Betrayal Trauma Recovery

Many women quietly search how to prepare for divorce long before they say anything out loud. Preparing for divorce isn’t just paperwork. It’s emotional, strategic, and deeply personal.

How To Prepare for Divorce: A Practical Guide for Women

Below are four essential steps to help you prepare for divorce with clarity.

1. Get Educated About Divorce

When women start researching how to prepare for divorce, they often focus only on legal logistics. But emotional and communication strategies matter just as much. It’s important to understand…

How to set boundaries during separation

How some spouses escalate when control shifts

What communication patterns protect you

What NOT to disclose too early

2. Profile Your Husband

One of the most overlooked parts of learning how to prepare for divorce is predicting how your husband will react.

Why this matters: Divorce often changes dynamics. A man who seemed calm in marriage may become reactive when he realizes he is losing control.

Knowing likely behaviors ahead of time allows you to:

Plan communication carefully

Avoid unnecessary confrontations

Protect documentation

Prepare emotionally

Strategic preparation reduces chaos. The Living Free Workshop walks women through identifying patterns so they can anticipate reactions before filing papers.

3. Find the Right Emotional Support

Preparing for divorce can feel isolating. Even strong, capable women feel shaken. You may need:

A space to process fear

Validation when others minimize

Guidance on specific issues that aren’t covered on divorce “checklists”

Community with women who understand

A support group like Betrayal Trauma Recovery provides emotional support tailored specifically for women navigating betrayal and separation.

The team at Betrayal Trauma Recovery are not just certified divorce coaches, they’re trauma-informed coaches who understand the emotional toll of deception, gaslighting, and chronic instability.

Divorce may be a legal process, but it’s also an emotional journey. Having the right support can make the difference.

4. Have Hope That You Can Thrive After Divorce

When researching how to prepare for divorce, many women feel fear about the unknown:

What will life look like?

Will I regret this?

Will my kids be okay?

Can I really rebuild?

Worry is normal. But listening to stories from other women who have walked this road can provide strength. The FREE Betrayal Trauma Recovery Podcast shares real experiences from women who navigated divorce and found clarity, safety, and stability on the other side.

Hearing those stories can help you see that divorce isn’t the end of your story.

Transcript: How To Prepare For Divorce

Anne: I have asked my friend Debra Doak author of High Conflict Divorce for Women, Your Guide to Coping Skills and Learning Strategies for All Stages of Divorce. So for women wondering how to prepare for divorce, this interview is for you.

Welcome Debra.

Debra: Thank you. I’m thrilled to be here.

How Common Is Divorce Regret?

Anne: So many women who have been through a divorce are like, ah, things would have gone so much better if I would have known this. Or if I would have known that.

Debra: We don’t know what we don’t know. And as traumatized women, we often either underreact or overreact. Both of those things can put us in a poor position when it comes to divorce. We’re also often the lower earners, or stay at home parents, and can get hurt quickly in this process if not prepared, get caught off guard. We’re also more likely to make emotional decisions, instead of strategic decisions looking out for long-term well-being.

And as we know, we are also likely to trust when trust isn’t really deserved. When you trust an untrustworthy person in divorce, sometimes that can come back to bite you.

Anne: A lot of women aren’t interested in doing the Living Free Workshop, even though it’s for married, separated and divorced women. It’s just about strategy, but they don’t want to do it because they think. I only need to think about strategy in the worst case scenario. They want to focus on their marriage working out.

Debra: When women are trying to make that stay, wait, or go decision. Having been through betrayal trauma myself, we take baby steps. Let’s get copies of financial documents, get a little more in the loop on finances. Let’s start setting a little money aside. So we kind of just put the tip our toe in the water of getting ready.

Observing from a Safe Distance

Debra: While we’re going to give 150%, 100% to the marriage, and maybe 50 or 40 percent to setting yourself up just in case.

Anne: Yeah, that’s exactly what the Living Free Workshop is about, how to observe from a safe distance. While determining his true character, what reality anticipates is what’s going to happen next. Also focusing on your own goals. So there is a section of Living Free that educates women about divorce. If they’re not interested, they can skip that part. But it’s just basic divorce education, which is important for every woman to have no matter what her situation is.

Debra: Yeah, definitely is. I mean, preparation makes any divorce go more smoothly. Because when we act out of fear, we don’t make good decisions. And so even if you don’t have a high conflict person, divorce can still be very conflicted. In the case where you’ve been with an emotional abuser, you need to be prepared for what could happen. There’s a great test to see if he’s emotionally abusive, click here for that.

The sense of entitlement that’s allowed them to behave in the ways they’ve behaved during the marriage. It is also a sense of entitlement that can cause a switch to flip when the woman decides to divorce them.

Anne: Yeah, it’s hard to even wrap your head around the fact that they might flip that switch. And that happened in my case, it happens in almost every case I see. Where a woman was manipulated to think he would always pay child support or alimony.

How To Secretly Prepare For Divorce

Anne: And to be in the position where he’s not even remotely, the person you thought he was, is so alarming. And because we’ve all been through that stage where we think, he’s not going to do that to me. That’s not going to happen to me. I think all women, I mean, in high school or college, or somewhere, we all need education about divorce.

Debra: For the women who don’t believe it’s going to happen to them. A common, what I call, dirty divorce trick is spousal starvation, and suddenly he reroutes that paycheck. Now you don’t have gas and groceries. What are you going to do? I hope your husband is a nice guy and negotiates fairly throughout, but what harm would it do if we had a little emergency savings account? What would it hurt if you took a few steps to protect you just in case?

Anne: Yeah, because as you start getting healthier and setting boundaries. They will either improve, and they’re going to get it, or they’re going to get worse. But it’s not going to stay the same.

Debra: It’ll change one way or the other. Either they will have a sense of guilt, remorse and empathy. Or, like I said, that sense of entitlement will come bubbling to the surface, and suddenly it becomes their money. And how dare you? So we just ask the what if questions. You’ve had a friend that went through a bad divorce. What if your husband did that? Maybe take a few baby steps to protect yourself.

How To Financially Prepare For Divorce

Debra: In this day and age, it seems like betrayal is rampant. Sometimes it’s financial betrayal. And sometimes they actually don’t know for sure. They don’t have any proof, but a wife knows the truth. She may not know the facts, but she knows the truth. When you’re with an emotional abuser, there’s often financial abuse involved. So women may not have access to information about their marital finances. That makes it hard to get started if you don’t even know what’s on the table to be divided.

If you don’t have access to your own money. So that makes things really hard. Often the abuse will still keep her in a one-down position. And she still feels like she doesn’t have the power and voice to stand up for what she deserves.

Anne: To all my listeners, this is important. They’re going to get mad no matter what. So please don’t make decisions thinking, okay, he’s going to get mad if I do this. So I’m not going to do it to avoid making him mad. He’s going to be mad, no matter what. So just do whatever you want. That’s very, very important. Because so many women are trying to stop the abuse by doing what he wants. And that is not going to happen.

Debra: Not at all. Not at all. Women in abusive situations need to start creating this exit strategy in stealth mode. So that when he gets crazy, she’s at least got a few things in place. So she has copies of financial documents in a safe space, because they disappear. She’s got some money set aside because money disappears. Those kinds of things.

How To ThrivE After Divorce

Debra: There are no winners in divorce. So everyone walks away feeling like they didn’t get what they wanted. One thing I see often with betrayed women is expecting the court system to mete out emotional justice. He cheated on me, so why do I have to do with less? Why do I have to live in a small apartment? Why do I have to drive a used car? Whatever the what if is or why. And unless it’s something really egregious that’s going to shock the court, there’s no emotional justice.

What we want to come away from a divorce with is a settlement where we made intentional decisions. And that we can feel good about. So we had all the information we needed, and every choice was intentional. Sometimes you will give up something that you were entitled to in order to get something else. And that’s okay, as long as it was an intentional decision as you prepare for divorce.








So we just don’t want to come away feeling like we were missing information or a victim. Because what that does, and you’ll get this, it impacts their ability to recover from it afterwards. Divorce can be a bump in the road. It doesn’t have to be your destination. And so the more empowered you feel during the process, even though crappy things are happening, and he’s mean and unfair. And you may not get everything you want. If you can feel like you were informed you’re going to recover and move through that healing phase so much faster.

Anne: Yeah. that’s the point of the Living Free Workshop.

How To Prepare For Divorce Emotionally

Anne: On our BTR Team, our coaches are betrayal trauma coaches. They’re also certified divorce coaches, so they can walk you through this and help you implement the Living Free strategies. They can help you prepare and stealth mode. Like she was talking about. The other thing our coaches do is help you work through those emotions.

Debra: Yeah, when we talk about preparing for divorce, I talk about two people you need on your team. And that’s, I call a BFF backup. This is the person you can call at three in the morning, who can pick your kids up from school. Who knows what you’re thinking before you do. When they say, how are you? And you say, I’m okay. They go, no, you’re not. So you need a BFF backup and a taskmaster. Your taskmaster friend is someone who might not sit with their arm around you, but there’s someone who will research attorneys for you.

We’ll do all the real estate legwork. We’ll go to the grocery for you. Someone who will do the things that you’re too emotionally crippled to even deal with. And then you need a safe place to share and be real. Because emotional regulation is key during this process, and by regulating or managing your emotions, I don’t mean stuffing them.

What I mean is having some place safe with a coach, a super healthy friend or family member to get that stuff out. So that you can be strategic in your planning, and you want to have a safe place to get those emotions out. And then you also want to get the affirmation that what you’re feeling is normal as you prepare for divorce.

Preparation For Divorce​ makes A Huge Difference

Debra: Women say, I can’t remember where my keys are. I’m crying all the time. Of course you are. Of course, you feel that way. Look at what you’re going through. In divorce care, they tell you that sometimes, I think 80 percent of your brain can be occupied with thoughts about divorce. If you think about a computer, 80 percent of your computer’s RAM is busy processing thoughts about the divorce. And only 20 percent is available for your daily living. Of course, you’re going to forget your keys.

Anne: Here are two concrete examples. I wasn’t able to read written instructions well. And so I asked a friend whose daughter was in my son’s preschool at the time. My son and her daughter were going to the same preschool, and we would get these emails or texts about what was happening. I couldn’t process them. I would try. I’d look at them and I’d be like, Oh, something about a hat. You know, I couldn’t figure it out. And so I asked her, I said, I can’t process written information in these emails and texts. So keep this in mind when your preparing for divorce.

If something is important, will you please call me or send a text and say, send him in a hat like the simplest text possible? Just one thing, so I didn’t have to read the explanation or whatever, and she was happy to do that for me. And so she would call or send me a very simple text. Now, a lot of people don’t have a friend like that, but I think they can develop a friend like that.

Help With Divorce Paperwork

Anne: There might be someone who goes to church with you, someone in your neighborhood, another woman maybe who has been through it, who you didn’t realize who could help you out. It’s scary to ask, but I have found that a lot of people say yes. I think the scariest part is actually asking.

Debra: It is. People will tell you, if you need anything, let me know. But they don’t know what you need. But they really do want to help. If you have a leaking faucet, someone wants to fix it for you. Someone wants to help you go over your documents. Someone wants to help you do those things. They don’t say that out of routine or ritual. They want to help. Because they just don’t know what you need.

Anne: I think another traumatic situation here is the person who used to fix your faucet. And the person who helped you with your legal documents is your husband. There’s this other element of I need help, and the person who is helping me isn’t here, and what do I do? I’m alone! Like, he used to fix the faucet. That is also really traumatic through this time.

Debra: It is because for your support, you need a coach, an attorney, a financial person. But you need to think ahead, so that you can keep yourself more centered and stable.

Anne: This is why you need all these people in your corner. Because you’re rightfully and normally reacting to a really, really hard situation when you’re preparing for divorce.

Debra: Exactly, it’s normal. Of course you are. Let’s get you set up for success.

Make Self-care a Priority When Filing For Divorce​

Anne: Because if you say you should be able to handle this, why can’t you read? Why can’t you blah, blah, blah. You’re just going to get more and more depressed and overwhelmed.

Debra: Right, yeah. Just to know that it’s normal. There are things you’re going to have trouble with. So how can we put measures in place to fill those gaps until you’re ready? And it might be a month, and it might be six months, but let’s think through who can help you. And that’s one of the things your taskmaster can do. Your taskmaster can find other people. Well, who can fix my faucet? Who can cut my grass? Who can do these things? Your taskmaster friend can do that.

Anne: What do you believe are the most important things for listeners facing a high conflict divorce to know ahead of time?

Debra: First of all, self care. When we’re going through a stressful time, one of our first tendencies is to cut back on self care. Because we have our normal life. Plus, now I have to fit in attorney appointments and financial appointments. And like I’ve added to my daily stress. And so we tend to cut back on self care, but what you need to do is double it. Because especially if you were in an abusive marriage, you developed coping mechanisms to get through the day with that partner.

Those aren’t going to work anymore during divorce, so you have to make sure your tank is full. So increasing self care is important. We talked about safe people and a support team. You cannot do divorce alone. It’s too hard. You’re too traumatized. So get the right people around you as you prepare for divorce.

Using Social Media During A Divorce

Debra: Work on regulating your emotions so that you can make strategic decisions. Get the right help to process them. Vent to safe people. Because you want to make decisions you feel good about. Again, you may not get everything you want, but you at least want to feel empowered and informed. Shut down your social media. Block everyone he’s friends with. If his family supports him, block them, unfriend them. Don’t post anything. Live like a nun, especially if you’re going to be in a custody battle.

Anne: I could not agree more. I deleted all my social media accounts, and I would highly recommend that for people.

Debra: Don’t be out at a concert with a cocktail in your hand. Just don’t do it. Even though it’s fun and you want to show your friends that you went to the Jimmy Buffett concert, don’t do it. And then be careful of Switzerland friends. Those are people, they love both of you. He’s a great guy. We just want to be friends with both of you. No, absolutely not. And you don’t have to be cold or cruel about it, but take a step back. If you run in the same circles and you’re around them, just be very cautious what you say.

Don’t discuss your divorce. Don’t discuss your partner. We talked about Switzerland friends, shutting down your social media, those kind of things. If you don’t keep control of yourself and what you say and do, it could be used against you. So it can hurt your case. If you’re preparing for divorce you need to keep this in mine, if you act out or send that email or send that text. Those things could be used against you. So it’s not in your best interest.

How To Mentally Prepare For A Divorce

Debra: Other people can get hurt when you’re not managing your emotions, and specifically your children. It’s the hardest thing to model healthy behavior to your children while you’re under this stress. It’s the hardest thing you’ll ever do in your life. Yet it’s the most important thing. And then finally, and you talked about this, we can’t make good decisions when we’re crying, and we can’t think about it. And our brain isn’t working right.

So being able to maintain that sense of calm and clarity and focus on our purpose. Focus on the end game instead of living in the moment. Is critical to making good decisions as you prepare for divorce.

Anne: Did you watch Marriage Story?

Debra: I did. The emotion of it didn’t surprise me, the hurt, you know, the pain, the anger. What surprised me was how realistic their portrayal was of how our legal system creates litigious situations. When they don’t have to be.

Anne: It was interesting that he had an affair, so there’s a betrayal. I listened to Pop Culture Happy Hour. They reviewed it, and they were like, this is a situation where you’ve got a nice man and a nice woman, and this is how divorce goes. They didn’t weigh the betrayal at all. It carried no weight in terms of fault. Instead, they focused on the idea that the couple had grown apart or weren’t really compatible.

And I thought this is why so many women feel so betrayed in general. Because society in general doesn’t understand this. Although it showed the legal system well, I don’t think it got to the heart of the cause.

Preparing For Divorce: Common Themes

Debra: I agree. They glossed over the betrayal, and I think that’s just so indicative of culture. Culture says, eh, no big deal. Or culture says, well, you know, she wasn’t sleeping with him, so what’s a guy supposed to do? That patriarchal attitude is still so prevalent in society that nobody blinked at that.

Anne: I know, I thought the part where her attorney, Nora, said you have to be perfect, and he doesn’t have to be perfect. It was so spot on.

Debra: Spot on, the judges need to hear what they want to hear, and see. This is important as you prepare for the divorce, the judges and magistrates are looking for something from you, and you better present it.

Anne: Well, yeah, I mean, it’s so traumatic. There are so many reasons why divorce is so traumatic that it just overwhelms your brain, you know?

Debra: There are so many reasons, and they’re always individual. But there are three common themes: money, kids, and conflict. So often, women have been kept out of the loop in terms of finances, or stay at home moms or lower earners. And they’re worried, can they support themselves? They’re often worried about the impact this will have on their children. And they’re worried about the conflict, because we know that when we’re married to abusers, they don’t like to be told no.

Sometimes you have to pick your hard when we’re on the fence, and work through that decision. Because it’s also hard to stay married to an abuser.

The Right Support When Preparing For Divorce

Anne: The thing that so many women appreciate about Betrayal Trauma Recovery Services is that our goal is to give women information. And then to validate and support them. So there’s never going to be a time when someone comes to Betrayal Trauma Recovery, where we say you have to get divorced. We give women the education they need, give them their options, and then help them assess what’s right for them. Can you talk about how Betrayal Trauma Recovery coaches support women through making their own decisions?

Debra: The first thing a Betrayal Trauma Recovery coach will do is help a woman seek peace and safety. So helping them observe their partner’s patterns of behavior, helping them set the boundaries they need. And determining if they need to set the next boundary, the next boundary, and the next boundary. So when the boundaries aren’t working and they have to set tighter or stronger boundaries, that’s when we start to see separation or financial separation or start to take those bigger steps.

And so when they get to that point, that’s when the word divorce starts coming up in their mind and they start thinking, Hmm, I wonder if this will have to be the next step I take. So you can pray your husband recovers. And simultaneously, get yourself knowledgeable about what it would look like if I took this other path toward divorce. And for many women, we go back and forth for a long time. When I prepare divorce, how will I know when it’s time to go?

How To Prepare For Divorce As A Woman

Debra: You will have a crystalline moment of clarity. There comes for most women, a time when the heavens open up, a spotlight shines down, and you know, today’s the day. When that happens for you, when you have that moment of clarity, I want you to be ready and not afraid. So if we have all this information, you will be prepared for what divorce will look like, and you know what you’re stepping into.

When the heavens open and the spotlight shines on you, and you know today’s the day, you’ll simply nod your head and say, okay. I’m not scared.

Anne: And that day might never come.

Debra: It might never. It might be next week, a year from now or it might never come. But if it does, you’ll be ready.

Anne: There are so many things that those who have gone through divorce wish we had known long before we even started considering it. Because it would have helped prepare us. So at Betrayal Trauma Recovery, like I said before, our coaches are certified divorce coaches. They can help women anticipate things, and women can get assistance through group sessions or individual sessions. Can you talk about the difference between group and individual sessions here at BTR?

The BTR Team Can Help You Prepare For Divorce

Debra: Sure, Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group is where you can get help tackling a particular high level issue. For instance, can you give me a few tips on how to talk to a six year old about this? And so, in three or four minutes, a BTR coach might give a couple of high level tips about age appropriate conversation, great.

In an individual session, they can look at your finances. Look at your budget. Talk through a strategy to get back to work. They can help you make negotiation decisions, get into the meat of it. Talk about how to pick the right attorney for your case, who else you might need on your team. Like, they can dive into the details of your particular situation that probably aren’t appropriate for group. And so you can get really individual stuff there in order to prepare for divorce.

It makes a big difference to actually look at your spreadsheets and numbers, especially if you haven’t been involved in your finances. Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group Sessions can educate you about some of that.

Anne: Exactly, and some of that’s kind of DIY in the Living Free Workshop, or if you need help implementing those strategies, you can do Group or Individual Sessions.

So, if a woman is listening and she thinks divorce might be in her future, what are some of the first steps that she should take?

Debra: The first thing I want to say is what you shouldn’t do. Please do not tell your spouse. I don’t want you to put that out there until you can get educated about it in the workshop. Just make sure you aren’t deciding not to divorce, because a fear that’s not rooted in truth is standing in your way.

Here’s How To Financially Prepare For Divorce​

Debra: A woman who lived in the San Francisco Bay area where it’s expensive. She thought I can never ever afford to leave. There’s no way. I’m miserable, I want to leave, but I can’t afford to. And when she looked at the numbers, her budget was only short a thousand dollars a month. Then she thought, I can find a way to earn two hundred and fifty dollars a week. So is that fear holding you back?

Make sure it’s not a false fear that’s holding you back. I’m not trying to get you to decide, I just want you to have truth. At Betrayal Trauma Recovery, it’s all about truth. All truth all the time.

Anne: Yeah, and it’s painful, especially when so many of us come from a religious background. So it feels like maybe “betraying” our husband. I’m going to say that in quotes, because obviously we’re not, because he betrayed us. Also in so many ways it feels like we’re betraying God.

Debra: So that’s another one of those fears. Decide to face our fears. See if they’re real. Because regardless of the conflict and regardless of the parenting. For the most part, divorce is breaking a legal contract about money. That’s what many decisions will be about. That’s what the law is written about. So, understand the money involved as your preparing for divorce.

Do you have access to your tax returns, your husband’s pay stub, or W 2? Do you know how much is in your retirement account? How much your house is worth? What’s the balance on your mortgage? Do you know what your monthly expenses are? It’s good to have the financial information before you consult with an attorney, so that an attorney can estimate of spousal support and child support.

How To Tell Your Husband You Want A Divorce

Debra: That’s what we need to help fill in our budget. If one of your fears is, well, I’ve been a stay at home mom, I don’t think I can support myself. Well, then the income line in your budget will be mostly child support and spousal support. So that’s important information to know. So gather some of the financials before you consult with an attorney. That way, that meeting will be much more productive for you.

Anne: If a woman decides she wants to divorce, she’s prepared. She’s worked with a Betrayal Trauma Recovery coach. She’s done everything she needs to do, and she’s ready to do it. When is the right time to tell her husband that she wants a divorce?

Debra: You are an expert on your husband. One of the preparation steps, and you’ll go through this in the workshop, is setting up a bank account. And making sure you have emergency funds, because a dirty divorce trick abusers like to play is move their paycheck and not give you access to any money. So if you think that’s the case, you tell him the same day you file the paperwork.

Anne: So many women in our community, me included, did not think our husband was like that. And then we found out that he is like this. It was shocking to us during the divorce process. Like in my case, he shut down our bank account. And really, the abuse starts to be very overt. Where perhaps, before it was covert. For me, it was shocking and upsetting, but it was also like, I guess, I made the right decision.

When Can You File For Divorce?

Debra: It’s confirmation, yeah.

Anne: Yeah, because it was like, whoa, when divorcing an abusive husband, he’s getting more and more deliberate and harmful through this, not less. And it will hurt you, but you can also think, Oh, okay, this is another sign that I’m making the right decision.

Debra: We, as women, have such a tendency to wait until the bullets start flying before we put on our armor. And I want women in abusive relationships to know, if he says, don’t worry, I’m going to be fair. Don’t worry, I’ll always take care of you and the kids. If this is a person who’s been deceiving you for a decade, I’m not sure we should take that statement at face value. Let’s prepare for divorce and assume it’s not true. And if it turns out that he negotiates in good faith and takes care of you, that’ll be a bonus.

Anne: Because this is someone who looked you straight in the eye and said, of course, I’m faithful to my marriage vows and had an affair.

Debra: Let’s just make sure we have on our Kevlar vest just in case. So the best time to tell him is when it’s done. This is another thing a Betrayal Trauma Recovery coach can help with is preparing you for that conversation. One alternative is not to have the conversation. If you are already separated, you can simply file and have him served. If you want to have the conversation, the conversation is very simple. It’s, this is a decision I’ve made, it’s what I need to do for me.

What Happens When You File For Divorce​

Debra: When he rails against it, you can say, I hear you’re mad, I hear you’re upset, I hear this isn’t the way you wanted it to go. This is the decision I’ve made for me. He’s gonna throw accusations at you, and you don’t need to defend yourself. You don’t need to explain why you chose to do it. Or you don’t have to tell him all the ways he hurt you. You simply repeat, this is a decision I felt like I needed to make.

Anne: Yeah, because as I explained in the Living Free Workshop, if you try to explain it, or you’re hoping somehow, you can get some resolution with an emotional abuser like this. It’s not going to go that way. He’s going to use it to abuse you more.

Debra: Correct, we don’t mention divorce when we prepare until we are doing it. It is never a threat. It’s never an incentive. It’s never a punishment. So, this conversation is only a notification conversation. Then he may throw declarations, you’ll never get a penny, you’ll never see the children, I’m getting full custody, you’ll be homeless. Whatever these declarations are, my best response is to say, we’ll see, that’s it.

This is not a time where you’re going to negotiate, don’t fight back, don’t explain, you simply say, this is a decision that I feel like I need to make. If he throws those accusations or declarations out, you simply say, we’ll see, and that’s it. that’s the end of the conversation.

Anne: Yep, I learned the hard way, which was why I was so passionate about writing the Living Free Workshop. Because I didn’t want any other woman to learn the hard way.

The Best Preparation For Divorce: The Living Free Workshop

Anne: But I totally get it. If you’re listening and you’re like. I don’t want to do the Living Free Workshop. I’m not interested in learning about this. I get it. Because I was there for a long time too. In my own experience, I just wish I had known what I know now. That’s all. And that’s why I want to share it with you. Especially because the strategies in the Living Free Workshop feel so counterintuitive. It’s not like anything a therapist will tell you or anybody else. It’s completely different.

Debra: Yes.

Anne: Can you go deeper about why it’s important to work with someone who understands this abuse dynamic when they’re getting a divorce. Instead of just getting support from like a regular therapist, or even trying to get emotional support from your attorney or sister?

Debra: I just demonstrated one of them, helping you plan for that conversation so that it goes well and you can stay as safe as possible in that conversation. If you let your emotions, or your amygdala, your fight, flight, or freeze, reflex, drive what you’re doing in the divorce. You won’t fare as well. If a coach can keep you calm and emotionally regulated, so that you can make informed strategic decisions. You will do a lot better emotionally, financially and relationally.

You’ll be a better mom through the process. You’ll help your kids navigate the process better. Your attorney is not an expert on the emotions in divorce. They’re an expert in the legal process.

Anne: Many women want to talk to their attorney a lot, getting validation from their attorney. Or even want their attorney to be their therapist, which is an expensive way to go.

How To Start Preparing for divorce

Anne: The Living Free Workshop and Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group are much less expensive than an attorney’s hourly fee.

Debra: And they’re better at it.

Anne: Yeah.

Debra: Just to say that. They’re better at supporting women in trauma when they prepare for divorce. An attorney is not skilled at it, trained at it, and they haven’t been through it.

Anne: Don’t look to your attorney for emotional support or validation or anything like that. It’s not what they’re trained to do, and it will be frustrating and extremely expensive.

Debra: And they won’t help you be a better mom, stay grounded, and make the best decisions for you. They’ll tell you what the law says about how it works. Mediation can be a decent choice, but you have to be prepared for that. And you need someone strong in your corner helping you prepare for mediation.

Anne: To get more information about the Living Free Workshop, click this link. It’s amazing. It’s helpful. You also need support. And that’s what Betrayal Trauma Recovery group sessions are all about. Group sessions you can get in every day. It’s an amazing resource. So thanks for your help today. Debra.

Debra: I love it. I love it. Betrayal Trauma Recovery is an amazing organization. it’s what I wish I’d had.

Anne: Yeah, me too.

Are you seeing things in your marriage or a relationship that feel a little intense or puzzling…and you’re not sure if they’re normal or actually signs of a toxic relationship?

If so, it’s important to pause and look at the pieces of the puzzle together to see what they might be telling you. To discover if you’re in a toxic relationship take our free emotional abuse test.

Here are five things that might seem “normal,” but aren’t:

SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP THAT ARE EASY TO MISS

1. HE WANTS TO MOVE THE RELATIONSHIP FORWARD QUICKLY

When you’re in a relationship with someone who seemingly shares and cares about your values and interests, it’s easy to be swept up by the intensity of it all. Especially if the relationship seems to happen at the “right” time, and things move forward quickly.

But this level of intensity and pace doesn’t give you time to slow down and really think about why you seem so compatible.

2. HE WANTS CONSTANT ACCESS TO YOU, BUT HE’S CLOSED OFF

It might seem caring for your partner or husband to want to know where you are all of the time. But is it reciprocal or does it feel one-sided, like he needs constant visibility into your life, while parts of his remain just out of reach?

Many women in these situations describe a quiet, hard-to-explain feeling that something isn’t adding up. Like he’s keeping close tabs on them… while also keeping options, information, or even other relationships carefully hidden.

3. HIS MOODS SHIFT SUDDENLY AND YOU DON’T KNOW WHY

Think about it…in healthy relationships, partners are usually aware of the reasons why one partner isn’t in a good mood. They typically communicate about bad days at work or when they’re not feeling well. But in toxic relationships, that level of trust and communication often isn’t there, because one partner doesn’t want it to be.

Everything’s fine, until it’s not, and then, it suddenly is again…
And you’re left trying to figure out what changed.

4. HE‘S UPSET OVER SMALL THINGS

Things that don’t seem like a big deal, suddenly are signs of a toxic relationship.

For example, you miss a turn on the way to his best friend’s birthday party… and suddenly it’s not about directions anymore. He’s accusing you of being disrespectful, or doing it on purpose because you don’t want to go. Or you might simply ask him to help with the groceries, and suddenly he’s angry because, “you don’t respect his time and all the things he has to do.”

5. HE’S A DIFFERENT PERSON WHEN OTHERS ARE WATCHING

Things feel tense, confusing, or even cold behind closed doors…but in public, he seems calm, kind, hardworking, and completely put together.

For example, during counseling or around friends, he might appear thoughtful, patient, and willing to work on the relationship. He says the right things. He looks sincere. Other people may even be impressed by how hard he’s trying.

But when you’re alone again, it’s different.

The warmth disappears. The tension returns. And you’re left trying to reconcile the version of him everyone else sees…with the version you live with every day.

If you relate and you need support, we’re always online to help you. Go to btr.org/group/ to see my daily support group schedule.

TRANSCRIPT: EARLY SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR HUSBAND

Anne:  I did an interview with a member of our community. We’re going to call her Iris, She talked about how his toxic patterns showed up in her marriage and what happened when she started using the strategies she learned in my workshop. Here’s that interview.

Welcome, Iris.

 Iris: Thank you. Glad to be here.

Anne: Let’s start at the beginning of your story. Can you talk about how you felt when you first met your husband?

Iris: He was very charming, and he seemed extremely sincere. Now I understand that he was love bombing me and was trying to make things go fast. It was very intense. And he preyed upon me at a time when I was really ready to get married and have kids. Everybody was getting married and having kids. So he went right for what was the most vulnerable part of me. And we met through a young adult single thing in our group. He proceeded to be very attentive.

Anne: When you say young adult, single thing, that sounds a little bit like my faith. What’s your faith background?

Iris: it’s the Catholic church. It’s actually Theology on Tap, which is at a brew pub, and you can buy a drink and mingle. And then they have a speaker.

Anne: Kind of Matt Fraddish.

Iris: Yes.

Anne: I actually know Matt Fradd in real life.

Iris: And I don’t go to the Catholic church anymore. But that was a huge part of our marriage and, we were really in a circle of pretty devout people. Which also I think contributed to my willingness to submit to him.

Anne: When you say submit, can you talk about that a little bit more?

EARLY CONTROL DISGUISED AS CARE AND SHARED VALUES

Iris: Hindsight, there were red flags before we married. There were early signs of coercive control. It dates me, but cell phones weren’t the norm yet. And he bought me a cell phone so he could reach me more easily. He was pretty volatile. He asked me to marry him within a month or two and I deferred and we dated longer, but he was just intense. Then he would be very sorry. He would cold shoulder me at points. He’d be angry for things that were weird, wasn’t very flexible. Now I know these were signs of a toxic relationship.

We went through nine months of marriage prep. So many Christian circles focus on the idea that the man is the head. I saw that in my parents’ marriage too. My dad made all the decisions. My mom was independent in some ways, but she still did what he wanted.

I think I expected marriage to look like that. The husband leads and the wife follows. Even though I was independent, had a master’s degree, was over 30, and had traveled, I still lived in a huge Christian community where that model of marriage was everywhere.

NOT RECOGNIZING SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP

Anne: And you just mentioned nobody actually says that, but they actually do say that, it might not be in so many words. It might not be so directly, but they like actually say it. And if you call ’em out and say, “Hey, you said this.” They usually deny it. “Of course, I didn’t say that.” And you’re like, “What? You did.” That’s the part that’s really confusing. The therapists come in or the clergy comes in, or the friends and family, and they gaslight you too. It’s like, “You’re putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say that.”

Especially when they find out what he is really like, and you’re like, “What?” “You told me this.”

“Well, I never did.” And they for sure did. It’s almost like no matter what you do, you can’t win. There are friends of mine and maybe friends of yours too, who are amazing and they’re like, “Oh my word, I said the wrong thing.”

That is so validating. I feel like when I meet people like that, it’s easy to be like, “It’s okay did the ‘wrong thing’ too. I was doing the best I could and I didn’t know that he was abusive. And I didn’t know what was happening, and didn’t recognize signs of a toxic relationship. So I can’t blame you either.” But, for the other people who continue to not believe us and deny that they said or did certain things. ‘That’s harder. Cause it becomes this almost group of unhealthy people that you’re dealing with, rather than just the one unhealthy person.

Iris: Right.

Signs of a Toxic Relationship: The Sudden Switch After Marriage

Anne: Did you end up going to couple therapy?

Iris: In the Catholic Church you do Pre-Cana, which is pre-marriage counseling, and they saw some things that were concerning. He was very intent that he could change things. They would categorize it like how we were different. I think she said to me, “Life might always be kind of hard for him.” ‘Cause that’s what she was seeing..

He works very hard, so he seems very sincere. And he met with the man in the couple we met with. And read books and was very sincere. They said to us, “Oh, we’ve never seen somebody work so hard to try to improve themselves so that they’re ready for a marriage.” He impressed them, and I remember feeling exhausted by that point. And it was a mask. I now know that these were signs of a toxic relationship.

Anne: Like you shouldn’t have to work that hard. to be normal. They are hard workers, because it would be very hard to pretend all the time.

Iris: Right, and that’s how he lives. He has a mask all the time. We had this huge Catholic wedding, like an hour and 20 minute long mass. And it was that night the switch flipped. And he was angry. He cold shouldered me. We’d waited till our wedding night, and he said things that were incredibly humiliating.

Seeing THE SAME SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP IN OTHER WOMEN’S STORIES

Iris: Then the next morning he would hardly talk to me. And we left the beautiful hotel. We were to go to a morning brunch at my parents, with guests who were from outta town and our families. And he was furious because people had decorated our car. And he had to stop at a car wash to rinse everything off before we even got to the wedding brunch.

Anne: I used this story in my book.

Iris: You did?

Anne: Yes, this story. Someone else had the same story.

Iris: Isn’t that amazing? Like how these Chucks do the same thing to us and have all the same signs of a toxic relationship.

Anne: ‘ Like Twilight Zone. Cause you never gave me that story.

Iris: isn’t that amazing? I feel like that in group a lot. I’m like, “Oh, that happened to me.”

Anne: BTR has been like me trying to fit all the pieces together. And as I’ve tried to fit all the pieces together, things became very clear. And I’ve become very good at seeing in the dark. So this piece of the puzzle I was trying to get it to fit.

Like why did he do that? I’ve never met you before, but I spent a lot of time piecing just this piece. With the other pieces that I had of other people’s stories to say, what was this about? I’ve spent so much time with this story in my brain and what it meant. I’m like, holy cow.

Iris: Thank you. Thank you for somewhere to tell it, because it was something that felt so shameful for such a long time, rejected, and humiliated.

RECOGNIZING THE PATTERNS OF EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE PARTNERS

Iris: So we went to that wedding brunch, and I knew he was on edge the whole time. Other people didn’t necessarily see that. We got back to the house we were making our home together, which was his house. And he was angry, he didn’t want to go on our honeymoon, but I was like, I’ve been planning a wedding. All I have been thinking of is being able to go rest on a beach. So he agreed to go, and it was a really a horrible week. He was just fighting. His anger and unreasonableness, were more signs of a toxic relationship.

It’s so hard, because he can make it feel like I’m also participating. We finally came home after the week, and at several points I thought maybe I should just fly home,’because it was awful.

How would I even ask somebody to come and pick me up? What would I say? What would I do? Feeling so humiliated, like we had this big wedding, we’d done all this preparation, so we finally came home and I remember the first morning after we’d gotten home. He got up, he didn’t even talk to me. He grabbed his mountain bike, and he went mountain biking all day. That was a pattern that repeats throughout our marriage, where he just does his own, yeah.

Anne: I had a mountain biking all day incident as well that I wrote about in my book. All of a sudden I’m like, what is happening? This is Twilight Zone, yes.

Iris: No way. The Chucks, it’s the Chuck thing, which has been the most powerful thing to learn.

WOMEN HAVE DIFFERENT RESPONSES

Anne: Surreal that they’re all the same. I think that’s one of the powerful things about our group sessions is that the women are so different. We all react differently and we’re all doing the right thing. Because all of our personalities are different. So some of us want to protect ourselves by being quiet and sitting back and that’s the right thing for us.

Some of us want to fight the guy, because that’s how our personality is. But they do all the same things. It doesn’t seem the same, because we haven’t acted the same. And I think the thing that like really helps it all come together is when you realize they’re so transactional. That they’re going to manipulate you in whatever way works for you, all signs of a toxic relationship.

So if you’ve been trying to protect yourself in a certain way, they’ve been countering your protection methods in a certain way. And then when you change up the way you’re trying to protect yourself, they almost become like a different person. But they’ve been that same exact person the whole time.

It’s just that they’re so transactional that they’re like, oh, that’s not working anymore. I have to do this other thing. And this whole new set of problems comes out so they can be super, super nice or super aggressive. But the whole time, it’s manipulation and lies.

Did he ever go through a time where he seemed like he was really great?

WHEN PREGNANCY AND BAD ADVICE KEEP YOU STUCK WITH SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP

Iris: I got pregnant right away, so I probably would’ve left, but then I was pregnant and trying to navigate that. When I found out I was pregnant with my first baby, I went to therapy right away, and that therapist just didn’t have the skills to recognize an emotional cycle of abuse and really gaslit me.

Then got pregnant again when my daughter was nine months old. So I had two babies, under 18 months old. That was another thing. In my faith, that I grew up with, you’re supposed to accept all babies. That was something that really kept me trapped. I knew once I was pregnant that I would always have to be linked to him.

And that was incredibly devastating and terrifying. I think the Christian, and I’m going to say trope, I don’t want to make fun of anybody, but the trope of marriage that you just have to work hard enough and it will all be fine. That really was so damaging when signs of a toxic relationship are present.

He did tell me early in our marriage that he had struggled with porn. He did the Every Man’s Battle stuff and everything like that. Also he confided in me that he’d used some at work. He has a security clearance and was about to be interviewed with a, polygraph.

He was afraid they would ask him something like that. At the time, he was abusive our whole marriage, but it was the most intense. I didn’t even have the wherewithal to understand that. It was disturbing, it made me feel awful. But I didn’t have any brain space to process what to do with that. He downloaded it on me to get it off his chest.

HE WAS Emotionally ABUSIVE ALL OF THE TIME

Iris: After my second baby was born, he was probably seven months old, I tried to leave to go to a mom’s group. My ex-husband was angry with me because of my daughter, who’s my older one. I was working on potty training her. And I let her wear pants without underwear. She pooped and he was furious. He came up behind me in the bathroom and pushed me against the counter and said, “Next time, make sure she wears underwear.”

So he was abusive all of the time, disrupted my sleep, and would wake me up in the night angry if I coughed. I had to sleep on 18 inches of the bed or less, without moving to not anger him. The reaction I had was to kick him to get him to back up. That’s when he grabbed me by the throat and started to strangle me. And I know now, but I felt terrible later. All I wanted to do was leave. I got my coat and I got in the car and I left. My children were still in the house with him. I just wanted to get away.

I went to the mom’s group like everything was fine. But I was dissociated and in trauma. I had gone to my therapist then within a day or two and just poured everything out. And her response was, other women have it worse. And I was so humiliated, like feeling somehow I had caused this. Even though like I knew, I have education. I was in my thirties, I knew that wasn’t right. But the abuse had taken so much of my strength. That kept me so trapped for so long. It made it harder to open up.

Therapists aren’t equipped to see signs of a toxic relationship

Iris: And we went to so many marriage therapists, who just aren’t equipped. Because Chuck is charming, and they just don’t understand the dynamic except for one therapist who we did not go back to. They didn’t see the signs of a toxiC relationship.

But she was crazy. So we went in, it was this dilapidated house. She was far back in the house. The door was open. We went in and sat down. Literally a dog with sores and the cone of shame came out, and she was like, I’ll be right there. Chuck was like, so wigged out. She came out and talked to us for a little while. She also had paranoid notes tacked up on her wall. Anyway, she talks to us for a little while, and Chuck is so wigged out, so Chuck is walking out. And before we leave she says, I want to give you something.

And she hands me a page, and it has books on it. So I went home and ordered it, and then it came and I didn’t read it, like I couldn’t read it. I didn’t read it for the longest time, because it was just so painful. But that was the only therapist who saw the signs of a toxic relationship.

And then I found out the next week she lost her license, in the newspaper. Anyway, she was the only one who saw the abuse and handed me a key.

Anne: So she handed you a clue.

When His “I Choose You” Doesn’t Add Up

Iris: A clue, and she was right. I had gone to other therapists over the years. I looked just crazy, because I would just cry. One therapist had different offices and I would always go to the wrong one. because I had no short term working memory available. Chuck disrupted my sleep. I’d be in the shower, he’d bring the baby in screaming and put them on the bath mat and I’d have to get out and take care of the baby.

He’d drive angry, the list goes on and on. I just didn’t have the words to explain. We went to a mom’s group event where dads were invited. And he was angry at me the whole time, but only I knew that. And then I had to get in the car and drive home with him. So it was really intense. And then at about the seven year mark, he decided that marriage worked for him.

It was such a delight, such a relief to have him gone for two weeks. He came home from a business trip. And he said, “I realized it’s been you the whole time. You’re really the one that I want to be married to.”

Anne: Oh

Iris: Right.

Anne: Wait, he was having an affair.

Iris: I don’t know.

Anne: That sounds like something someone would say if they just broke up with someone. Because they’re like trying to choose between the person they’re having an affair with. In my book, I put the pieces together.

FROM THE DAY WE GOT MARRIED, THERE WERE SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP

Anne: After interviewing over 200 women and hearing their stories. I’m pretty good at knowing what happened. I think in this situation, he’s having an affair and she breaks up with him. He’s feeling bummed about it. He might say out loud to you, I decided I want to be with you.

Iris: Mm hmm

Anne: You don’t have the context of the affair, of him breaking up with her. So this really weird out of the blue statement, “I’ve decided I want to be married to you.” When he’s been married to you for seven years is odd. It also feels like a relief, “Oh, maybe he just didn’t want to be married to me before, and now he’s choosing me.”

But you don’t realize what a weird out of place thing that is, because he makes you feel better in that moment. I don’t know if that rings true to you, but it seems that would be the order of events that would precipitate out of the blue, telling you, “Oh, I’m choosing you now.”

Iris: Yeah, it didn’t make me feel better, because from the day we got married, he was horrible. it was awful.

Anne: So you’re like, great. Now this awful person really wants to be married to me.

Iris: It felt like a lie. Now that I understand how Chuck works, like there was something he wanted, he didn’t really love me. Somebody who really loved me and realized they were wrong would’ve not said that. I think they would’ve said, ” I’ve been horrible. I can see why you wouldn’t even want to be married to me, but I realized I really want to be married to you. They would’ve said something to try to heal that.

Anne: Some effort to repair.

Seeing the Patterns and Signs of a Toxic Relationship

Anne: Instead it was more signs of a toxic relationship.

Iris: I think so. And I think that’s why it felt awful. Because he manipulated me. Which I don’t think I could verbalize at that time, but he manipulated again.

Anne: Were you about to leave at that time? Was there anything about you that was different?

Iris: He knew that I was unhappy, but he was abusive all of the time, yeah.

Anne: Did you ever find out about explicit media use?

Iris: He told me, in hindsight, he’d invited a single woman that he’d never met to our wedding. Which was weird. It was a last minute thing, and I feel like she was probably a backup.

Anne: You’ve said three stories now that sound exactly like other stories. I have heard this before. Your story includes all the classic, down to the detail.

Iris: Wow

Anne: Of inviting someone else to the wedding.

Iris: The Chuckness of it.

Anne: You got a winner.

Iris: He’s a doozy. He told me later that he didn’t actually want to get married. Then when I look at inviting this woman to the wedding, he didn’t admit that for many years. But when he did, I was like, oh, so she must have been the escape hatch. If he didn’t go through with marrying me, he would’ve had someone in the wings.

FEELING HELPLESS

Iris: I suspect he continues to use porn. He is in cybersecurity, and he always had three computers in his office. So I wonder if one of those he used. I don’t know. I’ve always been curious about what that was. I don’t think I was as tuned into that until I was leaving the marriage. And then there wasn’t much that I had access to. There wasn’t anybody that seemed to have that language who I could talk to.

I just felt really helpless, and he was very manipulative and very controlling, the love bombing, he is very good at. The other part was that I was super reactive at that point. So I felt very guilty about my responses to his behavior. Even though it was less intense and further apart. But the reality is that those first seven years, in the bedroom, total coercion, marital rape, and everything now that I have words for, had happened.

By that point, like there was very little he had to do to make me comply, to try to stay out of his way. I would try to have a separate life, while maintaining that Christian marriage appearance. It took me a long time to see these as signs of a toxic relationship.

Anne: We would probably call it like survival mode. You are trying to survive and that’s why a lot of people use the word survivor when they talk about abuse victims, because every day you’re just trying to survive.

Why Getting Help Feels So Scary at First

Iris: Yeah, daily. Navigate all of the things that are happening that just don’t make any sense. And I don’t have the words for. I think during the pandemic, I started to see your Instagrams. And it was like, oh, that’s what’s happening, those are the words. That’s what this is. And beginning to be able to label things and feel like I’m not alone. Then, wanting to join group, but then being afraid. What if it doesn’t help, I don’t want Chuck to know I’m joining? Just feeling do I really want to do that? because I felt like if I go through that door, I can’t go back.

Anne: Can we talk about that for a minute? because a lot of women have told me that. I followed you on Instagram, or I listened to the podcast, and I didn’t start attending group sessions because I knew it would change everything. What is it about BTR that is different in that way? It’s different than maybe therapy or something. Is it because you’re going to finally get help to look at it. Seeing the signs of a toxic relationship can be scary at first.

Iris: This can make me cry. I think, because no one had helped. So I think there was an element of, I could try this and probably it’s still not going to help.

By that point, looking for help for so long and thinking, I don’t know that anything will help. then being so vulnerable and beaten down. I think there’s a sense of like, does anybody really want to help me? Do I deserve help? because it certainly seems like it’s my fault. So being very afraid to join a group. Like it’s terrifying the first day.

BTR FELT LIKE AN ANSWER TO PRAYER

Anne: Once you did attend a group session? Were you surprised at what happened?

Iris: Yeah, the first day I joined, you hear that zoom beep and you are in group and feeling so afraid. But I was so welcome. it was like I could take a breath, even though really I was crying so hard. Hearing everybody talk, hearing the coaches talk, feeling like the words made sense. I didn’t share that first time, but just crying afterwards.

Like there’s somewhere that gets this. There’s somewhere where there are other women who understand this. I’ve never met anybody who knows what’s happening to me.

In my story, something that’s amazing was that when my daughter was a baby, there was this show on daytime TV called Starting Over House. It was a reality show for women to go to this house and start over. They had two coaches, and I remember watching these women go, and they had all different kinds of problems that they were trying to grow from or whatever. All I wanted was to take my baby and join that house.

It was a reality show. I’m sure it would not have been really super helpful. But I just wanted to have people love on me and help me figure out my marriage. That’s all I wanted. So when I came to Betrayal Trauma Recovery group, I’m not kidding you, two of the coaches looked like those two coaches on that show. It just felt like it was a prayer answer.

HIS ANGER WAS THERE ALL THE TIME

Iris: So Sharon and Renee, two coaches loved on me and made me feel like I wasn’t crazy. And helped me to slowly unravel what had been happening and what had happened to me, and find my voice. I joined in the spring, I was already starting to take steps in my marriage to not engage with Chuck.

By July, he was angry with me all of the time. Which I’ll come back to in just a minute. But , before I had joined, he had done some really angry driving in the car. He’d been angry one day when I had locked the door to the master bedroom, because I like to pray and meditate. And then I had gotten in the shower without unlocking it. Because I just want privacy from two kids, a dog and a Chuck. He banged on the door for as long as I was in the shower, and I could hardly hear him, but it scared the pants off of my kids.

I felt like I didn’t know what to do. When I joined group, I finally started to have some strategies and observe him. Sometimes I forget all the things that happened. Right before I joined in February, he bought a new car and asked for money from his father. Then he came to me and said, “I didn’t spend all the money on the car. I saved some, so either you can go to marriage therapy with me.”, which he’d been threatening, and I didn’t want to go to marriage therapy with him because we’d been many, many times.








GROUP HELPED ME SEE THE SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP

Iris: He said, “Either you go to marriage therapy with me, and I’ll buy a car for our daughter, or I’m going to divorce you. Not long after that, I ended up joining group. Then he said, “I used that money to file for divorce. I hired an attorney, and how do you want me to serve you your papers?” At that point, I had enough skill to say you can have me served, thank you. And it was super calm. And then I actually jumped in group and was able to just process. One of the things that was so amazing was that everything happening to me in real time,

I could then go in a group, get support, be in my closet, my car, or at the library. The more I went towards health and boundaries, the angrier he got. So he actually continued to ask me for two months how I wanted my divorce papers. I can see how divorce and emotional abuse were intertwined, he was using the threat of divorce to try to control me.

I would say, “You can have me served.” And he would say, I don’t want to pay $400. He did that until I got a paper in the mail and I thought that I was being served. I didn’t think I could be served in the mail, which you can’t in my state, but it was actually that they were going to kick it out of the system. I took that paper to an attorney, because I had been interviewing attorneys. That kicked off the divorce process. Because I was served.

Anne: That whole time he is asking, “How do you want to be served? And you’re like, “Just serve me.”

DEALING WITH CONTROL WHEN HE FILED FOR DIVORCE

Anne: He’s trying to get you to do something to stop the divorce. He threatens you—if you don’t toe the line, I’ll divorce you. When you’re like, okay, go ahead and divorce me, then he’s escalating. Using all the tricks and signs of a toxic relationship that worked before. He reminds me of my ex, who said that. Then he didn’t file. Because he thought that would instigate me repairing. Or me doing the thing I was supposed to do. And when I didn’t do it, I don’t think he wanted to file for divorce. It’s just that he couldn’t figure out how to control me anymore.

He was like, well, I guess I have to make these things happen. And it sounds the same in this scenario, where he’s trying to get you to do something. Because a normal person, if they’re like, how do you want me to serve you? And you say, oh, just serve me. They’d be like, okay. And they would serve you.

Iris: Right, it was control. I was so thankful I could go back in group and have the framework, putting my lab coat on, doing one step at a time. Getting shored up so that I wouldn’t be bowled over by his behavior.

I finally hired an attorney, and my attorney notified his attorney. Chuck came to me and said, “Well, that’s not fair. You didn’t tell me you had an attorney. And now we both have to decide to dismiss the divorce. I can’t just decide myself.”

Anne: Like not to get divorced? After he’s filed, he’s like, wait. Now that you’ve responded to me serving you with divorce papers, we actually have to get divorced.

Iris: Right.

Anne: That sounds like my Chuck too.

INDIVIDUAL SESSIONS HELPED ME GET READY FOR EACH BIG BATTLE

Iris: Really, it’s like they’re all going by the same playbook. I think realizing that these are all the signs of a toxic relationship was huge. And it allowed me to understand that my job was to be strategic.

Chuck does a lot of stupid as a strategy. That attorney he hired in July, by the time our status conference was in October, he’d used all of his retainer. Which was $5,000, and nothing had happened yet. Because he is a Chuck and likes to call his attorney to talk. So then right after the status conference, he fired the attorney and then went pro se for a while.

I was so thankful that I had BTR, that I could do group. I could do the Betrayal Trauma Recovery individual sessions to get ready for each big barrier or battle with him, so that I went in calm and focused. It really allowed me, in my divorce process to understand that this was the best thing for me. Even though he was trying to control me. It was finally the door out. And he kept coming back to me and asking, “Do you really want a divorce?” And I would say, “You could move out.” But he never would.

One of the other things was that understanding that there was going to be so much out of my control and really focusing on what was in my control. In my coaching sessions with Renee and with Sharon, being able to determine what my top priorities were. My priorities weren’t numbers. My priorities were big picture. And then I said, these are the things that are most important and this is what I want to work towards. And it helped me. I feel like things worked out well for me.

WE SETTLED AN HOUR BEFORE COURT

Iris: So having enough money to restart and go back to school. Having stability for my kids, not selling the house immediately so that my daughter could finish high school. Like those were the big picture things. And because Chuck just wants to fight, it was the 11th hour literally.

He hired an attorney again, just weeks before our divorce was final. But we ended up settling like an hour before court. I was able just to hang on, to understand it was going to be like that no matter what I did. Like I didn’t have any control over him, and I really got up that morning not knowing what was going to happen.

And being at peace in that, and that I was doing all the things that I needed to do, and to let go of that so that I wasn’t in a battle with him. That was incredibly powerful. Hard but powerful.

So it’s been final for two years. And the post separation abuse continues, and BTR’s been incredibly helpful in that. I was able to stay in our marital home for a year till our daughter graduated, and then last year that sold. So I moved out and things just lined up. In part because he was so disorganized. I think that worked out in my favor.

And I’m now in school finishing a post Master’s certificate in school counseling. And I got hired last fall as a school counselor. So I’m working full-time as a school counselor while finishing my certificate. Just having somewhere to work out the technical stuff and then the emotional stuff, to understand how to be strategic.

RESTARTING MY LIFE

Iris: Because I could stay in that place rather than be in his blender. Which is what it was for 18 years. I have been able to restart my life and feel so grateful and fortunate. That I’ve had the support, and he continues to be abusive. And my daughter now is 19 and my son is 17. And so being able to talk about that and how he behaves helped me.

I know that at some point, I won’t have to interact with him as much. Or at all once my kids are bigger. But because of the type of abuser he is, because of the types of things he did to me, I know that I am at greater risk of him being dangerous to me physically.

And so being able to unpack that, but also, understanding that I have a right to safety and that I can take steps to do that and not feel bad about it.

He’s much sneakier now. He’s incredibly angry with me and feels like the divorce was unfair. Because his goal is control, he can’t control me anymore, I think is one reason why he’s angry. It is palpable when I’m around him. He seethes at me. Other people may not be able to see it because he’ll mask it until there’s nobody around. But I think it has been invaluable to me to have a community where I can process that and then take steps to be safe from all the signs of a toxic relationship.

When I finally blocked him, which was scary to do, because we have two kids. And that was easier to be able to text and call. It was just another vector for him to get to me.

BLOCKING HIM FELT SO EMPOWERING

Iris: So blocking him and doing email only. It felt so empowering to make that decision and be able to unpack that in group and also get the support of “Yay, you finally blocked him.” Like I’d been talking about it for so long. And trying to figure out the signs of a toxic relationship,

There are the big steps to leave abuse and there are smaller ones too. Sometimes it’s the little ones that felt really hard. Especially because then my kids would know that I blocked him. Moving away from abuse is hard. I left the house today because I have somebody cleaning my house, which I started hiring somebody. So that I can do all that I’m doing. because I’ve been in school and working full-time and parenting two teens, and it feels so empowering.

When they walked in today, I was thinking, because I was coming to talk to you and I was like, they’re helping me leave abuse. And I can say that to you. I think you know that. But he was abusive with cleaning.

He would wake me. He likes things clean. He’d wake the kids cleaning and it’s very controlling. But to have a clean house and not be abused, it’s hard to express. This is my safe space, and I get to decide how it gets clean. I get to decide how to spend my money. I get to make choices now that I couldn’t make before. I’m just so incredibly grateful that BTR, I can make choices and know that I can. Thank you.

LEARNING THE STRATEGIES IS INVALUABLE

Anne: You are so brave and so strong. Look at you. You’ve got a good job. You have enough money to be able to hire someone to help clean your house, and the lack of guilt. Because some people have the money, but they’re like, I still can’t. I should be able to, no, like look at all the amazing things that you’ve accomplished.

When it comes to divorce, if people ask me my situation, I say I am proudly divorced. I am so happy divorced. And I also say things like abuse doesn’t work out for a lot of people, but it worked out so well for me. Because everything that I have gained from learning about the signs of a toxic relationship and the strategies of protecting myself, has been invaluable. Like our confidence just grows day by day. That little voice in our heads and that little like charge that feels like I’m doing something wrong or I can’t do this or I can’t do that just starts to fade away.

And life feels so free and wonderful. I’m so happy for you. It’s wonderful. Good job.

Iris: Thank you, thank you for starting BTR and your podcasts were such a beacon for me too. Before I started group of these voices saying, “You’re not alone, you’re not crazy.” Listening to your voice, I still probably need to hear that a lot, because he makes me feel crazy. So thank you.

Anne: Well, thank you, without women like you who listen and come and use our services, we wouldn’t be here. So thank you. Our services are incredible. Our team is incredible. It’s such a safe place.

THE DIFFERENCE WITH BTR SERVICES

Anne: I’ve been thinking a lot about the difference between BTR and the difference in our services is that it’s so real. You really have women you can see who know your story. You can talk to them every single day in person . And they’re never going to blame you or judge you. It’s never going to be that you made some kind of soul contract, like the weird stuff that you might hear from people who somehow try to blame you.

I’m like, there’s no reason to ever say any of it had anything to do with you. because you were surviving the best you could the whole time, and you were going for help, and no one gave you the right information. And none of that has anything to do with you. They are helping you deal with the signs of a toxic relationship.

That’s the crazy thing about abuse. You’re doing every single thing right and you still can’t get the right information. Despite you trying to get it for years. Some people don’t believe it, because they can’t imagine that would happen. But it happens every day with so many women all over the world. Anyway, thank you for your support of BTR.

Iris: It is really such a privilege to be in this community. I felt, loved on and prayed for fiercely.

BTR GIVES US THE STRATEGIES THAT WE NEED

Iris: I remember when I first started. I thought they’re giving us the weapons that we need to fight the battle. Almost under the cover of darkness. They sort of come into our homes, our cars, our closets, and give us the weapons we need to fight the evil that is happening to all of us. Like all of a sudden realizing the support, but also the education that BTR does, is invaluable, to help us recognize and deal with the signs of a toxic relationship.

I could get out of my reactive brain and really start to think, “Oh, this is what’s happening. Okay, this is what I can do. Chuck is doing this. This is what I’ve always done, but I don’t have to do that. I can do this.” It changed everything.

Anne: Well, I am so glad, thank you so much, Iris, for taking the time to share your story with me today.

Iris: Thank you.

If you’re searching for an emotional abuse checklist, you’re looking for clarity. I’m an emotional abuse expert. My team has helped over 8,000 clients identify emotional abuse and thrive. And I’ve noticed that most victims of emotional abuse in marriage have been told, “You’re too sensitive,” or “You expect too much.” You’ve probably wondered, Is it me?

Emotional abuse is often subtle. It hides in half-truths and conversations that never quite resolve. This emotional abuse checklist will give you a clear picture of the patterns. Because emotional abuse isn’t just isolated incidents. To learn more, take my free emotional abuse test.

What Is Emotional Abuse?

Emotional abuse is a pattern of behavior used to control, confuse, belittle, intimidate, or dominate another person. But it likely won’t feel that way. It’s usually not obvious yelling or cruelty.

Many emotionally abusive men seem like really nice guys. That’s why having an emotional abuse checklist matters.

Emotional Abuse Checklist

Use this checklist to look for patterns. One isolated moment does not mean someone is emotionally abusive. Repeated patterns do.

1. Chronic Lying

Your husband lies about serious matters, such as:

His whereabouts

How he uses his time

Money or financial decisions

Porn use or masturbation

Emotional or sexual affairs

The real reasons for his actions

When confronted, he minimizes, deflects, or becomes angry.

2. Withholding Information

He:

Rarely shares his thoughts or feelings

Says, “You wouldn’t be interested”

Gives vague or incomplete answers

Plays dumb when asked direct questions

Refuses to provide financial transparency

Withholds access to accounts or income details

Walks out when discussions get serious

Withholding is a way of controlling your perceptions.

3. Discounting Your Thoughts and Feelings

He says things like:

“You’re too sensitive.”

“You’re jumping to conclusions.”

“You blow everything out of proportion.”

“You always have something to complain about.”

“Why do you always twist everything around.”

“You’re looking for a fight.”

He says your valid concerns are unreasonable.

4. Mood Control

He:

Makes the house tense with his moods

Refuses to acknowledge obvious problems

Pretends everything is fine when it clearly isn’t

Everyone adjusts to him.

5. Disparages You, But Disguises It as A “Joke”

He says:

“You’re my ball and chain.”

“You would get it if you were smarter.”

“What else can you expect from a woman?”

“Your blond is showing.”

When you object, he responds:

“You don’t have a sense of humor.”

“You can’t take a joke.”

Humiliation disguised as humor is still humiliation.

6. Blocking Conversation

He:

Pretends not to hear you

Looks at his phone while you talk

Storms out mid-conversation

Says, “The discussion is ended.”

Rolls his eyes while saying, “Quit yakking.”

Says “Who asked for your opinion?”

Stonewalling is a control tactic.

7. Financial Secrets

When you ask about money, he says:

“You have plenty.”

“I’m not going through receipts.”

“It’s too complicated for you.”

“All you married me for is my money.”

“Do I have to account for every penny?”

He shifts accountability back onto you.

8. False Accusations

When you raise concerns, he says:

“You don’t respect me.”

“You don’t love me.”

“You’ve never supported me.”

“If you won’t have sex with me, who are you having it with?”

He accuses you of things that aren’t true.

9. Blame Shifting

He says:

“When you pester me, of course I get mad.”

“I wouldn’t look at porn if you met my needs.”

“I was going to do it, but not if you keep bugging me.”

He blames his bad behavior on you.

10. Character Attacks

Instead of addressing issues, he says:

“The trouble with you is…”

“You’re stupid.”

“Really? It’s like you’re never satisfied.”

“You’re a bad mom.”

“You don’t care about anyone.”

He attacks your identity.

11. Trivializing Accomplishments

He minimizes your efforts:

Makes sarcastic comments about your projects

Dismisses your work as insignificant

Claims shared ownership of what you built alone

You feel small instead of supported.

12. Undermining the Family

He:

Prioritizes his wants over family needs

Disappears for hours or days

Leaves you to manage all responsibilities

Makes decisions without considering impact

The family orbits around his desires.

13. “Forgetting” or Denying Reality

He says:

“I never said that.”

“You’re making that up.”

“We never had that conversation.”

“You’re upset about nothing.”

This is gaslighting.

Over time, you question your memory.

14. Ordering and Demanding

He says:

“Get rid of this.”

“You’re not wearing that.”

“Shut that off.”

He commands rather than collaborates.

15. Subtle Threats

He says:

“If you act like that, I’m going to…”

“When you do that, it makes me very angry.”

“If you won’t meet my needs, I get depressed.”

Threats do not have to be overt to be effective.

16. Anger as Control

He:

Yells

Glares

Punches walls

Throws objects

Gets inches from your face

Unpredictable anger creates fear.

Emotional Abuse Checklists Don’t Always Include The Subtle Signs

Many people imagine abuse as screaming and violence. But emotional abuse is often quiet. Controlled. Strategic.

It can look like kindness or even indifference. It can look like charm in public and cruelty in private.

That invisibility is what makes an emotional abuse checklist so important.

Emotional abusers often:

Groom their partners with affection and charm

Alternate between warmth and coldness

Appear generous to others

Build a public image of “good guy”

The contrast creates cognitive dissonance.

You may trust him more than you trust yourself.

Healing begins when you rebuild trust in your own perception.

What To Do If This Emotional Abuse Checklist Feels Familiar

The confusion, grief, and destabilization of emotional abuse can feel overwhelming. No woman should process it alone.

Betrayal Trauma Recovery offers daily Group Sessions in multiple time zones where women can:

Share experiences safely

Learn practical emotional safety strategies

Rebuild trust in themselves

Gain clarity without pressure

You can also get more education about emotional abuse. Listen to The Betrayal Trauma Recovery Podcast

Transcript: Emotional Abuse Checklist: How to Know for Sure

Anne: We have a member of our community sharing her story today. We’re going to call her Macie. I’m so thankful to all of you who have shared your story. It takes a lot of courage, and it humbles me to hear your stories and I appreciate you.

Macie is a single mom. And let’s start with your story. Did you recognize your husband’s abusive behaviors at first?

Macie: I did not. I actually did not recognize or was even made aware. I just thought our marriage was normal, happy, healthy, that he was such a great guy. And one of the most selfless people I had ever met. And that was pretty difficult when I started to understand what my marriage really was.

He had texted that he wanted a divorce. And not knowing the magnitude of his betrayal and all those choices that he was making. Just the stonewalling, the communication dysfunction, the emotional abuse is so hard. But in my mind, that was not even possible. And because of the type of abuse.

It was the withdrawal and not communicate, control that way. Versus the yelling or control by physical demeaning. It was never like that ever. So the emotional abuse is so hard to see until I actually had the truth of the whole story. To see, oh, now I can tell where the manipulation and the blame shifting and all that was taking place.

Anne: This type of abuse, it’s not overt. Not like screaming and yelling in your face. And people don’t have the education to see it, and many therapists don’t. You’re in this relationship and you don’t know what’s going on, but you know something’s wrong.

Why Emotional Abuse Is So Confusing

Anne: During that time, what types of things did you do to try to establish safety and peace in your home before you found out about the pornography use and infidelity?

Macie: Again, we had what I thought was a healthy, happy marriage. I feel like a lot of it was, a lot of communication with the children. We both were on the same page about talking to them about pornography. We agreed we wanted to talk to them about it, just like we did drugs or alcohol or anything else. And we both come from families where we have a predisposition for addiction.

And so we would explain to them, it didn’t matter what. It could be something. We don’t know what it is, so we need to abstain from many things, including pornography. So I feel like we would check in as a family a lot. We had a really open communication about sex, about social media. We had our kids sign contracts, phones were away.

I feel like there was a lot of communication within the home surrounding specifically pornography. Which I feel like is ironic, now I know the truth of what he did. I do feel like that even on a spiritual level, we pray as a family, go to church, that aspect too of having the spirit with you. So those were some of the things we did. The emotional abuse is so hard now, understanding that he viewed pornography and violated my home.

which of the following is true about emotional abuse​?

Anne: Mm hmm. You’re talking about explicit media, you’re talking about healthy sexuality, thinking he is on the same page with you. And really, it was all just a facade. Emotional abuse is so hard. Did you have any sense then, like deep down, that something was wrong? Or did everything seem fine to you? I mean so many women are wondering, “Which of the following is true about emotional abuse​?”

Macie: A year into our marriage, granted we got married in the 90s when the internet was really early. So I found pornography, and at that point I felt super hurt, betrayed and cheated on. But I feel like I never saw or knew of any pornography use from him until the actual discovery of his work phone. But I would have kind of this underlying insecurity. Because there was a lot of lying going on. And I never could pinpoint the purpose.

And I learned that a part of the abuse blamed me for his lies. Because my reaction would be so much that I would maybe get too angry. So he was justified in lying to me. And it just didn’t make sense. Some of the things he would lie to me about. And I do feel like there was a lack of empathy and emotional disconnect, especially in our communication.

I now see that there was a lot of withdrawal, and it took withdraw, withdraw, and then I’d finally corner him to communicate. Even if it was just me feeling overwhelmed or stressed or that I needed extra help. And it ended up an explosion, and then that’s where it led towards the end to the stonewalling.

Emotional abuse is so hard: Financial Control & Lies

Macie: I had to literally text him in the home to say, hey, can you meet with me so that we can talk? And I didn’t want to overwhelm him with a conversation too long, so extremely unhealthy. There were also situations with money that didn’t make sense. But he was in charge of the finances. And when I tried to get involved, he didn’t want me to. But then it was a problem that I wasn’t involved.

So again, I see that he had control over that money, and he could do a lot of the things he did. Because I was not aware yet. He blamed me for not knowing what was going on. I read some emotional abuse quotes, but they were usually about yelling or saying “You’re stupid” so they didn’t seem to apply to me. ​And several gaps in time, he traveled a lot. He missed many flights. Or they bumped him. And again, it was him saying, hey, I’m getting bumped. So we can have a flight that we can use later for us. But really, he used it for other purposes, and disregard for me.

I did not feel like a priority, and I had an injury experience. I think that was the first time I realized how unempathetic he was to me. He just looked at me like I’m leaving town and had a broken ankle. He’s like, I’m out of here for the week and good luck. And I just cried thinking how can this be possible? Emotional abuse is so hard. But I still didn’t want to leave my emotionally abusive husband.

Understanding emotional abuse

Macie: I have these busy children, and what is going on? I felt like he had changed, but I could never pinpoint it. I feel like if I tried to ask questions, it was always I’m this simple person. It’s you, and so I just knew I had to work hard on me all the time. Because everything was falling apart because of me. He was simple and didn’t require a lot, and he wasn’t mean and angry at me. And he just laid low and kept the peace.

He wanted me to tell him what to do, then he couldn’t mess up and I wouldn’t get upset. I did not like that dynamic in our marriage either. Because I felt like this dominant person, but I want to be a team though. I want to work together. Well again, with the withdrawal and communication. When I tried to muster up the courage to talk to him, it would end with me feeling like I don’t value him. And how hard he works, and all the things he does around the house. And I just need to be content with how things are.

I now see how sad I was not even allowed, or feel like I could even cry in our relationship. Like to him that it was that emotionally disconnected for me. I gave him all I was: my good, my bad, my stress, my anxiety, wanting to work with him together as a union. Then to see that, not only that, but also to see that he used my strengths against me to do what he wanted to do. Each episode of emotional abuse is so hard to see. When I understood the truth of the emotional abuse and saw that was what he was doing.

Emotional Abuse Quotes​ Didn’t Help

Anne: Many people don’t understand that stonewalling and not talking about things are forms of controlling the conversation. And people will think, well, he just can’t talk about his emotions, or now’s not the right time. Those type of abusive behaviors are controlling. They’re controlling the conversation, they’re controlling the way you can communicate. And that makes it very difficult, emotional abuse is so hard.

You can’t be on the same team when one person’s goal is to shut things down, and make sure she doesn’t find out about things. He’s gaslighting you, and so you’re thinking, well, the problem is me, so I need to love, serve and forgive more. When did you realize that this isn’t working? Did you ever get a sense before he filed for divorce? That, man, I am loving, serving, forgiving, and things just aren’t getting that much better.

Macie: I wasn’t googling, “What are the 7 signs of emotional abuse?” Or looking for an emotional abuse checklist because I didn’t even think of that. ​I would go to him with a pad of paper and have him give me a list of things that I would need to work on. And I was just trying to love him more and value him more at work, and never ask questions when he traveled.

I do feel like he used those things again. I’m going through therapy working on me, and instead it helped him do what he wanted better.

Discovering His Lies Was Just One Emotional Abuse Example

I mean, he lived two lives. So it made it easier to be like, well, okay, now I’m a good husband and a great dad. And so she’s happy, Which means she’s not going to question any of this other behavior. So it wasn’t until actual discovery that I realized his layer of lies was actually to get what he wanted. And that was really disturbing for me. Emotional abuse is so hard. Especially when you look at 21 years, you know?

Anne: So you’ve got this marriage where something’s not quite right, you’re working harder, you’re trying. Tell me how you found the work phone. Talk about what led up to that, that day.

Macie: I think that was one of the things you talk about little red flags, things going off. I did feel like he was being unfaithful. I felt like pornography was involved, but simultaneously I trusted him. He was a spiritual person. So to me whenever I had those feelings, I thought I must be the worst person for even assuming or thinking any of these thoughts.

And as I worked, I believed he was also working on our marriage together. Because he didn’t want to go to couples therapy. We’re both individually working on ourselves. And one of the things was to make a date night together or spend more time together, but there were still some inconsistencies there. And I felt like I was definitely pulling more of the weight.

Unfortunately, on Christmas morning at two in the morning, I happened to just roll over. And saw his phone, and I could see the truth of a conversation he had with a girl he had been on the phone with through the night.








Discovering the Betrayal Was Emotional Abuse

Macie: And again, the betrayal of understanding the truth, I thought Christmas Eve was dedicated to the family and us. The truth is he was communicating with this person. He had been with her the week previous. He was planning to be with her after. But additionally, it wasn’t just her. When I went out of that conversation, just to see the magnitude of all that was on his phone was unbelievable and overwhelming. Emotional abuse is so hard.

I could not even believe he was capable of that, this was the same person? It was unfortunate, because of Christmas morning. I mean, that’s a day you celebrate every year, and you have so many memories attached. So I had to keep it together. I chose not to say anything. I wanted my children to experience Christmas morning as the best it could be.

Because I was super emotional, which again, as I talked about in our relationship, in our marriage, we had to be okay. So my kids didn’t see me cry ever. And so when mom’s emotional and crying, they’re like, what is going on? But Christmas morning happened.

Mental vs Emotional Abuse

Macie: We spent time with family. And it wasn’t until later that I actually confronted him. And everything exploded from there. My goal was to wait until the next day. But that just didn’t really happen. And so it is unfortunate for my children that I feel like a day that we celebrate, and you have memories that will never go away.

It’s like, how was your Christmas? Because that was the question following the discovery that I would get asked by every person. And it’s like, do you want to know the truth about how my Christmas was? How was your Christmas? So it was just that constant trigger.

Anne: It’s very traumatic for it to happen on holidays. It’s terrible. Emotional abuse is so hard. Hopefully, this Christmas can be the anniversary of your freedom.

Macie: Yes, and I’ve talked with the kids. So how do we embrace? I do feel like the kids triggers are different than mine. And just because their life circumstances and memories are different, and also what they know. But I feel like we’ve talked openly about what we can do, and I am really happy for them that Christmas, even Christmas morning, was great.

I think the difference changed in Christmas break for them. And that will be interesting to see how to deal with that. Because mom and dad never fought. And now dad’s arguing, and he’s this new person that we’ve never seen before with this anger. So it was a confusing time for them. And then he moved out, and again, they were confused. Like mom and dad don’t fight, and now dad’s moving out.

More Helpful Quotes on Emotional Abuse

Macie: It was for them because the emotional abuse is so hard for them to process what was going on.

Anne: And shocking, probably

Macie: Shocking, absolutely shocking.

Anne: You’re an amazing, smart, capable woman who is able to plan and make things happen, who graduated from college. Like, you’re no dummy. And same thing with me, and same thing with all the women who listen to Betrayal Trauma Recovery. We are capable, amazing, brave, strong women. Can you tell me your thoughts on that now that you know what you went through?

Macie: Yeah, that’s a great point. I actually get asked a lot. Did you really not ever know? Like, you had no idea. And I am almost embarrassed to say I didn’t. And a lot of that was that I trusted so much in him. But I did not allow myself to trust in myself. Like, when I had my own doubts, I discounted it so easily because of my trust in him.

I also think because of the type of abuse, he’s not this loud yelling person. Like I feel like emotional abuse is so hard to wrap your mind around the idea of abuse being the ability to not communicate. Like you said, his control was lack of communicating information to me. I didn’t ever know exactly what was going on.

Sometimes even for work, I didn’t know exactly what he was doing. And I felt like those were his lay low, just kind of keep the peace, keep her happy enough. But made it really hard for me to say, well, no, I was not in an abusive situation.

Compounding Lies & Realization He Was An Example of emotional abuse

Macie: He never came at me. He was supportive to me, and would even encourage me to do things. He never said a mean thing to me ever. How am I in an abusive situation? And. I think that’s when it goes back to the lies. I just see there were so many lies. And over time, and even when he would lie to me, and I would forgive him, then it would happen again. And I felt like it was this compound of lies that I was just trying to process. Like, why are you lying to me about this? If you’re lying to me about this, what else is there?

Anne: You’re saying, he never said a mean thing to me. But he did, he told you it was your fault. He told you that something was wrong with you. That is cruel. But it doesn’t feel mean, because you think it’s your fault. So many women say that. Oh, he was nice. And I’m thinking, that’s the meanest thing you could do to someone, is tell them that they’ve got a problem when it’s your problem.

Macie: I have told him that he did financially, physically, spiritually, emotionally, like all the betrayal choices he made that harm our family. The one that is the most hurtful are the times he saw me depressed. He saw me feel inadequate. And he saw me crying and I had come to him asking what it is, what’s wrong and what’s going on? He knew what he was doing, but allowed me to believe it was me. And that is so hurtful. It was like a dagger to the heart.

Manipulation is Covert Emotional Abuse

Macie: And then to take my strengths. Like I’m a hard worker, I want to do hard things and fix things. I would help try to problem solve with him. He was so tired. So it’d be like what’s going on? Well now I know it’s because he was out all night long, he was never sleeping. But I’m thinking what’s going on? How can we problem solve? And he would just allow me to try to help fix things. And I was running on this treadmill that was spinning so fast.

I see where had we gone to couple’s therapy, I would have sat there and been like, I’m doing all these things wrong and I need to work harder. It would not have been healthy. I know you’re familiar with Darvo.

Anne: Yeah, really quick with Darvo we have some amazing infographics that circulate around our social media on Instagram and Facebook. So if you’re not following us there, please do, because I love to interact with women on social media and hear your comments. So if you do follow us, please comment. Let me know what you think of those infographics and if they’re helpful to you.

Macie: When I look at that, it makes more sense to me. Because I would approach him with something that didn’t make sense. And then he would attack me as if like, he couldn’t believe I would believe that. He would defend himself and no, no, no. And then I’d start to feel guilty that I was accusing him or curious or insecure about something.

Emotional abuse is so hard: No Validation, Just Blame

Macie: Then it would turn around. He became the victim. And suddenly, I was the bad person, because I had come to him to communicate. The communication started with me and ended with me being the bad person. I’d walk away being like, how is this that I just went to him to see how I need help. That I am struggling? Yet I come away feeling like I’m an ungrateful wife. I don’t value him and recognize all the things he’s doing, so it would just come back to me.

Then I’d say, okay, what can I do to make it so that he knows that I value and respect all these things, yet I didn’t feel safe. I didn’t trust him. I didn’t feel like I was a priority and was not validated. Instead, it was well, that’s your fault. That’s your fault that you feel that way. I’m a simple person. Like literally he would say to me so often, I am a simple person and I do not require a lot where you dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.

Anne: You’re like, no, you actually require texting seven women, so no, you are very, very complex.

Macie: Yes, I do not know how he was able to organize all that, honestly.

Anne: So for you, what is one of the most difficult aspects looking back on your marriage now that you know the truth about the abuse?

Macie: I know he knew the truth of what he did. I got to a point where I was so down and depressed that I actually had to go into a surgery.

Feeling like I needed to go

Macie: In my mind, I had made a deal with God that I just needed to be taken. My life to be done, because that was, to me, the easiest way to remove myself from the emotional abuse is so hard, and the situation of my kids having to deal with divorce. And that I was this problem. That if I could just remove myself, then everybody would be so much better off.

And I left letters for my kids to read. In my mind, I was totally content with being done. And when I came out of surgery, I knew that I was going to fight, I was going to fight for my family, and I was going to do everything I could. And when I found out the truth that, while I was in surgery. He had taken money from our retirement and was putting it in a bank account for a woman he was financially supporting.

That to me just blew my mind that I was ready to be done with my life. I was crying on my way up, he knew I was hurting, that I felt so bad about myself, yet he continued that behavior. And that was my low, low point in recognition. Wow, you put those two pieces together, and you see there was a major disconnect. It’s hard, because I know that there were so many lies in our marriage. Emotional abuse is so hard for me to believe anything was ever true.

I believed it was good and there were some good times, but I now know that those good times were the buttering up so that he could keep me happy enough. Signing up for a girl’s trip for me, oh, what a great husband. And that’s so nice.

Grooming Is Emotional Abuse Too

Anne: But the truth was it was grooming. It’s what it was. He was grooming you on purpose to throw you off his scent.

Macie: Yeah, that is so hurtful. I got so duped in believing this person loved me, when I don’t believe there was love in this marriage. How did that happen? And how did I not know? So trying to make sense of how as a smart, capable, independent, person, I thought I had a healthy marriage. How did I miss so much? To not know that that wasn’t love that was happening in my marriage? I felt like I was loving and giving. But it was not reciprocated. And that is emotional abuse is so hard to understand.

Anne: Yeah, but it was just for him like a cover. For you, you were his facade.

Macie: It blows my mind that he is still the victim.

Anne: Pornography is abusive. But then he had all these other abusive behaviors. The control of the conversation, you’ve got sexual coercion going on because he’s not telling you that he’s having sex with other people. You know, there’s so much going on there that is seriously sexually abusive, which is physical abuse. So technically, your husband physically, emotionally, sexually and psychologically abused, And people just can’t comprehend that level of abuse.

Macie: Right, it’s mind blowing to believe, like you said, as the person I know I am. That I lived that, believing it was healthy. Like I looked at my parents and their relationship, so in my mind, I was aiming to try to do that. Even though I felt like in my communication to him. I didn’t feel like we were a team.

emotional abuse is so hard: Spiritual Journey & Reflection

Macie: I felt like I was more dominant, because I tried to get him to help or communicate with me. I felt like I was constantly chasing him to try to get him to communicate with me.

Anne: He wanted you to do that. He liked that because you were taking the responsibility for the entire relationship in that case.

Macie: I was already doing everything.

Anne: So, during this time, you consider yourself a spiritual person. You’re having prayers with your husband, you’re attending church, you’re reading the scriptures. Then you find out that God has not expressly told you in so many words, you’re in an abusive relationship. You realize that for 21 years, you were not privy to the truth. How did that affect your relationship with God?

Macie: Yeah, that’s a great question. For me, there were a lot of moments along the way. As I’ve reflected on the truth. Where I can see God’s hand to protect me and even prepare me in certain ways. I had an injury that happened that at the time. My husband traveled all the time. And I was devastated. My children were extremely busy. I felt helpless and felt like, why did this happen? This is so frustrating for me. Could I have not had some inspiration to not go?

It was playing softball, and I slid into third and broke my ankles. Could I have not had something to not do that? But I now see looking back that that was in many ways, God’s way of making me stop In my tracks.

God’s Hand in Protection & Strength Through Adversity

Macie: Because there were times when I felt red flags, but I never followed through with it. I just discounted it, but then I stopped and actually looked at my life. And started to see the truth of what it really was. I can’t deny that I felt God so present in my life. Not saying, hey, you’re in this abusive relationship.

But I even lost my mom. She died of cancer when I was a teenager. And I feel like even that experience prepared me to have some different strength and perspective that I even taught my kids that helped prepare for this heartache. You know, and understanding, and so I can see where, even through the divorce, there were several things that came my way.

And to come across Betrayal Trauma Recovery specifically. Because as you know, sometimes when you’re in it, sometimes a normal therapist, you’re just not getting the right information. So getting the right resources. And I feel like all those things were huge blessings. God blessing me and blessing my children and giving me strength as a mom.

Just giving myself a little leeway. This emotional abuse is so hard, I’ve had to lean on other people, and that’s been a hard thing. But I’ve been so appreciative. I’m so thankful for your resources through BTR. It’s amazing, I just cannot get enough information.

Trusting in God and Self

Macie: I believe God knows me better than myself. Even though what I’m going through seems unfair, I look around me and see so many people going through unfair situations. And I’m thankful for believing in something bigger than myself, that helps give me strength.

And I also feel like trusting in myself as I move forward in my life. Because my husband betrayed me and I don’t trust myself. I’m working through that, and that’s why I’m thankful for all your resources to validate what I’m feeling. And to build me and help me move forward as a broken, strong warrior.

Anne: Healing, a healing strong warrior, and you will. Thank you so much for sharing your story today,

Macie: Thanks for having me.

The Emotional Abuse Checklist You Need

Anne: Is emotional abuse considered domestic violence? Yes, emotional abuse is considered domestic violence. A domestic violence survivor will share her story with us today. And we’re going to explain why. Because it’s important to understand why emotional abuse is considered domestic violence. In fact, I think it’s the most important one, because physical violence never occurs without emotional abuse.

So if everyone can learn to recognize emotional abuse and protect themselves from it. Your chances of physical harm go down drastically. To illustrate how emotional abuse is domestic violence. My book Trauma Mama Husband Drama. really helps, because it is an actual picture book. There are a ton of infographics in the back that illustrate this type of domestic violence and explain why emotional abuse is domestic violence.

It’s an extremely quick read. So if you have people around you that are having a difficult time wrapping their heads around what you’re going through, this book is the perfect way to educate them. You can find Trauma Mama Husband Drama on this link, which is my books page. It’ll just take you to Amazon. You can also find it on Amazon.

When you purchase it, circle back around and give it a five star rating, because so many women are searching for books, and they find, The Five Love Languages or Men are From Mars, books that are not helpful. So if you rate it, it’ll help women find this podcast. Which is free to everyone, even if they never purchased the book. All right.

Evie’s Story: When you Can’t prove emotional abuse in court​

Anne: Now, let’s get to Evie’s story. Welcome.

Evie: Thank you so much for having me. I come from a small town, so I met my husband. i had no idea his behavior was the classic example of emotional abuse. All the emotional abuse checklists I’d seen before didn’t have the subtle types of emotional abuse on them. Isolation is huge, but that was the first big hurdle he didn’t have to cross. Because I didn’t have any family or friends in this new state. Already I was vulnerable, just because I didn’t know anybody. And so it’s so much harder when your gut tells you one thing. And you don’t have anybody else that you trust to bounce those thoughts and feelings off of.

Initially, there were a lot of silent red flags in our relationship. He was jealous. That didn’t sit well with me. He was very quick to say things like, I love you. And I remember he said I was like, oh. I don’t feel that way yet. It’s been like a month or two. This is very fast. He reacted negatively to the fact that I wouldn’t say it back. And I was like, I just don’t want to lie to you.

So things like love bombing at the beginning. It made it that much harder when the love bombing stopped. Because he yanked that away from me. And suddenly it went from, wow, at the beginning of a relationship. All he could do was shower me with compliments and say how much he loved me. And now I’m not getting any of that.

Is emotional abuse considered domestic violence?

Evie: And so things like that were really big, and arguing with him was very hard. He would make me feel like I overreacted to everything, and that my reactions were not valid. And that he didn’t say or do whatever was brought up. And then I also felt very intimidated.

He reminded me about other women he dated. And things he did to them when they left him. And so I remember only a couple months in. He let me know the ways he hurt other women. If I leave, what is he going to do to me?

Anne: Were you aware of any exploitative material?

Evie: I definitely knew that that was a thing for him.

Anne: Did you find that to be a example of emotional abuse, or was it like, “Oh, everybody does this?” How did you feel about it at the time?

Evie: Yeah, I don’t know that was something that was at the forefront of my mind.

Anne: So you weren’t concerned about the pornography use. That wasn’t necessarily a red flag for you. For me it’s important for women to understand that emotional abuse and infidelity go hand in hand. It’s interesting to me because women who exploitative material is an issue for them. They don’t recognize, that emotional abuse is considered domestic violence? Maybe or the psychological abuse. When they find out about the use, they know something’s wrong, because they know this is a person who has told me he’s not going to use it. So the level of lying there gets intense, but he was lying to you about other things?

Financial Abuse is An Example of Emotional Abuse

Evie: Definitely, I found out he cheated on me, and I think I had always had that in the back of my mind. When that came out, that was huge for me, and there was some financial abuse, it was emotionally abusive as well. I was always very proud of my career and the fact that I was the first person in my family to graduate and get a degree. So when he put my career in jeopardy, that was the biggest red flag that this was a classic example of emotional abuse. I just wish I had the right emotional abuse checklist at the time, like yours.

When I was with him, he took my voice away in more ways than one. And one of those was that he would constantly criticize my writing and wouldn’t let me keep journals. And so I turned to writing and sharing my story to start healing and find my voice after emotional abuse.

Anne: Domestic abuse and domestic violence are interchangeable. Someone can be an emotionally violent abuser without ever laying a finger on their victim. I frequently say domestic abuse rather than domestic violence. Just so women who haven’t been hit or punched don’t think, oh, this isn’t for me because I haven’t been physically harmed.

And also, many people don’t realize that emotional abuse is a domestic abuse issue. It is under the umbrella of domestic violence. It’s also very typical that it never escalates to physical abuse.

Emotional Abuse vs. Physical Abuse

That’s when women also get very confused. Because they try to figure out what’s wrong. At least for me and so many other victims that I know, they went through years of emotional and psychological abuse where they couldn’t quite figure it out.

And then once a violent act happened. It helped them see what was happening. So I try to help them identify emotional abuse vs psychological abuse is important. To do that you need to have examples of emotional abuse.

Evie: Yeah, the emotional abuse vs psychological abuse was important to figure out. The stonewalling and gaslighting have left a toll on me. It’s still something that I’m trying to heal from every day. It’s one of those things where some days I’ll be great, “Oh yeah, my gut was right. This is not okay.” And some days it comes back full force. And I will have the negative self talk in my head.

Sharing Examples of Emotional Abuse is Healing

I shared my story in your community, so it was in front of a supportive audience. I was able to talk about my experience in your community who say, Hey, yeah, me too, because there’s so much power in knowing that you’re not going through something alone. And knowing that you can heal and grow alongside people.

I was fortunate enough to find a community which I clicked with. There were three things that I appreciated. One of them was the power to share my story, get my voice back, and share my truth and not feel suppressed. And the second one was connecting with all these other survivors. I think community was huge.

My experience, which was validated, and helped me know that I wasn’t alone. Because it’s so easy to think, wow, this doesn’t happen to anyone else. So knowing there were other women, and for me, they were all older than me. And I was the youngest one going through it at the time. It was great. And then the third thing I got out of it was education. I’m originally from a very small town. And had my story happened back in my small hometown, I would have had that same opportunity.

And so It was great to share. No matter where I was, as long as I had internet access. I think those three pieces are huge stepping blocks for any survivor.

Anne: Now, I can tell from the way you’re talking that you like the word survivor, which is awesome. I prefer the word victim.

What is Considered Emotional Abuse?

And I’ll tell you why. not saying this to convince you or anyone else. But the reason why I like the word victim is because survivor to me feels like you survived the Titanic or something, right? Like, you got off the Titanic, and the Titanic sank, and you made it to shore, and you survived. The harm is over, but with emotional abuse and domestic violence it may continue because you share children.

And because I share children with the man who is emotionally and psychologically abusive to me, I’m actually, literally constantly a victim. Literally, I’m still technically victimized. I’m still lied about, I’m still harmed through things he says. When I say victims, what I want to say is that women can protect themselves, even though the harm could still occur because they share children or for whatever circumstance.

And so the reason I don’t like to call myself a survivor is because I’m like, I haven’t survived anything. I’m still struggling through this as safe as possible with the boundaries I have. What are your thoughts about that, as you’ve talked with other survivors?

Evie: Yeah, I think labels are important for people. You know, many people want to go by thriver too. I think it is a popular word that’s surfacing in the survivor community. But yeah, labels are personal for people, so I think whatever you want to identify as, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. It’s your story, and however you want to be identified, that is okay.

Anne: Yeah, I agree. I feel like you can thrive, you can survive. And I’m not sure if I will say I’m technically a victim forever. And actually I’m pretty happy and grateful to have the boundaries that I have.

When You’re Looking For Counselors for Emotional Abuse​

Anne: The Living Free strategies can protect you. I still call myself a victim because he’s still abusive. Luckily, with the strategies, I can completely protect myself and my kids now.

As you know, if you listen to this podcast, sharing stories is what this podcast is about. So if you’re interested in sharing your story, one option is to share it here on the Betrayal Trauma Recovery Podcast. If you’re interested in sharing your story, please contact podcast@btr.org. As women think about sharing, what are some safety tips you would recommend?

Is emotional abuse considered domestic violence: Safety Tips for Sharing Your Story

Evie: I think it’s important to listen to your intuition and figure out what is a safe audience for you. Maybe you tell a best friend, and if that goes well. Then you tell a family member, and if that goes well, maybe you tell your circle of friends. I think it’s really important to note that we don’t always get the response we’re hoping for especially with emotional abuse.

I told some family members, and I thought I would get support and love, and that didn’t happen. And it’s okay to go at your own pace. If you tell someone and you don’t get a reaction that you should, that’s not on you. That’s on them. And if you want to take a break from sharing your story, then take a break.

But if you want to keep sharing your story, keep looking for safe outlets to do so. Tell other survivors. I think that’s important. You know, those can be great ways to share your story. Because you’re sharing it with someone and people who do understand, because they’ve been through something similar. They’ll know how to support you and love you.

And so I think those baby steps are important. And if you want to get your story out there to a bigger audience. Yeah, sharing on your podcast is one way to do that. You get to share your truth anonymously. You’re also protected. You do a great job. Because you don’t have to connect your name with your story. You can share your story anonymously and still feel like you’re getting your voice out there.

Using Pseudonyms for Protection

It’s really just listening to your gut and figuring out, what do I need from sharing my story? And I know for me personally it was, I need to get my voice back.

Anne: Every woman on this podcast uses a pseudonym for her own protection. Before I started this podcast, I was actually public speaking about what was happening with my abuser, thinking he was in recovery from addiction. We used our real names and spoke publicly at addiction recovery conferences.

When I discovered all those lies that I accidentally promoted someone as a great guy, when he was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I felt devastated. That was really, really hard for me to deal with. Having had the experience of using my real name and then doing this, I definitely chose to use a pseudonym so that I don’t have to go through that again, because that was awful. So that is one thing that I recommend for victims is to use a pseudonym. It’s helpful to keep you safe.

Evie: Yes, absolutely.

Anne: I don’t think many non-survivors listen to this podcast. If they do, thank you. I’m honored by you listening. Mostly the people that listen here are current victims of emotional abuse in marriage.








The Best Emotional Abuse Support Groups​

Anne: Why do you think it’s important to hear these examples of emotional abuse?

Evie: It’s so important. I’m just trying to make sure that if there is one person out there hearing my story, who needs to hear what I’m saying. That’s who my audience is. Because whether they’re not a survivor, or they are, and they just don’t want to come to terms with that yet. I think it’s so important to ensure that we’re just spreading our truth.

Anne: Yeah, that is a risky endeavor, to start sharing. The cool thing about when you start sharing is that you’ll know pretty quickly if it’s a safe situation or not. You can dip your toe in the water a little bit and see, is it safe to share with this person, with this group, or with these people? And you’ll know pretty quickly if it’s safe or not. And if it’s not safe, you can just back away.

healing from emotional abuse​

Anne: The Betrayal Trauma Recovery Living Free Workshop will teach you how to know if someone is safe or not. So, if you’re struggling with that right now, the BTR Living Free Workshop will help. Okay. Now back to years ago, Anne.

And then the more you share and assess your emotional safety, the more you can identify a safe group. I think probably in your case, but I’m not sure. Don’t let me put words in your mouth if this is not the case. That now you feel like your support system, not just the other survivors you’re around, but also your friends and the people you interact with, feel safe for you. Is that the case?

Evie: Oh, absolutely.

Anne: Yeah, and you’ve developed that over time. So that’s awesome. And that’s what can come from reaching out and starting to share. Has anyone seemed safe at first, and then proved not safe?

Evie: Yeah, I think that was particularly true with my family, you know, their family. And so obviously they get a little bit deeper level of initial trust and love from you. It’s just so important to have the right emotional abuse recovery

That almost hurt the most for me. Because certain family members helped me when I needed to move out. And then later on kind of used my story against me and made me the black sheep of the family. But, as hard as that was, I’m in a good place now where I’m definitely setting healthier boundaries and able to understand what is acceptable respect and love from people. And it’s never easy to cut toxic family members out of your life.

emotional abuse how to heal​

Anne: Yep, the longer you go with either no abuse happening in your life anymore. Or in my case, the longer I set pretty strict boundaries to keep me safe from the harm, the stronger we get. In healing from emotional abuse and domestic violence the most important factor is distance from the abuse.

And I highly recommend that women join a network of support, like Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group, for example. That runs multiple times a day in every woman’s time zone, which is awesome. I talked to someone the other day. He said, oh, so BTR is a women’s empowerment organization. And I said, yeah, you could call it that, definitely. We want every woman to know she is important, cared about, loved, and doesn’t deserve harm.

Anne: Thank you so much for sharing your story on our podcast today.

Evie: Thank you so much for having me.

When emotional battering is covert, each moment looks harmless on its own. A comment, joke, or a nice” surprise might seem harmless. But when you step back and look at the pattern, a very different story emerges, one where boundaries are crossed, and her reactions are used as evidence against her.

SEVEN SIGNS OF EMOTIONAL BATTERING

Here are seven signs of emotional battering that often go unnoticed, especially when the husband looks like a great guy to everyone else.

Her reactions don’t match his gestures. He is doing something that seems nice, but she seems genuinely distressed. It usually means she senses something that other people can’t.

If she seems on edge around his kindness. She flinches at affection or looks uneasy when he is charming, it’s usually because she knows that kindness is hiding something that isn’t so kind.

If she watches him carefully, she’s probably gauging risk. Hyperawareness is an emotional survival skill. So if she’s being emotionally battered, it’s totally normal that she’s gonna be on high alert for emotional manipulation.

Feeling relief when you are away from him is a powerful indicator that something’s really wrong in your marriage.

She apologizes for things that don’t require an apology. If she’s apologizing for just stating her opinion, or talking about how she feels, it’s highly likely that she’s experiencing emotional battering.

She adjusts herself to constantly keep the peace. His lies that she’s doing something wrong are part of the emotional battering.

Her friends notice that she’s not quite herself around him. A woman who’s trying to make herself smaller is not loved in marriage. If she seems quieter or less alive in his presence, that’s a sign that her husband is emotionally battering her.

To learn if you are a victim of emotional battering, take this free emotional abuse quiz.

WHAT IS EMOTIONAL BATTERING?

Emotional battering is a consistent pattern of words, actions, or behaviors intended to manipulate, or control a person. Unlike physical abuse, emotional battering is more subtle and insidious, making it difficult to identify and even harder to explain to others.

Worse, an abuser may manipulate others, so you experience emotional battering from people in your church congregation or even neighbors. If you’re experiencing emotional battering from by-standers regarding your husband’s behavior, you need support. Attend a Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group Session TODAY.

COMMON EMOTIONAL BATTERING TACTICS

Being married and experiencing emotional battering by your husband means navigating daily complexities that are draining and painful. Some common tactics include:

Gaslighting: Making you question your memory, reality, or perceptions. For example, he may say, “I never said that,” even when you vividly remember he did.

Constant Criticism: Regularly pointing out flaws, whether it’s your cooking, appearance, or parenting, to damage your confidence.

Blame Shifting: Over time, you may find yourself thinking, my husband says I’m the problem, because he consistently redirects accountability onto you instead of addressing his own actions.

Stonewalling or Silent Treatment: Refusing to engage in meaningful conversations, leaving you feeling invalidated and powerless.

Public Embarrassment: Mocking or undermining you in front of friends or family to isolate you and damage your self-esteem.

Emotional Withholding: Withholding affection, love, or support to punish or control you.

TRANSCRIPT: EMOTIONAL BATTERING – THE INVISIBLE ABUSE NO ONE CAN SEE

Anne: I have a member of our community on today’s episode. We’re gonna call her Kiki.

Welcome, Kiki.

Kiki: Thank you very much. I’m excited to be here. First of all, I wanna thank BTR, because when I was in the middle of a complete breakdown, not understanding what was happening to me, it was only through finding your organization and the help of your team that made me realize that I wasn’t safe. The abuse was so covert that most people couldn’t have recognized it, myself included. I had therapists that didn’t recognize it as emotional battering.

And that started a journey into figuring out exactly what had happened to me. And what had happened to my friend. I came home from work one night, and there were police vehicles all over the place. We were told she had shot herself in her husband’s car. And she would tell us a lot of times these stories, and we would look at her like. She’s crazy or she’s making things up because her husband was such a great guy.

As I started going through my own stories and learning things after her death, but I was thinking about it the other day, like, you look at the Diddy trial or you look at women who come in and they’re battered. And they still have a hard time being believed. And then you take somebody who has been covertly abused or live in a society where, if your wife isn’t pretty enough or what have you, then she’s replaceable and it’s okay.

PEOPLE HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING THERE IS EMOTIONAL BATTERING

Kiki: People have a hard time believing there was abuse involved, but I left a 35 year marriage with severe CPTSD. I had a psychotic break, and I had to put myself back together. And during all of it, my ex-husband is the hero. My kids aren’t talking to me because I had some big breakdowns and did some things I’m not proud of.

And that was like my friend’s story, she would have these breakdowns. You could be just as abused with a fist as you can with a piece of birthday cake. And I know that sounds silly. But it’s so covert, that people can’t see it as emotional battering.

And BTR and the women and the professionals that came on here really gave me that push to step into it.

Anne: Talk to me about the things your friend did that were totally normal under the circumstances. Like now that you know what you were looking at. So that we can let women who are listening know they’re not alone. If they’ve done something like this, it’s because they were trying to protect themselves. It’s completely and totally normal, and even healthy, when you’re in the situation to try to get to safety in any way that you can.

Kiki: Oh, absolutely. There are several things that come up right away. The first one was we always had holiday parties at their house. They had a beautiful pool and her husband said something that seemed very innocuous and she started yelling. You promised me you wouldn’t say that you wouldn’t do this.

ABUSE BY THROWING A SURPRISE PARTY

Kiki: And she kind of goes off the rails a little bit, and we’re all sitting there looking at her like, what is going on right now? And so I immediately go into my people pleasing it’s okay to… and she’s yelling at me, “No, you don’t understand. You don’t understand what he does. I told him not to do this. He told me he wouldn’t do it. To you it seems innocent, but it’s not innocent.” And everybody’s looking at her.

I get her away, and then I get her calmed down. And I go back and her husband is playing the victim. “Oh, poor me, you see, she’s bipolar. She always does this. This is what I have to live with.” And I feel so bad, because at the time, I didn’t realize I was going through it myself. You don’t realize it until after you’re out of it. Another thing, he was just very manipulative. For her 40th birthday, he threw her this amazing party, and everybody was in awe and completely jealous. And she was not happy about it.

She told me afterwards, “I told him, I don’t like things like this. And it was just too much. It was way over the top.” And of course, I’m looking at her like I would give my left arm if my husband would throw me a party like this. Of course, he wouldn’t, because he knew I wanted one. Yeah, so there’s the difference. If you want it, you don’t get it. If you don’t want it, you get it.

Then every year after that, he would throw her a surprise party and he would go out of his way to get people there, and she would walk in the room.

MAKING HER LOOK UNGRATEFUL, UNKIND AND UNCARING

Kiki: And we would all yell, surprise, and she would be devastated. then she’d try to put a smile on her face, and she was dying inside. Because how do you walk into the public where your husband has done this beautiful thing for you, but it’s exactly what you’ve asked him not to do?

By year seven, she just kind of walked in, and then just went off in the corner and drank too much. She didn’t want a dog, but her son wanted a dog. So on her birthday, he bought her a designer dog and invited several friends to see her get the dog. Now she loved the dog with all her heart, but it was that manipulation tactic to say. Look at what a great husband I am. Here’s this $1,500 dog and you don’t get to complain about it.

Anne: Correct me if I’m wrong. But he had effectively made her look ungrateful, unkind, uncaring. Which is exactly what he wanted.

Kiki: Exactly. He was a very charming, gracious host, and the door was always open. I lived next door to them. And she could be reactive at times. And I would hear him talking to his son on the side of the house, and he would be saying. Just be quiet. I’ll help you out. You know how your mother is, you know how your mother gets, so he’s completely not supporting her.

The biggest thing: the woman who he had a long-term affair with, they ended up getting married and they had a destination wedding.

Anne: Did you know about the affair before she died ?

Kiki: I did know about it and she knew about it. She was always concerned about it because her husband had told her it was over.

ALWAYS PITTING EVERYBODY AGAINST ONE ANOTHER

Kiki: But she would get these, Facebook or emails from an email she had never heard of before or a fake name, nobody she knew. That would say, your husband doesn’t love you. At one point, her husband even admitted it was from this woman, and of course, “I love you. I love only you. This woman’s crazy.”

So he always pitted everybody against one another, that they’re crazy. Well, he ends up marrying this woman in a destination wedding. On the 10th anniversary of her death, his new wife, who he had an affair with the whole time. Puts up a post on Facebook that says, “I’ve been keeping a secret. We actually got secretly married on the day before the anniversary of her death” And nobody says a word. There’s whispers behind the scenes, but there’s the, Jesus wants us to forgive and forget.

And I’m like, no. And that’s when I said, “Uhuh, you know what? I’m not gonna keep quiet.” And you know what? I believe it was soul murder, because that’s how abusers manipulate their victims, especially the covert type. It’s so insidious. It just eats away at your soul, and you completely lose yourself.

Anne: That is so strange. Who in their right mind, if they’re a decent person, wants to publicly say that?

Having your new wife tell the whole world that they secretly got married the day before the anniversary of when mom committed suicide. Like, that’s not hurting anyone? What? That’s like next level. How did people react to that post? Were they like, it feels like it would be like radio silence, okay, cray cray town. Or were they like, “Oh, congratulations, I’m so glad you did that secretly because she was so crazy.” What was the reaction?

REACTIONS TO AN ABUSIVE POST

Kiki: Mostly my friends and people who didn’t know her spoke out. It was almost crickets from friends and family, publicly. Several of them reached out behind the scenes or had somebody reach out on their behalf. People seemed afraid to say anything. That’s what they do is gather their minions. I’ve heard he’s sending out paragraphs of these long texts, playing the victim and putting his son in the role of, here’s Kiki hurting my son.

He’s retired from the police force, but is now serving as a bailiff. And that’s, one of the things he’s very concerned about is what if I lose my job or what if I lose face, because nothing triggers a covert abuser than being cornered.

Anne: It’s really, I would say, shocking that that’s what abusive messages sound like. Because they sound so nice and they sound like he’s the victim, really. It’s awful to think that society in general is so blind and in the dark about what these messages look and sound like.

They all look the same. Once you know what you’re looking at, you know how to see it. And my workshop covers that. I took the real life messages from five different, emotionally abusive men and use those and then how to respond to them. And most of them are just not overt. They really sound like nice guys, but when you know what you’re looking for, you’re able to see these are clearly abusive.

Kiki: Yeah, it’s really hard , these are people that we had great times with. You don’t understand that they’re being horrible and they’ve got this whole other life.








INVESTIGATORS TALK TO ME

Kiki: One thing I will say is, the investigator who called me, actually two investigators called me and the one was really good. We talked about coercive abuse. He says, ” A lot of times people think coercive abuse is they lock you in the house or they take away your money. But it’s not always that way.” He says, “I understand what you’re saying.” He said, “Unfortunately, we’re not at the point in our world where it’s really illegal to be a jerk.”

But I did send all his text messages to this investigator and said, “Hey, just in case anything happens, I want you to see this.”

I don’t think she was terrified of him at all, nor was I of my husband. As a matter of fact, about a month before she passed away, she was with another friend and wanted to hire a private investigator. The friend was going to help her, and then a day or two later she wrote and she said, no, don’t do it.

Because even if I find out he’s cheating again, I love my husband and I am not going to leave him. I think she was just so convinced that she was lucky to have this guy . She didn’t understand the covert abuse. I have become this huge investigator on patterns, looking at patterns and trying to figure it all out. Because it is so sneaky and so covert, and it goes over so long. I thought I had the perfect marriage. I didn’t understand until I was out of it.

How much of myself I had lost and how some of these things that I had completely normalized, my ex-husband had me convinced that all men think this way and all men do these things.

YOU DON’T KNOW ALL OF THE ABUSE YOU’RE EXPERIENCING

Kiki: I got married when I was 21 years old. I had never even heard of pornography until I got married. Then we were in the military, and went to the Philippines, where sex was everywhere, so was infidelity. So anytime a husband had an affair, it was the wife’s fault. Because she wasn’t doing what she was supposed to be doing. And even within our group, there were affairs within different couples. The thing was, you don’t take sides. They’re always invited, and whoever shows up, shows up. Of course, it was always the two people having the affair that showed up. And the spouse that was actually wronged didn’t.

It always bothered me. I always felt horrible, but I thought, that’s the way the world is. And it’s really sad when you don’t know what you don’t know until it’s too late.

Anne: Isn’t it too late the whole time? You don’t know all of the emotional and psychological abuse you’re experiencing the entire time.

Kiki: No, you don’t. Until you’re out of it, you’ve lost your mind. You’re blaming yourself for everything. People are dropping out of your life. My ex-husband was married within 30 days to a woman. He’s 70 now, I think she might be 29 or 30. He is the great guy and look, I finally got away from that crazy person. And I’m sitting here in shock as to how I’m the bad person. But that’s because the people we were around, society as a whole, a lot of the times think, time to get a new one. My ex used to do things very covertly. He knew I was always very concerned about my weight.

COVERTLY UNDERMINING SELF-ESTEEM

Kiki: Of course, he made me concerned about my weight. He would come home and say, I brought us cake for dessert, and tonight when we’re watching TV, we could eat cake for dessert. And I’d be like, okay.

It was always the kind of cake, almost 99% of the time, he liked. Not the cake I liked. And we would split the piece of cake. Well, while I was eating my cake, we would be watching TV and there would be some beautiful actress on there, and he’d say something like, “Oh what did she allow to happen to herself? She just turned into such a fat pig.” Like he would say that. And here’s me sitting here.

Anne: Wow.

Kiki: So used to people talking that way, that I look and it’s this beautiful woman. I say, “Are you crazy? She’s gorgeous, she’s beautiful.” And he’d say, “Well, honey, don’t get jealous or upset. I mean, she’s not 55 years old and she hasn’t had two kids.” So suddenly that cake is just sitting there in your throat, like this lump of cement. That’s how badly I had been groomed. He would say these horrible things and say, all men think that way. That’s how a lot of people thought in the circle we were with. He told me one time. You know how they always tell on themselves?

He says, “I’m not really mad at you. I kind of respect you for finally standing up for yourself.” And I just went, oh my, he knew. It’s a game.

Anne: It’s a game of exploitation. How much can I exploit her, how much can I get from her? How can I use her without having to give very much? They know they have to give a little bit.

CALCULATING TO EXPLOIT

Anne: But like, what is the least amount I can give for the most amount I can get? And they’re not caring about us. They are using us. Their motions, as if they care, are calculated to exploit us. They’re like, what’s the biggest bang I can get for this? It’s a completely different vibe that we feel from people when they actually care about us, when they’re not transactional in the way that they interact with us.

All of this I talk about in detail in my Workshop , like exactly why this happens and what to look for, to know if they are transactional in their relationships. That means every time he says, I care about you, he’s calculated that in order to get something out of you, he’s not actually caring about you.

That’s what makes couple therapy so impossible or going to clergy so impossible, or friends. Because he’ll never actually say the truth of how he feels and what his intentions are.

Kiki: Oh yeah. I grew up where love was transactional.

I know it’s not my fault, but if I want a healthy relationship, then I have to understand that.

Anne: The plane wreck’s not your fault. It’s not your fault that the plane didn’t have supplies on it. It’s not your fault that the plane didn’t have a satellite phone. You are gonna need to stand up and start walking toward the nearest city, and I think that’s what you’re talking about. It is where you’re like, okay, the plane wreck is not my fault. None of this is my fault. However, if I don’t stand up and start moving forward, I’m not gonna survive this.

Kiki: Exactly.

HOW THEY ACT IS NOT WHAT THEY SAY

Anne: That survival starts with recognizing what these liars do and what they say. If we had to boil it down—though it’s almost impossible—it’s this: if you only observed what they did with your eyes and not your ears, what would you see? Most of the time, you would see that how they act doesn’t match what they say. And that’s when women start asking an important question: is lying emotionally abusive? Because when someone’s words and actions never line up, that pattern alone begins to erode your sense of reality.

Kiki: Oh, I often say that if my ex-husband’s lips were moving, there was a lie coming out. Even though he presented as the most wonderful, generous person you ever met in your life. He controlled with size. He controlled with victimhood, the poor me. As a matter of fact, most people would tell you in my family that I wore the pants of the family.

But the reality was, it was just an illusion. I was controlled from the time I woke up through the time I went to bed. I call it death through thousand paper cuts just all day long. “Did ‘you have to put the ketchup in here like this? Why did you put the dish in here like this? Most women would be thrilled that they have a husband that wants to watch TV with them. Why can’t you come sit down and watch TV?”

I’d be like, oh yeah, you’re right. And I’d go running and never understand what was really going on. I think that happens in a lot of marriages, and it still didn’t all add up for me. I had to learn patterns, because to me, coercive meant it was mean, but it’s not always.

SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT ON EMOTIONAL BATTERING

Anne: You mentioned they can hurt you just as much with a piece of cake as they can with a fist. The most abusive thing someone can do is tell you they love you when it’s not true. They’re using you. They love what they can get from you, but actually caring about you, not so much.

Thank you so much. Kiki, you’re incredible for wanting to set the record straight about who your friend was and why she was acting the way that she was. She was doing what any healthy woman would do, not understanding her situation, and trying to create some emotional safety for herself. In the best way that she knew how and she didn’t know what was happening and she didn’t know what to do about it.

And that’s not her fault. That’s society’s fault. That’s every therapist that they went to’s fault. If they went to therapy or clergy or whoever, who did not educate her about what was actually happening.

Because women in this situation, they do the right thing. They try to get help. They try to get information, they try to listen to their husband and communicate with him more. Whatever it is they’re trying to do, they have good intentions. It’s really unfortunate that bystanders, professionals, people outside, they attribute good intentions to someone. Meaning an abusive man who doesn’t have them. He actually has bad intentions.

So, that’s awesome that you’re honoring your friend in this way. I bet she’s looking on you and thanking you for that.

WANTING PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND

Kiki: I hope so. Yeah, I wanted people to understand who she really was and why she was the way she was sometimes, and even for her son to maybe understand who his mother really was and what was happening. Because I think that’s the biggest travesty. I’m being blamed for hurting the son, but the son is still caught in these dynamics within a system that protects the perpetrator. The truth may hurt, but lies will kill you.

Anne: Yeah, oh, that is so true.

Kiki: Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity. You’re amazing. BTR is amazing and thank you.

Anne: Thank you.

If your husband has betrayed you, figuring out how to rebuild trust in a relationship can feel overwhelming. You may even feel pressure, from others or from yourself, to help him rebuild that trust by explaining what you need to feel safe again. However, that can actually put you at risk.

After all, you can’t rebuild trust for him. Trust only grows when he consistently chooses to be trustworthy.

That’s why, if your husband has broken your trust and you want to feel safe with him again, it helps to pause, take a step back, and think strategically. If you need support in the process, attend a Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group Session to talk to others in similar situations.

THREE WAYS HOW TO REBUILD TRUST IN A RELATIONSHIP

1. UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF TRUST

The first and most crucial step is to understand that you shouldn’t trust someone who isn’t trustworthy. The person who broke the trust is the only one who can repair the damage by changing their actions and demonstrating their commitment to honesty over time.

2. RESIST THE PRESSURE TO TEACH HIM HOW TO BE TRUSTWORTHY

It might seem helpful to tell your partner how to rebuild trust, exactly what they need to do to earn your trust back. But giving instructions like, “text me when you’re late” or “share your location” can create a dangerous illusion of progress when he complies.

He may follow your directions just enough to keep the peace without really changing. Creating a false sense of security and leaving you vulnerable to hurt again.

To find out if he’s using any one of the 19 different types of emotional abuse, take my free emotional abuse test.

3. KNOW THAT EFFORT ISN’T THE SAME AS TRUSTWORTHINESSS

The safest and most effective way to see if your husband becoming trustworthy again is to observe his words and actions over time. Here are some things to look for:

Has he taken full responsibility of restoring trust without making excuses or pressuring you to reconcile?

Is he consistent in his words and behaviors?

Does he show empathy for the pain he caused you?

Keep reading to learn more about how to move forward with clarity, even when you’re not getting answers.

If you’re feeling confused about whether or not your husband is trustworthy, we’re always online to support you. Here’s our daily support group schedule.

Obviously, rebuilding trust after he’s broken it is so hard, and there’s another part of this that’s just as hard. For women of faith, if you’ve been praying and praying for God to help change your husband’s heart, and it’s not happening. That can be so painful, especially when He doesn’t seem to answering prayer for your husband. So if you’re interested in hearing more about this from a faith perspective, here’s my interview with Kirby Kelly.

TRANSCRIPT: HOW TO REBUILD TRUST AFTER BETRAYAL

Anne: Welcome, I have a wonderful guest on today, Kirby Kelly. Kirby is an author and speaker whose book The Fabric of Hope invites listeners into honest reflection on hope and loss without shying away from the depth of human pain.

Her perspective on healing is rooted on both empathy and thoughtful reflection, acknowledging the weight of betrayal, while encouraging steady hope and inner resilience. Kirby, I love that the focus of your book is on when things don’t go quite right. Our audience is interfaith and inner paradigm, so for those of you listening, we’re having a discussion of faith today and the betrayal that a lot of women feel when they’re doing everything right.

They’re reading their scriptures, talking to God, and it’s not going the way they hoped. They’re wondering how to rebuild trust in a relationship with their husband and maybe, even God. So let’s start with what inspired you to write this book?

Kirby: For anyone who doesn’t know who I am, hi, my name is Kirby Kelly. I’m an author, speaker, also a podcaster. We had you on my podcast so people can come over and enjoy and listen to our episode.

I wrote The Fabric of Hope because I have definitely walked through different experiences in my own life of suffering, that I did not ask for. That I did not pray for. It felt like life didn’t just hand me a lemon, but chucked a couple lemons at my face. And being Christian and believing what scripture says about God being good. That was something that I had to reconcile, was the fact that this good, loving, kind, and just God would allow us to go through things that are hard.

FINDING HOPE NO MATTER THE OUTCOME

Kirby: As I thought about what the pattern was in my life. There were moments where there was a lot of bad. A lot of things going on in my life were difficult, but I was able to see God work miraculously, give me hope, weave redemption into those places. And although there are some seasons and situations I wish I didn’t have to go through.

I’m now able to look back with perspective and see how God used all of those things for good and how he is my hope, not my outcome. When I place my hope in Jesus, there’s real redemption that I otherwise might discard and think would never be used for good.

And knowing that a lot of people go through hard things or have gone through hard things, and are also trying to reconcile that, well, is God good? In answering these hard questions, I wanted people to wrestle honestly and wisely with the whys they ask, but also arrive at the same conclusion as me, of knowing, hey, God is a redeemer of all things, and we can live a life full of hope.

Anne: Yeah, oh, I’m so glad you brought that up. So for me, my experience with betrayal brought me closer to God. In interviewing all the women that I’ve interviewed, for some women, it takes them farther away. So our stance here at BTR is that whatever works for you works for us. If church or religion or even God feels unsafe to you and learning how to rebuild trust is not even on your radar, you’re welcome here.

HOW TO REBUILD TRUST WHEN FAITH FEELS UNSAFE

Anne: So if you’re somebody who’s like, you know what, I just can’t. I just wanted to let you know that’s what this will be about. So you’re not like, I don’t want this. ‘Cause so many women, they’ve been so spiritually abused.

So they’ve gone in for help maybe with their betrayal or trauma from what is, essentially hidden abuse. And their clergy has told them that they have to submit more or they have to forgive when they’re really genuinely emotionally unsafe. So for women who have grappled with that and are grappling with betrayal, and wondering, is God there?

And they want God to be there, but they can’t feel him. I’ll just say one more thing from my own personal experience. After my husband’s arrest, I could not feel God at all. Not even a little bit. I prayed, couldn’t feel his comfort, couldn’t feel anything. I was just in intense distress for about nine months, wondering how to rebuild trust in God.

And I would go in my closet sometimes. I would wrap a blanket around me. No matter how hard I prayed, no matter how much I studied the scriptures, I could not feel him. I knew that I would at some point, and so I continued to do it. And I remember this one night, it, I woke up in the middle of the night and for literally like maybe two seconds, I felt comfort for the first time in nine months.

And it was like, okay, he’s there. I think I sat up and I was like. Was that real? Is that just me? And I felt it again and I thought, okay, everything’s gonna be okay. God knows who I am. And then I didn’t feel it again for months.

FINDING HOPE IN THE PATTERNS OF GOD’S FAITHFULNESS

Anne: So it was really, really hard. Just knowing that, and that women are going through this, and that some women really want to hold onto their faith even when they can’t even feel God. Can you share some things that might bring them comfort?

Kirby: As you were talking, I thought of the story of Joseph. Because that’s a story of betrayal. He was betrayed by his brothers, sold into slavery, falsely accused. imprisoned, and forgotten about. This was his life over the span of decades. Yet, God ended up using it all to save the nations from a famine, These broken pieces of his life that he probably questioned if it could ever be used for anything good, ended up being the very stepping stones that led him to great purpose.

In Genesis 50:20, he even says to the face of the people who betrayed him, and I’m not saying that you have to come face to face and completely reconcile with the people who betrayed you, but in Joseph’s story, he was able to look at the people who put him through what he went through and say, “Hey, what you all intended for evil. God ended up using it all for good.”

Joseph’s pain was real. The betrayal that he went through was real. But it wasn’t final. That wasn’t the end of his story. God was able to redeem that situation.

HOW TO REBUILD TRUST BY HOLDING ONTO WHAT IS STILL TRUE

Kirby: And sometimes we don’t understand the things that we go through or what God has allowed us to go through, until later. And if you’re not getting that clarity at this moment, if you’re not feeling comfort, there are four things that I write about in my book that we can hedge our hope on, and sometimes they might overlap in certain seasons. Other times it might just be one pillar that we stand on. We can hope in the promises of God, we really can. And learn how to rebuild trust in Him.

Another thing that we can hope in is his patterns, and that’s why I bring up the story of Joseph. Because maybe you’re not seeing it happen right here, right now for you, your healing, your deliverance, whatever it is that you’re praying for. We can at least look at the patterns of God’s faithfulness, that he has this pattern of redemption. Maybe it’s not always on our timeline or how we expect, but we can have that hope and that confident expectation that God, you are a redeemer you can redeem this thing too.

Two other things that we can hope in is his presence, that he is with us even when we don’t feel it. That he is near to the brokenhearted and he saves those who are crushed in spirit. And then the last thing that we can hope in is his personhood.

And what I mean by that is his character. If God is who he says he is. Then that means he is kind. He is just, merciful, loving. I know that our circumstances can shout at us.

SCRIPTURES HELP BY GIVING EXAMPLES

Kirby: Well, if you’re going through something bad, how can God be good? I know the Christianese answer that maybe you’re tired of hearing is that we live in a broken world, but we do. There are people who are operating out of their own selfishness, and they end up wounding other people.And it’s really sad and unfortunate when we’re the ones on the receiving end of that. God is not the author of evil. He’s the redeemer of it.

He can actually do a good work, because we see that time and time again in scripture. We also have to understand that these people were real people, and probably didn’t have the five-year plan either. They didn’t know what God was up to. I think that can bring us to a place of, okay, if they were able to get through this, that will give me strength and hope to trust in God in my own betrayal story.

Anne: Yeah, and not knowing what that resolution would be. There are so many women who have come to share their story on my podcast, and have talked about this. Many of them have ended up divorced. Many of them are in the middle of it. They don’t really know what their financial situation will be and they’re wondering, “what if I can never trust my husband again?”

They don’t know how it’s going to work out, but they testify, I would say, of God’s love and that their relationship with God improved. I welcome everyone who has been betrayed to come share their story no matter what happened to them.

WHAT TO DO WHEN YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS

Anne: I was talking to my sister, who is not a believer, and we were discussing our different views on things. And she said, “Well, you’ve never doubted.”

And I thought, yeah, I have, ’cause I’ve been like, where are you, God? But actually, she’s right. I’ve never had a time where I thought, is God actually there? I know other people have, and I totally validate that, but I’ve always known He was there. And so when I couldn’t feel Him, rather than feeling abandoned, I was actually angrier.

Like, I know you’re there. Why are you not talking to me? My experience has always been not so much like thinking He wasn’t there, but more being mad at Him. Like, if you can do anything, what is going on? My experience has been when I’m just totally honest with Him and tell Him how mad I am, it works out really great because He loves our honesty and wants to be there for us while we learn how to rebuild trust.

Kirby: Oh, absolutely. I think we need to be honest with God about what we are feeling and experiencing, honest about our pain. I think about the biblical concept of lament. Lament is like this deep sorrowful, woeful cry. From the depths of our soul.

Like you said, I feel justified in my anger, in my disappointment. I feel justified in wondering why things are going the way they are. One third of the Psalms are lament. I think that’s really telling of the human experience, because I think a lot of people gravitate towards the Psalms when it comes to dealing with hard things, needing hope.




YOU DON’T HAVE TO PRETEND YOU’RE OKAY WHILE LEARNING HOW TO REBUILD TRUST IN A RELATIONSHIP

Kirby: In seasons where they feel like they’re wavering or just trying to navigate something that’s super difficult and unknown to them.There’s even a whole book called Lamentations.

Anne: I’m just now putting two and two together. That it’s literally called Lamentations.

Kirby: This is about weeping and mourning and being like, God, what is going on? In any form of lament I’ve noticed, at least as I’ve studied the laments, because for me, three years ago, this wasn’t necessarily betrayal, but loss. My mom died. And I remember going through the laments and just being like, this is all that I feel like my heart can relate to right now is the God, why? Why are my enemies after me? And why are they pursuing me? Why is everything overcoming me?

In the laments, there’s this honest pouring out of this is everything I’m carrying and feeling and thinking. But what’s beautiful about lament and also beautiful about praise, both end in hope. Praise ends in hope. A lot of the laments, they end on this high note of hope. Of declaring and remembering, okay, but you are good, this is what you have promised, this is what you have done in my life.

This is your record of faithfulness. I’m going to cling onto this because I know that if you were able to bring resolution to those things, then where I’m at right now isn’t the end of the story. So to the person who’s like actually wrestling and maybe grew up in a church environment where you had to fake fine.

HONEST DOUBTS AND QUESTIONS

Kirby: Or you grew up in a community where they didn’t want you to bring honest questions or honest doubts before the Lord and wrestle with those things. We need to wrestle with those things and bring them to the Lord, because he’s not looking for performative Christianity. Especially when it comes to navigating the really hard human things that we go through. We don’t have to edit our emotions before we go to him.

In Psalm 62:8, we are told to pour out our hearts before him. He already knows you’re feeling it and he might be thinking, well, if he already knows I’m feeling it, do it for you. When you begin that open conversation with Him, we can get to a place where we can begin to take the steps of trusting God with the situation and to see his hand at work behind the scenes.

Anne: I think so many women who are experiencing their husband’s betrayal have prayed so much that many are sick of it. They’re like, this isn’t working. I pray for the same thing every day.  They’re not sure how to rebuild trust with someone who isn’t really changing. Also, they’ve been lied to about prayer. I’m gonna say true things that are also lies in this particular situation. So the true thing is God can work miracles. The true thing is God can change people’s hearts.

The true thing is, God can heal people. The lie is that it will happen. And when I say that it’s not that God isn’t capable, it’s that somebody might not want their heart to be changed.

FINDING THE TRUTH THAT SETS YOU FREE

Anne: So then if they hear, “Pray and God will heal you,” which was true. It sounds a lot like pray and God will heal your marriage. So, you have to stay married to this abusive man. but that’s not really what God wants. The Bible isn’t to oppress us and to force us to do things that are really not good for us. It’s for us to find God’s love and to learn how to rebuild trust.

Kirby: Yeah, it really matters contextually these promises that we’re reading about where a person prayed a specific prayer, they prayed for something and they got a certain result.

And it’s easy for us to be like, okay, if I pray that exact prayer, if I do this exact thing, then it’s going to happen exactly like it happened for these people. Or it’s going to turn out the way that I’ve always heard it taught to me. And this is why context matters. Because I think that sometimes we can read scripture and just read one verse and end up with a misinterpretation.

When I think about prayer, we’re told to ask and seek and knock at the door, and it’ll be given to you. But we’re also seeing in scripture, not my will, your will be done. So there is this dichotomy of God can do it. But will He do it?

Will He do it in the way that we expect? Will He do it on our timeline? And will He do it the way that he did it for the person sitting next to you in your small group? Or the person that you just read about in scripture?

HOW TO REBUILD TRUST IN A RELATIONSHIP REQUIRES WILLINGNESS, NOT JUST POTENTIAL

Kirby: And that’s the providence of God, he can do anything that is within his limits of being God. But at the same time, he created man with free will.

Anne: They can be in open rebellion. God could be trying to help them and they are literally like, no God , I’m not doing it.

Kirby: And the whole point of that is because He created us to be in relationship, to give us autonomy, to give us choice, to actually choose how to rebuild trust in our relationships. Because love is a choice, to be in relationship, to give your heart to somebody else. God’s not going to overstep boundaries. He respects boundaries. And I’m thankful God is kind and gentle in that way. But at the same time, God can move in our lives. He’s moved in mine. I’m sure He’s moved in yours and can move in the lives of other people that we are praying for.

But like you said, because he has given us that autonomy, we all have that choice. And as much as that can be so frustrating for us who are praying for the breakthrough, the miracle, or the relationship to be restored. It can be warped in a way to think, well God, you’re not good for not doing this. If he’s not changing the heart of the other person, I think a prayer that we can begin to pray is, “God, what do you wanna change within my heart? What do you wanna change within my prayers?

What is something different or new that you want to do, that you want to reveal to me to start praying for?”

RELEASING EXPECTATIONS

Kirby: I mean, keep praying for it if you want to, if you feel that conviction to, but maybe there’s a new perspective or a shift, maybe it looks different, so maybe that’s something to start preparing your heart for, but that doesn’t make it bad, it’s probably going to be greater than the thing that we’re putting expectation in. We can put expectation in God to answer, move, work, redeem, but we also need to release expectation of what that might look like, especially when other people who have their own will are involved.

Anne: I’m smiling because the way you describe it sounds extremely nice. For me, it’s more like, “God, I’m so mad at you.”

Kirby: Yeah.

Anne: You are driving me crazy. I know you can do this, and you are not doing it.

Kirby: Oh, trust me. I feel that.

Anne: And in that moment I’m so frustrated.

Kirby: That’s real. I’ve been there too, but God is so kind that even when I’m showing up with any attitude, any anger, or any emotion, whatever it is, he’s not trying to get me to the next thing, even though I’m like, get me to the next thing. He’s like, we just need to walk right now. And there’s a lot of grace in the slow down pace of trying to heal us that often we don’t realize. Until oh yeah, You were doing something deeper in this whole situation that I ever could have thought. And He’s not an I told you so kind of God.

Anne: No.

MOTHER TERESA AND GRATITUDE

Kirby: I’m glad you see it now kind of God. And I’m thankful for that.

Anne: Yeah, and I’m like, wow, He really loves me, like literally loves me so much because I am like 98% lamentation and maybe 0.001% praise. And I don’t know what the other part is. Maybe like mild, thank you, gratitude, maybe that’s what it is. But I’m so much more lamentation than praise. So I’m happy to hear that at least that’s getting me somewhere.

Kirby: Well, hey, you relate to a lot of the people in scripture.

Anne: I was reading about Mother Teresa the other day. There’s a book, I haven’t read it yet, but I just read the book cover. So I don’t know what I’m talking about. But it was by a nun who worked with Mother Teresa for most of her life, and she said that Mother Teresa felt abandoned and angry with God most of her life.

And she personally knew her. Not angry in a, I’m not gonna do your work kind of way, but just like, why is this happening? And I thought, oh, I need to read this book, because Mother Teresa and I, I’m not saying I’m as good as she was or anything like that, but I was like, we have some stuff in common.

I relate to this and think this idea, and I’ll call it more spiritual abuse, that “righteous women,” maybe talk a certain way or look a certain way, or they wouldn’t be angry with God or they wouldn’t wrestle with some things. I think it is a disservice to women, because they don’t realize all the different options they have to interact with, because I’m Christian too, our Savior, or with God.

SPIRITUAL ABUSE CAUSES LACK OF TRUST

Anne: I think opening it up to realize that the maybe there’s more to our relationship with Him than the spiritually abused way of seeing Him, that people use so that you aren’t getting out of your lane. So that they could keep you in the spot they wanted to keep you in. I’m not talking about all religious leaders or anything. But, abusive men do this quite often. There are so many options than you knew to have a relationship with God, I think is really important for women who want it. They want to know how to rebuild trust.

Kirby: I wanna add that for women who have gone through spiritual abuse, specifically by their husbands or ex-husbands, maybe that was even affirmed in leadership in the church. And you have this anger towards this patriarchal God. The more and more I’ve studied it, God loves his daughters, He fights for his daughters, He sees his daughters, He interacts with his daughters, he invites his daughters.

And so if you can get to know God as a father, a perfect father. Not your father, not the man you married and how he treated your kids, not the father of your church.

Anne: Yeah, thank you. I couldn’t agree more. There’s so many instances in the New Testament of Christ treating women in ways that were absolutely…

Kirby: Ludicrous to society.

Anne: Yeah, and so he was a disruptor. He was definitely not the poster child for institutional obedience. That’s for sure. I love that about Him.

Kirby: You wanna know who God is? Look at Jesus. He is the word of God, the heart of God, like the Son of God walking around.

Anne: Yeah, I love that. You are amazing. Thank you so much.