So for me, my experience with betrayal brought me closer to God. In interviewing all the women that I’ve interviewed, for some women, it takes them farther away. So our stance here at BTR is that whatever works for you works for us. If church or religion or even God feels unsafe to you and learning how to rebuild trust is not even on your radar, you’re welcome here.

    HOW TO REBUILD TRUST WHEN FAITH FEELS UNSAFE

    Anne: So if you’re somebody who’s like, you know what, I just can’t. I just wanted to let you know that’s what this will be about. So you’re not like, I don’t want this. ‘Cause so many women, they’ve been so spiritually abused.

    So they’ve gone in for help maybe with their betrayal or trauma from what is, essentially hidden abuse. And their clergy has told them that they have to submit more or they have to forgive when they’re really genuinely emotionally unsafe. So for women who have grappled with that and are grappling with betrayal, and wondering, is God there?

    And they want God to be there, but they can’t feel him. I’ll just say one more thing from my own personal experience. After my husband’s arrest, I could not feel God at all. Not even a little bit. I prayed, couldn’t feel his comfort, couldn’t feel anything. I was just in intense distress for about nine months, wondering how to rebuild trust in God.

    And I would go in my closet sometimes. I would wrap a blanket around me. No matter how hard I prayed, no matter how much I studied the scriptures, I could not feel him. I knew that I would at some point, and so I continued to do it. And I remember this one night, it, I woke up in the middle of the night and for literally like maybe two seconds, I felt comfort for the first time in nine months.

    And it was like, okay, he’s there. I think I sat up and I was like. Was that real? Is that just me? And I felt it again and I thought, okay, everything’s gonna be okay. God knows who I am. And then I didn’t feel it again for months.

    FINDING HOPE IN THE PATTERNS OF GOD’S FAITHFULNESS

    Anne: So it was really, really hard. Just knowing that, and that women are going through this, and that some women really want to hold onto their faith even when they can’t even feel God. Can you share some things that might bring them comfort?

    Kirby: As you were talking, I thought of the story of Joseph. Because that’s a story of betrayal. He was betrayed by his brothers, sold into slavery, falsely accused. imprisoned, and forgotten about. This was his life over the span of decades. Yet, God ended up using it all to save the nations from a famine, These broken pieces of his life that he probably questioned if it could ever be used for anything good, ended up being the very stepping stones that led him to great purpose.

    In Genesis 50:20, he even says to the face of the people who betrayed him, and I’m not saying that you have to come face to face and completely reconcile with the people who betrayed you, but in Joseph’s story, he was able to look at the people who put him through what he went through and say, “Hey, what you all intended for evil. God ended up using it all for good.”

    Joseph’s pain was real. The betrayal that he went through was real. But it wasn’t final. That wasn’t the end of his story. God was able to redeem that situation.

    HOW TO REBUILD TRUST BY HOLDING ONTO WHAT IS STILL TRUE

    Kirby: And sometimes we don’t understand the things that we go through or what God has allowed us to go through, until later. And if you’re not getting that clarity at this moment, if you’re not feeling comfort, there are four things that I write about in my book that we can hedge our hope on, and sometimes they might overlap in certain seasons. Other times it might just be one pillar that we stand on. We can hope in the promises of God, we really can. And learn how to rebuild trust in Him.

    Another thing that we can hope in is his patterns, and that’s why I bring up the story of Joseph. Because maybe you’re not seeing it happen right here, right now for you, your healing, your deliverance, whatever it is that you’re praying for. We can at least look at the patterns of God’s faithfulness, that he has this pattern of redemption. Maybe it’s not always on our timeline or how we expect, but we can have that hope and that confident expectation that God, you are a redeemer you can redeem this thing too.

    Two other things that we can hope in is his presence, that he is with us even when we don’t feel it. That he is near to the brokenhearted and he saves those who are crushed in spirit. And then the last thing that we can hope in is his personhood.

    And what I mean by that is his character. If God is who he says he is. Then that means he is kind. He is just, merciful, loving. I know that our circumstances can shout at us.

    SCRIPTURES HELP BY GIVING EXAMPLES

    Kirby: Well, if you’re going through something bad, how can God be good? I know the Christianese answer that maybe you’re tired of hearing is that we live in a broken world, but we do. There are people who are operating out of their own selfishness, and they end up wounding other people.And it’s really sad and unfortunate when we’re the ones on the receiving end of that. God is not the author of evil. He’s the redeemer of it.

    He can actually do a good work, because we see that time and time again in scripture. We also have to understand that these people were real people, and probably didn’t have the five-year plan either. They didn’t know what God was up to. I think that can bring us to a place of, okay, if they were able to get through this, that will give me strength and hope to trust in God in my own betrayal story.

    Anne: Yeah, and not knowing what that resolution would be. There are so many women who have come to share their story on my podcast, and have talked about this. Many of them have ended up divorced. Many of them are in the middle of it. They don’t really know what their financial situation will be and they’re wondering, “what if I can never trust my husband again?”

    They don’t know how it’s going to work out, but they testify, I would say, of God’s love and that their relationship with God improved. I welcome everyone who has been betrayed to come share their story no matter what happened to them.

    WHAT TO DO WHEN YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS

    Anne: I was talking to my sister, who is not a believer, and we were discussing our different views on things. And she said, “Well, you’ve never doubted.”

    And I thought, yeah, I have, ’cause I’ve been like, where are you, God? But actually, she’s right. I’ve never had a time where I thought, is God actually there? I know other people have, and I totally validate that, but I’ve always known He was there. And so when I couldn’t feel Him, rather than feeling abandoned, I was actually angrier.

    Like, I know you’re there. Why are you not talking to me? My experience has always been not so much like thinking He wasn’t there, but more being mad at Him. Like, if you can do anything, what is going on? My experience has been when I’m just totally honest with Him and tell Him how mad I am, it works out really great because He loves our honesty and wants to be there for us while we learn how to rebuild trust.

    Kirby: Oh, absolutely. I think we need to be honest with God about what we are feeling and experiencing, honest about our pain. I think about the biblical concept of lament. Lament is like this deep sorrowful, woeful cry. From the depths of our soul.

    Like you said, I feel justified in my anger, in my disappointment. I feel justified in wondering why things are going the way they are. One third of the Psalms are lament. I think that’s really telling of the human experience, because I think a lot of people gravitate towards the Psalms when it comes to dealing with hard things, needing hope.




    YOU DON’T HAVE TO PRETEND YOU’RE OKAY WHILE LEARNING HOW TO REBUILD TRUST IN A RELATIONSHIP

    Kirby: In seasons where they feel like they’re wavering or just trying to navigate something that’s super difficult and unknown to them.There’s even a whole book called Lamentations.

    Anne: I’m just now putting two and two together. That it’s literally called Lamentations.

    Kirby: This is about weeping and mourning and being like, God, what is going on? In any form of lament I’ve noticed, at least as I’ve studied the laments, because for me, three years ago, this wasn’t necessarily betrayal, but loss. My mom died. And I remember going through the laments and just being like, this is all that I feel like my heart can relate to right now is the God, why? Why are my enemies after me? And why are they pursuing me? Why is everything overcoming me?

    In the laments, there’s this honest pouring out of this is everything I’m carrying and feeling and thinking. But what’s beautiful about lament and also beautiful about praise, both end in hope. Praise ends in hope. A lot of the laments, they end on this high note of hope. Of declaring and remembering, okay, but you are good, this is what you have promised, this is what you have done in my life.

    This is your record of faithfulness. I’m going to cling onto this because I know that if you were able to bring resolution to those things, then where I’m at right now isn’t the end of the story. So to the person who’s like actually wrestling and maybe grew up in a church environment where you had to fake fine.

    HONEST DOUBTS AND QUESTIONS

    Kirby: Or you grew up in a community where they didn’t want you to bring honest questions or honest doubts before the Lord and wrestle with those things. We need to wrestle with those things and bring them to the Lord, because he’s not looking for performative Christianity. Especially when it comes to navigating the really hard human things that we go through. We don’t have to edit our emotions before we go to him.

    In Psalm 62:8, we are told to pour out our hearts before him. He already knows you’re feeling it and he might be thinking, well, if he already knows I’m feeling it, do it for you. When you begin that open conversation with Him, we can get to a place where we can begin to take the steps of trusting God with the situation and to see his hand at work behind the scenes.

    Anne: I think so many women who are experiencing their husband’s betrayal have prayed so much that many are sick of it. They’re like, this isn’t working. I pray for the same thing every day.  They’re not sure how to rebuild trust with someone who isn’t really changing. Also, they’ve been lied to about prayer. I’m gonna say true things that are also lies in this particular situation. So the true thing is God can work miracles. The true thing is God can change people’s hearts.

    The true thing is, God can heal people. The lie is that it will happen. And when I say that it’s not that God isn’t capable, it’s that somebody might not want their heart to be changed.

    FINDING THE TRUTH THAT SETS YOU FREE

    Anne: So then if they hear, “Pray and God will heal you,” which was true. It sounds a lot like pray and God will heal your marriage. So, you have to stay married to this abusive man. but that’s not really what God wants. The Bible isn’t to oppress us and to force us to do things that are really not good for us. It’s for us to find God’s love and to learn how to rebuild trust.

    Kirby: Yeah, it really matters contextually these promises that we’re reading about where a person prayed a specific prayer, they prayed for something and they got a certain result.

    And it’s easy for us to be like, okay, if I pray that exact prayer, if I do this exact thing, then it’s going to happen exactly like it happened for these people. Or it’s going to turn out the way that I’ve always heard it taught to me. And this is why context matters. Because I think that sometimes we can read scripture and just read one verse and end up with a misinterpretation.

    When I think about prayer, we’re told to ask and seek and knock at the door, and it’ll be given to you. But we’re also seeing in scripture, not my will, your will be done. So there is this dichotomy of God can do it. But will He do it?

    Will He do it in the way that we expect? Will He do it on our timeline? And will He do it the way that he did it for the person sitting next to you in your small group? Or the person that you just read about in scripture?

    HOW TO REBUILD TRUST IN A RELATIONSHIP REQUIRES WILLINGNESS, NOT JUST POTENTIAL

    Kirby: And that’s the providence of God, he can do anything that is within his limits of being God. But at the same time, he created man with free will.

    Anne: They can be in open rebellion. God could be trying to help them and they are literally like, no God , I’m not doing it.

    Kirby: And the whole point of that is because He created us to be in relationship, to give us autonomy, to give us choice, to actually choose how to rebuild trust in our relationships. Because love is a choice, to be in relationship, to give your heart to somebody else. God’s not going to overstep boundaries. He respects boundaries. And I’m thankful God is kind and gentle in that way. But at the same time, God can move in our lives. He’s moved in mine. I’m sure He’s moved in yours and can move in the lives of other people that we are praying for.

    But like you said, because he has given us that autonomy, we all have that choice. And as much as that can be so frustrating for us who are praying for the breakthrough, the miracle, or the relationship to be restored. It can be warped in a way to think, well God, you’re not good for not doing this. If he’s not changing the heart of the other person, I think a prayer that we can begin to pray is, “God, what do you wanna change within my heart? What do you wanna change within my prayers?

    What is something different or new that you want to do, that you want to reveal to me to start praying for?”

    RELEASING EXPECTATIONS

    Kirby: I mean, keep praying for it if you want to, if you feel that conviction to, but maybe there’s a new perspective or a shift, maybe it looks different, so maybe that’s something to start preparing your heart for, but that doesn’t make it bad, it’s probably going to be greater than the thing that we’re putting expectation in. We can put expectation in God to answer, move, work, redeem, but we also need to release expectation of what that might look like, especially when other people who have their own will are involved.

    Anne: I’m smiling because the way you describe it sounds extremely nice. For me, it’s more like, “God, I’m so mad at you.”

    Kirby: Yeah.

    Anne: You are driving me crazy. I know you can do this, and you are not doing it.

    Kirby: Oh, trust me. I feel that.

    Anne: And in that moment I’m so frustrated.

    Kirby: That’s real. I’ve been there too, but God is so kind that even when I’m showing up with any attitude, any anger, or any emotion, whatever it is, he’s not trying to get me to the next thing, even though I’m like, get me to the next thing. He’s like, we just need to walk right now. And there’s a lot of grace in the slow down pace of trying to heal us that often we don’t realize. Until oh yeah, You were doing something deeper in this whole situation that I ever could have thought. And He’s not an I told you so kind of God.

    Anne: No.

    MOTHER TERESA AND GRATITUDE

    Kirby: I’m glad you see it now kind of God. And I’m thankful for that.

    Anne: Yeah, and I’m like, wow, He really loves me, like literally loves me so much because I am like 98% lamentation and maybe 0.001% praise. And I don’t know what the other part is. Maybe like mild, thank you, gratitude, maybe that’s what it is. But I’m so much more lamentation than praise. So I’m happy to hear that at least that’s getting me somewhere.

    Kirby: Well, hey, you relate to a lot of the people in scripture.

    Anne: I was reading about Mother Teresa the other day. There’s a book, I haven’t read it yet, but I just read the book cover. So I don’t know what I’m talking about. But it was by a nun who worked with Mother Teresa for most of her life, and she said that Mother Teresa felt abandoned and angry with God most of her life.

    And she personally knew her. Not angry in a, I’m not gonna do your work kind of way, but just like, why is this happening? And I thought, oh, I need to read this book, because Mother Teresa and I, I’m not saying I’m as good as she was or anything like that, but I was like, we have some stuff in common.

    I relate to this and think this idea, and I’ll call it more spiritual abuse, that “righteous women,” maybe talk a certain way or look a certain way, or they wouldn’t be angry with God or they wouldn’t wrestle with some things. I think it is a disservice to women, because they don’t realize all the different options they have to interact with, because I’m Christian too, our Savior, or with God.

    SPIRITUAL ABUSE CAUSES LACK OF TRUST

    Anne: I think opening it up to realize that the maybe there’s more to our relationship with Him than the spiritually abused way of seeing Him, that people use so that you aren’t getting out of your lane. So that they could keep you in the spot they wanted to keep you in. I’m not talking about all religious leaders or anything. But, abusive men do this quite often. There are so many options than you knew to have a relationship with God, I think is really important for women who want it. They want to know how to rebuild trust.

    Kirby: I wanna add that for women who have gone through spiritual abuse, specifically by their husbands or ex-husbands, maybe that was even affirmed in leadership in the church. And you have this anger towards this patriarchal God. The more and more I’ve studied it, God loves his daughters, He fights for his daughters, He sees his daughters, He interacts with his daughters, he invites his daughters.

    And so if you can get to know God as a father, a perfect father. Not your father, not the man you married and how he treated your kids, not the father of your church.

    Anne: Yeah, thank you. I couldn’t agree more. There’s so many instances in the New Testament of Christ treating women in ways that were absolutely…

    Kirby: Ludicrous to society.

    Anne: Yeah, and so he was a disruptor. He was definitely not the poster child for institutional obedience. That’s for sure. I love that about Him.

    Kirby: You wanna know who God is? Look at Jesus. He is the word of God, the heart of God, like the Son of God walking around.

    Anne: Yeah, I love that. You are amazing. Thank you so much.
  • Betrayal Trauma Recovery

    The Truth About Signs of Emotional Manipulation in Marriage

    05/19/2026 | 20 mins.
    For many women, signs of emotional manipulation don’t stop with their husband. It often spreads outward, into families, faith communities, friend groups, and even professional support systems.

    Emotional manipulation can be especially destabilizing when it comes from people a woman expects to be supportive. Friends, family members, clergy, therapists, or neighbors may unintentionally reinforce harmful patterns, leaving her feeling isolated, blamed, or unsure where to turn.

    Here are seven signs of emotional manipulation that often appear after a woman reaches out for help:

    7 Signs of Emotional Manipulation When SEeking Marriage Help

    1. Advice that centers on him instead of your emotional safety
    Comments like, “He needs your support” don’t take into account that he might be lying or manipulating you.

    2. Spiritual or moral language used to silence you.
    Phrases like, just forgive or don’t keep score, pressure women to look on the bright side, when really they need to seek emotional safety.

    3. Undermining reality.
    Statements such as “it’s not that bad” or “you’re overreacting”, erase facts and blur the truth.

    4. Discomfort disguised as reassurance
    Often when someone is uncomfortable with hearing the truth, they rush to shut it down with statements like, “Everything will be okay.” When really they’re just pressuring a woman to stay silent.

    5. Protecting his image over the truth
    If you go for help and the people you ask for help are more worried about protecting his image than they are the truth, they might say something like, “You shouldn’t talk about your husband like that.”

    6. Isolation through niceness
    Well-meaning nice responses can leave you feeling alone, misunderstood, and less likely to reach out again.

    7. Pressure to explain, convince, or educate
    Being expected to justify why emotional manipulation is harmful drains energy that is needed for healing.

    Recognizing these patterns is an important step toward clarity. Emotional manipulation becomes even more powerful when it is reinforced by others, especially at the moment a woman is seeking understanding and support.








    How Education Helps You Recognize Signs Emotional Manipulation Sooner

    Many women have found answers listening to The FREE Betrayal Trauma Recovery Podcast.

    Our BTR.ORG Group Sessions are a safe place to ask questions, process trauma, and express your emotions.

    If you’re unsure if what you’re experiencing is normal or toxic, take our free emotional abuse quiz to see if he’s using any one of the 19 different types of emotional abuse.

    TRANSCRIPT: Signs of Emotional Manipulation in Marriage

    Anne: I love hanging out with my good friend, Kate.

    Today we’re talking about signs of emotional manipulation, not just from your husband, but from other people he’s using to manipulate you.

    Because if he is manipulating you, he’s sometimes saying things in a loving, kind way and so he’s gonna talk to other people that way, and they’re gonna be like, “He seems so nice.” This is something that almost all 200 of the women that I’ve interviewed have faced, and Kate is really good at explaining why this happens.

    Kate: It’s not just religious. All culture is like, “Oh, you got to support your husband. You got to be the good wife.” I’m just like, “Support? What kind of support are you thinking? You mean like the first two years we were married where I just gave him so much love and support and it was amazing?” and then he lied.

    Anne: Sometimes really well-meaning people don’t realize that he’s been manipulating them.

    It’s extremely destabilizing when they don’t know what’s happening.

    Kate and I are going to focus on the manipulation that comes from outsiders like therapists, clergy, friends, family, whose responses, even though they’re well-meaning can leave women feeling isolated, blamed, or unsure of where to turn.

    So if you’re having marriage trouble, you need to hear this. We’re gonna talk about how you might respond to these comments.

    A lot of these responses might be for our own entertainment or benefit, like in our own head. We wouldn’t necessarily say this out loud, right, Kate?

    Kate: Yes!

    Anne: We need to be strategic in the way that we speak. If you’re interested in learning strategy, please take my workshop, go to btr.org/workshop where I give detailed instructions about strategic ways to respond to manipulators.

    Emotional Manipulation Through Well-Meaning But Hurtful Comments

    Kate and I aren’t necessarily doing strategy today. We’re more doing like what you can think in your own head so that you can feel better.

    So Kate, What’s a really common thing that betrayed women hear from outsiders who don’t actually understand the situation?

     Let’s just start with like rapid fire stuff we might hear from outsiders who have been manipulated.

    Kate: “Oh, you shouldn’t out your husband.”

    Anne: When they say, “out”, they mean you shouldn’t tell people the truth about what’s going on.

    Kate: If I say at church or anywhere that my husband is a addict, I’ve had people tell me, “Oh, you shouldn’t out your husband like that.” I’m like, “What? If he didn’t want to be outed, he shouldn’t have done it.”

    Anne: I know, and I shouldn’t have married him apparently.

    Kate: I love my story, I get to say whatever I want. It happened to me. He made his bed.

    Anne: And he shouldn’t have looked at it. So we’re even.

    Kate: If he didn’t want it, he shouldn’t have done it.

    Anne: Here’s another one a lot of people say, “He just needs your support.”

    Kate: Blech!

    Anne: Yeah, when we’re going for help, we’re telling people what’s going on, and they come back at us with a statement. Like if someone’s in addiction, they’re going to need your support and help. It feels terrible. I think in my head. Like what matters right now is what I need. I need his honesty. I need his fidelity.

    Kate: I’m like, “Support? What kind of support are you thinking? You mean, like the first two years we were married, where I gave him so much love and support, and it was amazing? And then he lied.”

    The Reality Of Supporting An Emotionally Manipulative Husband

    Anne: I supported his butt out of the house.

    Kate: I supported him by doing what was best for me.

    Anne: Which was best for him.

    Kate: Yes.

    Anne: This one I’ve actually said to people, but I couldn’t say it with a smile on my face. I was saying it out of pain. I said something like, “No one should ever ask a victim to support their abuser, ever.” It is important to point this out so women know how to recognize victim blaming.

    Kate: It’s so true. What do you mean to support him? You mean what I’ve already done for so long and it didn’t work? We’ve given them so much support.

    Anne: Yeah for me, I was managing things, so well. Supporting him so much that I didn’t realize how bad it was. Also those general principles that everybody tells us, like love, serve, forgive and support that are principles I believe into my core. I wasn’t willing to ditch those right off the bat and go with safety. I mean, I had to try supporting him.

    So I had to try making his therapy appointments and all that to get, to gain my own realization. That it was not going to work. What do you think? Have you ever met a woman who just went straight to boundaries.

    Kate: No, actually. I think it’s kind of normal. And I don’t necessarily see it as a bad thing. I see it as you have to try this one way to know it doesn’t work. It’s not just religious. All culture is like, “Oh, you got to support your husband. You got to be the good wife.” We are loving people, and we try it. Of course, we’ll want to help someone.




    Signs Of Emotional Manipulation: The Chocolate Cake Analogy

    Kate: Let’s say our husbands were healthy people and struggling. It would be good for us to help them. But yeah, we have to learn that our help will not help them like we think it will.

    Anne: Let’s say you bought a giant chocolate cake from Costco once a week. And your husband. Is like, Hey, I don’t want to eat chocolate cake anymore. Would you mind helping me? You’re like, “Sure, what can I do?” And he says, “Would you mind not buying chocolate cake from Costco every week?” And you’re like, yeah. No problem, happy to do that. And then he’s grateful. and he says, “Thank you for not buying chocolate cake. I super appreciate it.”

    And that’s it. You don’t buy the cake. He doesn’t need it. No big deal. When he ate chocolate cake, it didn’t hurt you. And it’s no big deal to not buy it. But with viewing explicit content he’s essentially gaslighting you and victim blaming you saying. “I need help not hurting you,” which is essentially saying, “If you did something different, I wouldn’t hurt you”.

    Kate: Exactly, it comes from the entitlement and resentments, so frustrating.

    Unhelpful Reactions From Others

    Anne: Another one I encountered was a woman who lived in my ex’s neighborhood, and I knew her from before. ” I said, I’m concerned about my kids. Can you keep an eye out for them?” I told her a little bit, and the whole time she looked uncomfortable. Instead of saying, “Of course, I’ll keep an eye out for them. This must be stressful to you!”

    She said, “It’s okay. I don’t know why you’re freaking out. Your kids are going to be fine.” I couldn’t think of anything to say in that moment. I don’t know if I should have said anything. I think I might’ve said, “It’s not okay. It’s not okay.” Then I just walked off because I was super mad.

    Kate: That makes no sense. I think I would have been like, “Thank you, I feel so much better! Yes, that is so helpful. Okay, not freaking out now.” Then just walk away with this ridiculous fake smile.

    Anne: You know what’s crazy? You saying it’s gonna be okay erases all the facts. I appreciate you waving your magic wand of the words, it’s okay, which apparently in your mind are magic and they make facts disappear, thank you.

    Kate: “You just magically made my husband better. Thanks!”

    Anne: “Or the situation, is now fine. Yeah, thanks.” Other things you can think of?

    The Misuse Of Forgiveness

    Kate: Forgiveness, “Just have a little more forgiveness for your husband.”

    Anne: When people say ‘forgiveness’ now, do you know Hamilton?

    Kate: Yes.

    Anne: ♫Forgiveness♫ I’m not singing it right because I can’t sing, but that word, when they sing it like that, it’s like this burst of peace coming through and happiness. It feels cool in the musical. For those familiar with Hamilton, you might know what I’m talking about. If you don’t, sorry, I didn’t mean to ruin it for you.

    Kate: Actually, when you said Hamilton, I was thinking of the stand up comedy from Katherine Ryan. I don’t know if I can watch Hamilton now because I will be thinking of her the entire time.

    Anne: Wait. When I said Hamilton, you were thinking who?

    Kate: Katherine Ryan does a stand up about Hamilton. She calls out the misogynistic crap in some of the parts. It is so funny. Anyway, sorry, sidetracked… the forgiveness. I’m like, “What do you mean forgiveness?” If it was something that was in the past and the threat was over, I could maybe understand. Even then, it’s still nobody else’s business. Forgiveness is not like all of a sudden, “okay, I’m done.”

    Sometimes it’s like baby steps. There are so many little things to forgive. It’s not just one big lump thing. So when someone says forgiveness, I’m like, “yes, maybe when the threat is over and I’ve had time to cool down.”

    Anne: Like how is me forgiving him going to stop him from harming me? This is the truth about forgiving abuse.

    Kate: Yeah, it doesn’t make any sense.

    Anne: I think this is a useful exercise. Forcing forgiveness is an effect of spiritual abuse.

    Signs Of Emotional Manipulation From Unsafe People

    Anne: There are safe people who we could actually have a conversation, explain how we feel, and talk about these things. They would be like, “Oh, yes. I’ve never thought about that before and I totally see it. I’m so sorry.”

    I have a super good friend who when neither of us knew what was happening, she said all the wrong things. But when I started talking to her about it and how I felt, she got it. She’s a safe person because she understood. She was like, “I can’t believe I said that stuff to you. I am so sorry. I was only trying to be helpful and I totally missed the boat.”

    The problem with trying to have a witty comeback or just the right thing to say to someone when they don’t understand is number one, you could hurt a safe person. Like if you’re snarky or sarcastic, it could actually hurt their feelings, and then it could push safe people away. The second thing is that if they’re never gonna be a safe person, you’re just setting yourself up for your abuser to groom other people around you that it’s your fault. They’ll think, “What is wrong with her? She’s rude.”

    Or, ” She doesn’t forgive. She doesn’t live a biblical life. Doesn’t she know she’s supposed to submit?”

    Kate: ” She’s must be so mean. Oh, the poor husband!”

    People Feel Sorry For Husbands

    Anne: I think in, at least our church culture, Kate and I have the same faith, a very outspoken woman, sometimes people feel sorry for her husband. Do you think that?

    Kate: Oh my gosh, yes. A million times over, yes. They will always feel way more sorry for the man than the woman. It’s obnoxious. Even my own family has done it. Everybody knows, it’s not a secret,

    Anne: But

    Kate: There was one time I mentioned in front of family members. He’s sitting right next to me. He knows this. I know this. It’s like my husband is enmeshed with his family in a bad way. But my sister ended up telling me, “You called out your husband?” They were feeling so bad for him, because he just sat there and didn’t say anything. He looked so embarrassed. I ended up asking my husband, “Were you embarrassed?” He’s like, “What? No.” He ended up actually writing them all a email.

    I mean, he sent it before he even told me he was going to do it. He basically was like, “No, I have ruined her life. I’ve done this, I’ve done this, I’ve done this. She’s still allowed to tell whoever she wants.” It was very validating, but it’s still frustrating, because even though he sent that email, I guarantee most people would still be like, “Yeah, but she must be so controlling. Maybe she forced him to write that email?” Or, “Oh, poor, poor man.” It’s frustrating.

    Go To A BTR Group Session To Process Hurtful Comments

    Anne: In our faith, it seems like a lot of the men might go in and confess to their clergy or something, and instead of getting some type of, “Whoa, this is serious. You are not following Jesus at all. Maybe we need to protect people from you because your behavior is pretty atrocious.” Instead of saying that a lot of times they’ll tell these abusers, “Oh, you’re not really that bad. You’re great.”

    Kate: “Oh, you just need more church. Go to the temple. Here, we’ll give you a calling; this will help you.”

    Anne: “Volunteer more. ” Yeah, exactly. If you need to process your own trauma through thinking, “Okay, these are the things I could have said.” Talk to your friends. Talk to Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group Session clients in a group session. because When someone says something like that to you, it causes an injury. Sometimes it can be pretty extreme. Sometimes it can be minor. It depends on where you are in your trauma healing process.

    Like now when people say stuff to me, the injury to me is a lot less than it used to be. But, to validate people who are like, “Why do these little comments the nice, 80 year old woman at church tells me, or my neighbor hurt me so much?” Maybe to just validate women and say, “Of course, they’re going to hurt you. Of course, you’re going to need to process it.”

    You’re going to go through this time in your head where you think, “What could I have said back to this person that could have either educated them or put them in their place?”

    Strategies To Respond To Signs Of Emotional Manipulation

    Anne: You don’t want to put an 80 year old woman in her place, that’s just not nice. And if they really, truly don’t want to get it, then educating them isn’t going to work. So validate that we need to process it. Then, to consider that it’s not our job, and we don’t have to worry about educating other people or putting them in their place.

    Kate: I think it’s beneficial to come up with the witty comments, but not necessarily to say them, because it doesn’t ever really help. I love coming up with the funny comments, but it’s more fun to then tell it to friends afterwards. It’s more funny then because that way you’re not hurting other people. But you can still find some humor in it so it doesn’t feel so heavy.

    I know that in some circumstances it is best not to say much. Because they’re going to try to make you in the wrong no matter what. There are many circumstances where I prefer to be vulnerable, not necessarily for them, but for me. Even if it’s just as simple as, “Oh, that kind of hurt my feelings.” Or, “Well, he’s hurt me a lot. I’m still processing.” I like to be vulnerable. That’s empowering for me. It actually gets the better responses from people, where they’re not defensive.

    Anne: Rather than a snarky, sarcastic one.

    Kate: They’re still not going to always want to learn, but it might help them think twice. But again, that’s not the reason. The reason is because it empowers me to be honest.

    Anne: I think being honest is always a good idea. My concern is safety.

    Engaging In Conversations About Trauma

    Anne: Could you put yourself in a place where you could be harmed by that person? We might think, “Oh, I’m not safe to say this to someone.” If we say, “I’m super sad because my husband is abusive.” If they don’t like us, however they felt before is how they’re going to feel after. It’s not like suddenly they’re going to be like, wow, I like you now, or I don’t like you now.

    You’re not going to change someone who really liked you and cared about you to someone who doesn’t like you and cared about you.

    Kate: Yeah, it does. I also think when it comes to safety, a lot of times I find that safety within me. Yes, somebody might make me feel unsafe, but it doesn’t make me feel unsafe to the point where I’m not going to say, “Hey, that hurt my feelings.” I’m still safe enough to do that, because it’s more empowering for me later on. It’s hard to explain. It’s hard to put this in words.

    I have not come across a time where I have been honest and vulnerable, and it made me more unsafe. And I was like, I shouldn’t have done that. Because I always learned from it. This isn’t going to work for everybody. I’m not saying everybody should be like this, because there are some horrible people out there. Sometimes the best thing is to not say anything.

    Deciding If It’s Safe To Share Trauma

    Anne: I think I was like that more at the beginning when I discovered about my ex husband’s addiction. I’d see somebody at Costco and they’d be like, “How are you?” I’d be like, “Really bad, I just found out my husband lied to me for six years, and he’s using pornography, and it stinks. But it’s super good to see you. How are you doing?”

    After that, they’d be like, “uh?” So I would do this quite a bit in the beginning, and now I’m less like that. Number one, because I’m not living in my trauma as much anymore. If they asked me, how am I doing today? I’d be like, “Great, I’m doing great. I ate a vegetable.”

    You know, it’s not like the thing on my mind. So it would be easy for me to talk about something else. I think I’ve learned to be a little more guarded, because I thought shouting it to the world would bring safety. If everybody knew, how could he do it? I realized that did not keep me safe. So for that reason, I think about safety a little differently than I thought before.

    Kate: It doesn’t go over too well when you’re like, “You know what? My husband just lied to me, and so I’m a little upset. I just found out he’s a big fat liar.”

    Anne: It goes over super well in Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group Sessions, or with a close friend, like Kate, who understands it.

    When Experiencing Signs Of Emotional Manipulation, Balance Honesty & Safety

    Anne: So if you have a safe place to go, then yeah, share it there.

    Kate: I think you can still be honest in those circumstances without actually saying all of it. You could just say, “You know what? Eh, I’m so so. I’m alive. I’m okay.” You don’t have to be like, “I’m great.” Then be like, “I’m dying inside.” You can still find ways to be honest.

    Anne: Saying something like, “Things are really, really hard for me right now.” And if they say, “Oh, what’s wrong?”

    Be like, ” I can tell you want to help and you care about me by asking me, but talking about it’s not going to help. You know what would help? If you fix my sprinklers. Or, bring me a pizza.

    Kate: That one would be great.

    Anne: We’re just exploring this together and that’s what the podcast is for.
  • Betrayal Trauma Recovery

    What Happened When I Googled “Celebrate Recovery Near Me”

    05/05/2026 | 32 mins.
    If you’re typing “Celebrate Recovery near me” into Google because you’re desperate for help after discovering that your husband has been lying to you about his infidelity or his use of inappropriate material, you’re not alone.

    BEFORE GOING TO CELEBRATE RECOVERY NEAR ME, CONSIDER THIS:

    1. Recovery Programs Only work If He’s Honest

    A recovery environment only works if your husband is completely honest about his behavior. Even in cases where he’s willing to attend a program, some women discover their husband takes “chips,” confesses slips, or shares breakthroughs in group without ever telling her. Not because he’s changing, but because he’s using the system to make it look like he’s changing.

    2. celebrate recovery near me Can’t Fix Emotional Abuse

    When women search “Celebrate Recovery near me,” they often think the program will help heal their marriage by helping their husbands understand the root causes of their addiction and behaviors, especially if he seems willing to go meetings. But the root issue isn’t addiction, it’s entitlement, control, and dishonesty. Most recovery programs aren’t designed to assess or confront coercive control.

    So instead of getting safer, some women end up feeling more confused.

    Before you invest your hope in any program, you deserve to understand the full picture. To discover if your husband is emotionally abusive, take this free emotional abuse quiz.

    3. Some Men Use Recovery or Language as a Shield

    Many women report that once their husband joined a recovery group like Celebrate Recovery near me, he just learned to speak the language of recovery without actually changing. Instead of becoming more honest, some men become more skilled at hiding, using the right words, sharing at the right times, and appearing accountable…while the underlying patterns stay the same.

    This isn’t necessarily the program’s fault. Recovery culture tends to take disclosures at face value. But for some men, it becomes a stage rather than a mirror.

    4. If He Gets Praise in Group but You Get Hurt at Home, Pay Attention

    The applause of a group like Celebrate Recovery near me can unintentionally reward performance. Your lived experience matters more than his report. If his recovery looks great publicly, but privately you feel scared, confused, dismissed, or blamed, that’s a sign to step back and observe what’s happening. You don’t have to announce this to anyone

    5. RECOVERY Programs Don’t Replace Betrayal Trauma Support

    A program like Celebrate Recovery near me often uses a model that focuses on his trauma from childhood or his triggers. They may encourage couples to build routines that reduce his stress or triggers, sometimes placing more responsibility on her to monitor or support his progress. These might be good tools for people who genuinely want to heal. But they don’t address lying, manipulation and entitlement.

    A woman in an emotionally abusive marriage needs support that centers her emotional safety, not his recovery timeline.

    6. If You Feel Worse After the Program Starts, That Matters

    Many women assume feeling worse is a sign that they’re a part of “the problem,” or they need to be “more supportive.” When his patterns of behavior become a shared problem…something you’re both expected to manage…it often creates more emotional chaos for her.

    Her emotional safety needs to be addressed separately, not tied to how well he’s doing or how much effort he appears to be making. Feeling confused, blamed, responsible for his recovery, or pressured to forgive and move forward…is a sign something else is happening.

    7. Your EMOTIONAL SAFETY COMES BEFORE HIS RECOVERY STORY

    If you’re searching “Celebrate Recovery near me” to save your marriage, here’s the most important thing: his recovery is not the foundation of your emotional safety. Your clarity is.

    It’s important to have your own support community in place that is educated in the dynamics of emotional and psychological abuse and can help you decide what you need for emotional safety.

    If you need support in addressing what’s really happening, and whether a recovery program can help, you can start with the Living Free Workshop or BTR Group Sessions. They’re designed to give you immediate clarity.

    Transcript: What Happened When I Googled “Celebrate Recovery Near Me”

    Anne: I’ve talked to hundreds of women who have typed things like “Celebrate Recovery near me”, or “addiction recovery program” into Google. Especially when their husband said he was an addict and he is willing to go to a program. So if he’s willing and goes to this program, it’s totally normal for a woman to think that things are gonna get better. But over the years, I’ve interviewed countless women who tell me things actually got worse.

    And I’m interviewing one of those women today. We’re gonna call her. Nancy. Here’s part of her story.

    Nancy: His coworker called me. She told me she was out with some friends. And he flirted with her and tried to pick her up. We were Going to Celebrate Recovery. He supposedly had been sober for months.

    Anne: We’re gonna get to her whole story, but before we do, I wanna stress that it’s important to understand that a manipulative man can use anything, a recovery program, therapy, even meeting with clergy to manipulate a woman further, and that causes a lot more harm and trauma. So before you start searching for a recovery program for your husband, it is important to consider what his recovery would be for and how abusers manipulate their victims. Most of the time, the therapist will say something like childhood wounds or addiction recovery.

    When really what you’re actually experiencing is emotional and psychological abuse. And I’ve even interviewed women who have tried to find an abuse program for their husband, and they still tell me the same things. So as you listen to Nancy’s story, I think it will help put into perspective what’s really going on and what steps you wanna take next.

    When I met him I thought he was a good guy

    Anne: That’s why I created the Living Free Workshop. It helps women know what’s going on, if he’s really abusive or not. Some women find out he’s not. And then what steps to take to create emotional safety in your life. It’s much faster to figure that out first, before spending tons of time and money in therapy or a recovery or Celebrate Recovery near me program.

    Living Free total run time is about two hours and 50 minutes, which is much shorter than three or four years to find out it’s not working.

    So Nancy, thank you so much for sharing your story today. Welcome, can you tell us how you met?

    Nancy: When I met him, he went to church. He served on the worship team, and he could talk like a preacher. So I thought he was a good guy. It was confusing, because we were play wrestling, and I wouldn’t have remembered this except I had written in a journal and I read it after everything fell apart. He held me down and said some things like, did you think you were stronger than me? Did you think I would let you go? It really scared me.

    I was very close to breaking up with him, but he actually cried and apologized. So I thought, he’s sorry. It’s not gonna happen again, and that sort of thing never happened again. He realized he had to be more subtle. He did tell me about his past sexual history.

    Mirroring my desire to serve missions

    Nancy: He was in the Navy and with several prostitutes. And he was honest, it felt like to me at the time. That he struggled with porn. I thought after we married, that wouldn’t be an issue. And honestly, I don’t know that anyone would’ve told me anything different.

    I wanted to serve in medical missions. He didn’t seem interested in this, so I prayed and left the relationship in God’s hands. I told him about how I prayed. And the next time we got together, he said, “He had been thinking and praying, and he really felt God moving his heart to missions. That everyone always thought he should be a missionary. It really blew me away, because I thought God had answered my prayer really fast. He knew that he was not only lying to me, he was also lying about God, and he chose it. Which makes him a really evil person.

    In pre-marital counseling, I was clear that I didn’t see myself as a housewife. I wanted things to be equal, and I didn’t plan to stop working. He acted like he was on the same page and that he was fine with this. So we married. Things were not good. In less than a year, he turned me down for sexual intimacy. Which was surprising and incredibly hurtful. Especially when I realized he was looking at porn.

    We went to see the movie Fireproof, and afterwards he admitted he was taking off his ring to flirt with people. I was trying to be very understanding, but I did feel hurt, and he got angry at me. He said this was the thanks he gets for staying away from porn for a couple weeks, which is not funny, but I’m laughing at the audacity.

    He Pushed Me to Quit Working While Avoiding Any Real Recovery or Celebrate Recovery Near Me Programs

    Nancy: I think I blocked a lot of it out, because somehow things were good enough back and forth between nice, the Christian thing, and when he would be not so nice. I didn’t recognize abuse. The only thing I could put my finger on was the sexual things.

    We never could solve how things were to be run. And now that we had children, he could step away and I would be forced to do more house duties, cooking, cleaning, et cetera. Because someone had to do all the things for the children. I would tell him what we had agreed before marriage, and he said, “Yeah, but I thought you would change after we had kids.”

    Anne: I said the same thing. I said, I’m not gonna cook. And he was like, no problem. Then later told me, I thought you would change. And I’m like, I was so clear.

    Nancy: Exactly, we’re both honest and open. It’s like, that doesn’t mean I have to change, just ’cause you thought I would change. Well, it did because we had children now that needed to be taken care of.

    Anne: Right.

    Nancy: The same thing I said, I didn’t wanna stop working.” And he would constantly try to get me to stop working. I was only working part-time. He wanted me to not have an escape route. We separated, but I was so exhausted and overwhelmed with a baby, 2-year-old, and a 5-year-old. We got back together pretty quickly.

    Discovering he was flirting with coworker

    Nancy: A year later, we separated again and went to couples counseling, ’cause I still had not seen how that was harmful. I was really hopeful, which seems funny after just like a week or two of separation. But his coworker called me and told me she had been out with some friends, and he was flirting with her and trying to pick her up.

    I thought this would be his rock bottom, because he’s almost lost his family. Anyway, we got back together and things were up and down. I was dealing with a lot of anger and depression, social anxiety. At the time, I thought I needed counseling to deal with my issues. We were going to Celebrate Recovery near me. His stated problems in Celebrate Recovery were sex addiction and anger. It’s so crazy knowing that, how could everybody there not believe anything I was saying?

    He supposedly had been sober for months because of all the addiction model stuff. We agreed that he would tell me if he ever had a slip within a certain amount of time. So at Celebrate Recovery, he went forward for a one-day chip, and that really shocked me because he wasn’t ever gonna tell me. When we agreed that he would.

    After that we had sex that was definitely, obviously coercive. I don’t think I had the words at the time, but I definitely felt that way because we had an agreement and he didn’t follow it. That was the last time we ever were together.

    He said he would throw me a 30th birthday party

    Nancy: I took a step back, and I was observing him because I felt like we were at the best place, and I’m actually an okay person. That means there’s nothing I’ve done wrong, literally. And there’s nothing I can do to change this. It just became increasingly clear to me.

    So I started looking for more information and came across BTR, but I didn’t listen to the episodes because I saw the word abuse. And thought that doesn’t apply to me. And I found a couple other podcasts. They didn’t fully explain everything, and then a really bad incident happened when I turned 30, a big birthday.

    Anne: They always do it on birthdays and holidays.

    Nancy: I know, I had always thrown him birthday parties. He’s an extrovert and that was something that he enjoyed and I didn’t mind, he didn’t throw me anything because I’m more of an introvert. So when I was going to turn 30, I told him that I’d like a birthday party and would like him to throw it for me. I said if he didn’t want to, let me know. ‘Cause it was important enough to me that I would throw it for myself. He said he would throw me the birthday party.

    But when I wasn’t seeing any preparations, I checked in with him. And the motions he made came across like he was planning a surprise birthday party.

    Anne: Like, let’s not talk about it. Or you might ruin your surprise.

    Nancy: Exactly, I had said, “I will throw it for myself.” I repeated that again, that time. He knew.




    He Claimed He ‘Forgot’ My Birthday While Pretending Recovery Through SAA and Celebrate Recovery Near Me Groups

    Nancy: So my birthday comes up. I expect a surprise party around any corner. I come to the end of the day and nothing happened, nothing. And his excuse was forgetfulness.

    Anne: I never gave you the impression I was gonna throw you a party.

    Nancy: Yeah, It was always that gaslighting and blame shifting. I feel like I dissociated a little bit around that time. ‘Cause it was really hurtful, because I would have thrown it for myself.

    Anne: And he knew that and he gave you the impression that he was throwing you a party on purpose to ensure that you didn’t have a party.

    Nancy: Exactly, I actually believed him that it was on accident, but that was just as hurtful. Now, I believe it was fully on purpose. At the time I was going to COSA and he was going to an SAA group.

    Anne: When she says COSA or SAA, she’s talking about 12-Step recovery for pornography addicts or sexual addicts. There are other programs like Celebrate Recovery near me. And the COSA is a co sex addict’s 12-Step for a wife of an addict, where she basically does the same program he does and tries to fix her character defects.

    Nancy: Yeah, I’d been talking about giving him another chance to throw me a party, and they said if he already didn’t do it, you should not do that. So I ended up throwing myself a party. After that 30th birthday, I would get down around my birthday every year. I ended up telling him that, not in a way to blame him, because like I said, I didn’t think he had done it on purpose. I just thought I should let him know I wasn’t myself.

    Recognizing Gaslighting in real time

    Nancy: And it was the first time I recognized what he was doing in the moment, he started to say. “That had not happened. That didn’t sound like something he would’ve done, that my memory must be a little off.” So many different ways he was trying to convince me that it hadn’t happened, and he couldn’t convince me because I knew it had happened. So he switched tactics and said that maybe he should get counseling for being abused.

    Anne: He’s claiming that you’re abusing him.

    Nancy: Exactly, I was so confused. I asked him, “Abuse, what are you talking about? Am I being abusive right now?”

    And he goes, “No, the abuse I’ve had to endure for the last how many years.” And then I realized oh, that was gaslighting. That’s blame shifting, and I ended up leaving the room and cried on my own.

    It shook me up that he could take something very vulnerable and turn it on me like that. I was talking about that incident and how he was saying I was abusive and I heard myself saying, “It was surprising he would call me abusive when he’s been so much worse.” And that was the first time I thought maybe he is abusive, and that reminded me about BTR. I thought, let me listen to that, ’cause maybe I can get some insight. That brought me back to listening to the BTR podcast.

    And I vividly remember I was binging all these episodes, hearing women’s stories. It felt like my life. And it just blew my mind to realize I’ve been abused this whole time.

    Anne: I’m so sorry. You were experiencing Betrayal Trauma and were not aware that recovery or Celebrate Recovery near me programs wouldn’t help you.

    Addict model says he’s struggling, he’s not in control

    Nancy: It made sense. It felt like everything clicked into place. Everything else I was told didn’t make sense. I always talked about stuff. I was always looking for answers. And I never felt like I was codependent or that I needed codependents anonymous. None of that stuff seemed to fit. In fact, the advice I was given, “Don’t pay attention to what he’s doing. Only work on yourself.” While they’re also saying, “Don’t be codependent, ignore what he’s doing,” which just doesn’t work.

    The addict model, like he’s struggling, he’s trying, he’s not in control. I mean, that’s like step one. You’re powerless to control your behavior. He accepted the addiction model early on, and we were in and out of groups the whole time. But I don’t believe now that he’s an addict, and I don’t think he even thinks he’s an addict. It’s a great excuse to keep doing what you’re doing. Because there’s no accountability, and everyone applauds your efforts. Even if you’re not reaching the goal, you actually have a choice.

    He would say to me that he could not promise that he would never do any of the sexual stuff again. So it was like basically just saying, I’m gonna be doing this my whole life.

    Anne: My ex wouldn’t promise either. He said if I promised, “I wouldn’t be on my toes. Like I don’t want to think I couldn’t do that, because then maybe I would be in danger of doing it.” Which doesn’t even make sense. Like I can legit say, I will never have an affair.

    finding BTR helped me wrap my head around the abuse, Celebrate Recovery near me didn’t

    Nancy: Right, yeah. I found BTR. And the abuse model is they have a choice, and they’re choosing to be harmful and abusive. All these years he had been a liar. I stepped back and observed behavior for me to fully wrap my head around it.

    I believe he feels entitled to do what he wants. He doesn’t see people as people. Or maybe it’s just women as women. Objectification is a huge thing. I don’t think he ever saw me as an equal partner or a person. And I don’t believe he ever loved me. I was a desirable object he acquired, and that was it.

    When I started listening to BTR, it helped me understand abuse and the subtleties of it. Because before, I had only been thinking physical abuse or yelling insults, which my ex did not do. Listening to the stories helped me see how this plays out in marriage, even in a Christian marriage.

    It was helpful to see the ways men could twist faith things, because many of these men and my ex are very manipulative. Like it has to slowly play out over time to see what they’re doing. And a lot of it goes back to intent, and it’s hard to see intent. It was hard for me to imagine my husband is lying to me.

    So that was a shift too, to start looking at actions instead of words. BTR gave me a lot of insight into what I was living through and what was helpful, especially getting into the BTR groups. Celebrate Recovery near me didn’t do that.

    It helps build you up so that you can go through the hard stuff. We were going to counseling around the time I started going to BTR group.

    Going to couple counseling

    Nancy: Because of BTR, I had the words for it. I was able to express better what was happening. The counselor didn’t help my situation, of course. Individual counseling and couple counseling are unhelpful, because an abuser’s goal, my ex’s goal, was not to get better. His goal is to get whatever he wants. He’ll say whatever he needs to say to get what he needs from the counselor. We’ve gone to quite a few couple counselors. We would go into a new counselor, and he would bring up a new issue. He had never told me about me.

    Anne: Suddenly you’re a kleptomaniac or something.

    Nancy: Yeah, things that he thought I did that were hurtful to him, that I had never heard of before. But I felt so bad that I was hurting him without knowing it. What a callous person I am.

    Anne: Not knowing he was bearing false witness and that he literally made it up.

    Nancy: Yeah, completely distracted from why we went to counseling in the first place is sexual issues. Like I would have to be a safe person so he could be honest with me. Because I’m an actual caring person, I would feel like this was an actual issue that I needed to fix. And that is the part about the psychological abuse that is hard to describe. Because a lot of it could sound valid, and I thought these things were valid. But later realizing they were lies. They were lies, because he would’ve said them before.

    Anne: Exactly.

    creepy experience with new counselor

    Nancy: We did an in-home separation, At first. His abuse escalated the freer that I was getting. I never completely stopped working. I got a job and started after the in-home separation. He actually shut off the internet. Luckily, I prepared ahead of time. I had my own phone plan with the hotspot, So I could just switch over and just didn’t even engage with him.

    It has been a process of combing through my life, and I have wondered that how many lies I won’t even know about or remember. Because, I believed him and he was so good at lying. One of the new things he said was I wasn’t being vocal enough in bed. It felt so humiliating for him to say that to the new counselor. When he had never said that before.

    This male counselor wanted us to do an exercise right then on the sofa in front of him. He wanted my ex to touch like my foot or my leg, and then slowly move closer to my private areas. And as he moved closer. I was supposed to make more and more noise.

    Anne: No.

    Nancy: Isn’t that crazy?

    Anne: That’s so creepy.

    Nancy: I did feel incredibly creeped out, and I refused to do it.

    Anne: Good for you.

    He said there would be no equality in our marriage – Celebrate Recovery near me didn’t help with that

    Nancy: I wish I had just walked out, But after we left, I said, “I will never go back to that counselor again.” And we never did. I said, “What I would need to continue in the marriage was for him to be seeing his own personal counselor, to have a full disclosure with a lie detector test.” Which he said no to. And I know now it wouldn’t have been helpful. Just like Celebrate Recovery near me wasn’t helpful.

    Anne: I know, thank goodness.

    Nancy: Right.

    Anne: Mine never did that either. And I think I would’ve just been in the abuse for so much longer had he said yes.

    Nancy: Right, and then the second thing I said is that, “I wanted equality in our marriage.” And he said no.

    Anne: He said no, he didn’t want equality?

    Nancy: Correct.

    Anne: Wow.

    Nancy: So I was like, then literally that’s the end of it. And I was going to BTR group. I remember one of the coaches said to me, “It was a blessing that he actually had been honest.” At the time, I didn’t understand, now I do. And I’m so glad I asked those questions. I don’t know why he was honest. There are two possibilities. He didn’t think I would leave, because I hadn’t yet. We’d been married for almost 14 years, and he was only saying what was already true.

    You don’t need to be perfect to be loved

    Nancy: I just didn’t realize it was true. Or maybe he did want me to leave. I had some conversations with his mom. Because I found BTR, and surprisingly, she said it made her realize she was in an abusive relationship with my ex’s dad. However, she still felt like I should stay. Because she felt like the Lord had taught her so much and she had grown through all these trials.

    I have sympathy for her, but it’s so wrong. All of a sudden it just became very clear to me that if I stayed for the kids, it was actually putting them more at risk. And honestly, that conversation solidified that I had to leave for the kids. If you’re not sure yet if your partner is abusive, Just listen to some BTR stories and see what jumps out at you.

    You are a worthy human being that does not have to be perfect to be loved and treated with respect. Reconciliation is not necessary for forgiveness, and you don’t have to forgive anyone. It’s more of a process that can happen on its own time, and no one should force it. Pay much closer attention to someone’s actions over time than the words they say. And it’s never too late to make different choices when you learn or understand new information.

    I feel like having to make a choice that is wildly unpopular with people around you. Church, that I had to learn in a new way. Maybe for the first time, to not let what people thought about me affect the decisions that I make that part has been really hard because a church we were going to was not supportive at first.

    Call from somebody in Celebrate Recovery near me group

    Nancy: Some of them seemed supportive, and even the ones I thought were supportive, in the end weren’t. I actually got a phone call from somebody in my Celebrate Recovery near me group. She called me up to ask me if I was seeing a counselor. Because I still seemed angry. I was speechless, of course I’m angry.

    Anne: Yeah

    Nancy: I didn’t even know how to respond to her. I just told her yes, I’m in BTR group and got off the phone. There’s nothing wrong with being angry about the situation. I feel like church tells women they shouldn’t be angry. But Jesus was angry. There’s nothing wrong with being angry.

    Anne: Yeah, I feel like if you’re not angry, something’s wrong.

    Nancy: Right.

    Anne: I mean, nothing is wrong with you. You might be numb, you might be sad. I went through periods where I wasn’t super angry. I was just really depressed, but on the whole oppressed, abused, exploited people, their anger is from God to help liberate themselves from the oppression. But of course, the abuser does not want you to liberate yourself. He said flat out he didn’t want you to be equal. That is infuriating.

    Nancy: And now he wanted 50/50 custody. It was very upsetting, because my ex had been very non-helpful around the house and with the kids. It was hard to think that he would want 50/50.

    Anne: But of course he did.

    Nancy: I didn’t see that coming, and I wish I had been more prepared and could have been more strategic.

    Listening to him lie in the courtroom

    Nancy: I could not wrap my mind around that at the time. I had seen more and more abuse as my eyes were open. So I couldn’t wrap my mind around 50/50 custody. I was under the delusion that justice was in the court system. I found out, even though I know he lies, it was a big shock to listen to him lying in the Courtroom. It’s hard to witness.

    It’s something I wish I had processed before, because I’m sure that was pointed out to me. But I couldn’t process that as a reality back then. The Living Free Workshop was so helpful. And going to group and getting help constantly. The Living Free Workshop is so different than anything you’ve ever been taught.

    I don’t know how I would’ve made it through this, honestly. That was another thing that was really helpful. There were some scripts in Living Free to get him on Our Family Wizard, and he actually got on it easily. I was surprised. I didn’t think he would get on as easily as he did, and just not responding in any other way.

    Anne: That’s the thing, they’re desperate to talk to you. With the workshop, everybody says, how am I gonna make him go on OFW? And if you do the script and stick to it and do not deviate. Legit, don’t deviate. Once you’re on Our Family Wizard, literally block him on your phone, so he has no other way of contacting you. He is desperate to get your attention and your belief, like Living Free says, yeah, they’re so transactional. And if you respond through Our Family Wizard, he will find a way to do it.

    he performs for others in groups like Celebrate Recovery near me and in court

    Anne: They’re like, well, this is what I gotta do to talk to her, because I’m blocked otherwise. They will move. It might take a month. I’ve had it take the longest six weeks with one woman that I was working with. Every single time he texted, she said, “Hey, I’ve responded on Our Family Wizard.”

    Nancy: Right. It felt overwhelming, because he kept sending me long, manipulative messages, but I responded on Our Family Wizard. It only took me once for him to switch. Being on OFW was better.

    Oh, one of the books BTR recommends, The Woman They Could Not Silence. I read it and that was awesome. It helped open up my mind to spiritual abuse. It’s been inspiring to me this whole time. What she went through being separated from her children. That book has been really inspiring.

    The thought of leaving them with him, terrifying to me. We went through two rounds of court. He would make it sound like I was controlling and not letting him do things. Like why wouldn’t I let him take the kids to half of the doctor’s appointments when he never came to a pregnancy appointment? And same with field trips. He’ll go on field trips now, and I feel like it’s just to keep me from going. It. He never wanted to before.

    Anne: If he was actually a good dad, he would’ve been doing it before, but since he’s only doing it now, he is just performing.

    Nancy: Yes, it’s a performance because he’s getting something out of it from other people, like in in celebrate recovery near me, and it’s punishment for me because he knows how much I like being there for the kids.

    Reluctance to support anything he can’t control

    Nancy: When we married, he didn’t want us to do extracurricular activities. He didn’t even want free after school activities, much less anything you would have to pay for. He was only okay with youth group attached to his job, not the free after school activities.

    But since we’ve been divorced, he has them interested in hockey, which is one of the most expensive and time consuming sports there is. It’s very strange from my entire experience with him. He never talked about hockey, and he never wanted them involved. At the same time, he is not wanting to pay half of necessary expenses, like medical or orchestra uniforms. For a long time, I was not asking for half of necessary expenses. Because I didn’t wanna have to deal with him because he makes it such a struggle.

    Anne: My ex is exactly like that, exactly. When my book comes out, I’m anxious for you to read it, because it was all about control. Like, if I’m paying you anything or if I’m involved in any way, I have to control it.

    Nancy: Yeah, like my youngest wanted to do karate. His dad would not participate even when I offered to pay the whole thing. Other son was invited to concert band, and his dad said no.

    Anne: Think about the power trip that gives him that he’s able to manipulate them away from their natural interests. And maybe hockey is something that he wants to do. Like he thinks karate’s dumb, but he thinks hockey’s interesting.

    Draining my bank account and controlling my time

    Nancy: It is a huge expense that is very draining. When he won’t even pay half of an AP test.

    Anne: And that might be part of it. He’s, let’s pick the most expensive thing to drain her bank account.

    Nancy: Yeah, it was a double bind to drain my bank account and control my time. And at the same time, if I have to back out of it. He’ll say, sorry, kids, Mom won’t let us go to hockey.

    Anne: He’s calculating ways to set you up to be the bad guy.

    Nancy: Yes, he is an expert at setting up situations, so my bank account is being drained, and I cover a hundred percent of their insurance.

    Anne: With a lot of these post-separation abuse situations. They get the benefits, but they don’t have any of the responsibilities, and they can use it against you, but it never works for you. They can bend the rules in order to benefit them, but you can’t bend the rules.

    Nancy: In the Living Free Workshop. It was helpful to see how to deal with narcissistic abuse in marriage and how it plays out in separation, to find a way out of it. There was one thing you said, and this is when you’re moving away from his harm. You said, “If he escalates, remember that protecting yourself from the harm is not the cause of the harm. Just like evacuating a building was not the cause of the exploding gas lines.”

    He still wants to get together

    Nancy: That really hit me. One of the things that keeps haunting me is did I do the right thing? He still tries to get together personally with me. It constantly comes up that he wants to get together for coffee, or would I go to counseling with him, co-parenting counseling. I mostly ignore it at this point because he’s asked so many times. I don’t even answer him. Then if something goes wrong with the money situations or if there’s a point of disagreement, he will say, if you would’ve only met with me like I’ve asked, then this would’ve already been stopped.

    Anne: Yeah, we could’ve worked it out somehow, no. He would still lie.

    Nancy: It’s a trap. There’s that little 2% of me left that feels like, well, maybe I should meet with him, but no, it’s a trap.

    Anne: Yeah, no.

    Nancy: Because he never intends to do a nice thing. He just wants to get me in front of him again. I don’t think any good would come of it.

    Anne: A hundred percent, no. It might seem good, ’cause once you get there, it might seem good. He might like to turn on the manipulative lies to make you feel like he cares. I think one of the most abusive things people can say is, I love you or that I care. So manipulating you in that way is actually dangerous, and that’s probably what would happen.

    Nancy: I don’t think I could keep a straight face. It would skive me out so bad to be around him and hear stuff like that.

    Everything he says is the opposite of the truth

    Anne: Well, it’s just further evidence of his controlling nature, because he desperately wants to hang on to control. And so he’s increasing his lies because it’s getting away from him. That’s definitely a sign that he’s been lying the whole time.

    Nancy: I completely agree. I know that this is better for them in the long run, but in the short run, that sentence helps me right now. That was probably one of the hardest things for me to come to terms with, is that he never loved me. He doesn’t love the children. None of it’s real. It’s all lies, and he still does it. It’s mind-boggling. Everything he says is the opposite of what the truth is. He continues lying as he did in programs like Celebrate Recovery near me.

    As we were moving through the separation process, the boys did not want to leave and crying and like holding onto the car seats. It was horrible. I knew if I said anything to him, he wouldn’t care. Any altercation would be scary for the kids. So I started getting third party exchange people through a new church.

    I actually found a church with a woman pastor, which is quite lovely. The new church was helpful and supportive, and there were several people that would help me with exchanges. And things changed, like taking the Living Free Workshop, and suddenly I felt a lot stronger. I had a new understanding and confidence, so I stopped doing the third party exchanges.

    He actually met with the principal to try to get the principal to agree with him that I’m not allowed to go into the school on his parenting weeks.

    like in celebrate recovery near me, A clear example of him lying, controlling and abusing

    Nancy: Which isn’t true. You’re allowed to visit your kid in the school.

    Anne: Absolutely.

    Nancy: Unless there’s a restraining order, which there’s not. We have shared custody, but he made it sound like the principal agreed with him. I didn’t think it was the truth, but it scared me at the time. And we were about to have a party, and I signed up to bring food, so I worried I would be kicked out. But the principal didn’t say anything. Isn’t that a clear example of parental alienation?

    Anne: It’s a clear way of him undermining your relationship with your kids, lying, controlling, and abusing you. This is how he’s literally abusing you and your children.

    Nancy: Everybody heard about this incident, and it didn’t matter. He made it sound like he had just been concerned for the children’s wellbeing.

    Anne: Yeah, no.

    Nancy: My being around them upset them.

    Anne: Lies. That’s the issue they lie in programs like Celebrate Recovery near me and fool the leaders.

    Nancy: It’s lies at times it is possible that they might be upset, but it’s not because they’re scared of me. It’s more that they’re sad about the situation.

    My one son, he told me, it makes him sad to see me when he knows he has to go back to his dad’s. My daughter had a phone before we separated, but he wouldn’t allow communication between the boys and me ever. Once, my son called me using his sister’s phone. He was crying. I was only on the phone for about two or three minutes, and then the phone cut off. And they told me when they came back that he had been mad at them for calling me.

    Even if there is a court order they will find away around it

    Nancy: He wouldn’t allow them to have a watch phones either. That’s one of the reasons we went back to court.

    Anne: That’s the problem with court. You think if we get it in writing, then he’ll do it, but it doesn’t matter. He is not gonna do it no matter what.

    Nancy: This is what I have learned. I don’t ever wanna go back to court again, because it doesn’t help. No matter what you do, they’ll find a new way to cause harm. So there’s no point in any kind of new order. ‘Cause then they’ll find a new way around it.

    Anne: Exactly.

    Nancy: I’m still glad I went, because before I had been worried I had to do everything exactly perfectly or something would go wrong. And then I realized he’s doing wrong things on purpose. He just says stuff to get what he wants and nobody cares. So that has relieved a lot of fear.

    Anne: What would you share with listeners about what you’ve learned so far about finding help, maybe from Celebrate Recovery near me or elsewhere?

    Nancy: You know, hearing other people’s stories have meant so much to me, Living Free and the BTR coaches set me up for success. They told me to transfer half of our money to a separate bank account before I even told him that I might be leaving. That was incredibly helpful because I’m not sure if it would’ve been easy for me to get the money. I never used the word abuse or narcissism to him. That played out well, because he would’ve twisted it against me.

    Anne: A hundred percent.

    Kids need to know what a safe place feels like

    Nancy: Getting on the parenting app, super helpful, third parties for switches. Finding people to help with the things you need is just a lifesaver. I do feel like it will be better for the kids in the future, because they can be in a peaceful setting that’s not manipulative.

    So when they’re making decisions. About how they want to live and their future partners, that they know what it feels like to be in a safe place and being able to have discussions with them about men’s and women’s roles.

    Anne: Nancy, thank you so much for sharing your story today. And helping others who are searching, to find something truly helpful.

    Nancy: Thank you.
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About Betrayal Trauma Recovery
No woman wants to face the horror of her husband’s betrayal. Or have to recover from the emotional, physical & financial trauma and never-ending consequences. But these courageous women DID. And we’ll walk with you, so YOU can too. If you’re experiencing pain, chaos, and isolation due to your husband’s lying, anger, gaslighting, manipulation, infidelity, and/or emotional abuse… If he’s undermined you and condemned you as an angry, codependent, controlling gold-digger… If you think your husband might be an addict or narcissist. Or even if he’s “just” a jerk… If your husband (or ex) is miserable to be around, this podcast is for YOU.
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