The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

When we’re struggling to reach a goal, most of us assume the answer is to buckle down and try harder. But what if all that white-knuckling is actually making things more difficult than they need to be?
Dr. Laurie speaks with psychologist Angela Duckworth, best known for her groundbreaking work on grit, about a surprising new approach to achievement. In her new book, Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best, Angela explains why changing what’s around us can sometimes be more effective than trying to change ourselves.
Experts Mentioned:
Angela Duckworth, Professor of Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania
Lee Ross, Professor of Psychology at Stanford University
Richard Nisbett, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Michigan
James Gross, Professor of Psychology at Stanford University
Adrian Ward, Associate Professor of Marketing at University of Texas at Austin
Joseph Henrich, Professor of Biological Anthropology and Professor of Human Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University
Bob Bowman, Director of Swimming and Diving and Head Men’s Coach at University of Texas at Austin
Martin Seligman, Professor of Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania
Anders Ericsson, Professor of Psychology at Florida State University
Walter Mischel, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at Columbia University
Reinhold Niebuhr, Protestant theologian
Viktor Frankl, Austrian psychiatrist and neurologist
Resources Mentioned:
Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best, by Angela Duckworth (2026)
Grit: The Power and Passion of Perseverance, by Angela Duckworth (2016)
The Person and the Situation: Perspectives on Social Psychology, by Lee Ross and Richard Nisbett (1991)
Frog and Toad Together, by Arnold Lobel (1972)
Man's Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl (1946)
“The Serenity Prayer,” by Reinhold Niebuhr
The Art of War, by Sun Tzu
The Golden Rules: 10 Steps to World-Class Excellence in Your Life and Work, by Bob Bowman (2016)
“A Stitch in Time: Strategic Self-Control in High School and College Students,” by Angela Duckworth, Rachel White, Alyssa Matteucci, Annie Shearer, and James Gross (Journal of Educational Psychology, 2016)
“Self-Control and Academic Achievement,” by Angela Duckworth, Jamie Taxer, Lauren Eskreis-Winkler, Brian Galla, and James Gross (Annual Review of Psychology, 2019)
“Self-control and SAT outcomes: Evidence from two national field studies,” by Chayce Baldwin, Kyla Haimovitz, Priya Shankar, Robert Gallop, David Yeager, James Gross, and Angela Duckworth (PLoS One, 2022)
“Situational Strategies for Self-Control,” by Angela Duckworth, Tamar Szabó Gendler, and James Gross (Perspectives on Psychological Science, 2016)
“Brain Drain: The Mere Presence of One's Own Smartphone Reduces Available Cognitive Capacity,” by Adrian Ward, Kristen Duke, Ayelet Gneezy, and Maarten Bos. (Journal of the Association for Consumer Research, 2017)
“A 2-Phase Labeling and Choice Architecture Intervention to Improve Healthy Food and Beverage Choices,” by Anne N Thorndike, Lillian Sonnenberg, Jason Riis, Susan Barraclough, and Douglas E Levy (American Journal of Public Health, 2012)
“Innovation in the collective brain,” by Michael Muthukrishna and Joseph Henrich (Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B, 2016)
Related Episodes:
“Your Environment Affects Your Happiness More Than You Think with Dr. Leidy Klotz”
“How to Spend Your Time and Money Better (with Nobel Prize Winner Richard Thaler)”
“The Man Who Invented Happiness Science: Marty Seligman”
“How Our Screen Habits Impact Our Stress Levels”
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It’s hard to focus on wellbeing when we’re expected to work nonstop until retirement. Taking a break from time to time should be a given, not a privilege.
Dr. Laurie works in one of the few industries that recognizes the importance of extended time off. As she begins her own year-long sabbatical from Yale, we’re revisiting her conversation with DJ DiDonna, author of Big Time Off, about what can happen when we step away from work for more than just a vacation.
DJ breaks down how to manage the biggest barriers to taking a sabbatical, from money and workplace optics to family responsibilities. He also explains why extended time off can help us recover from burnout, rethink our routines, and experiment with different versions of ourselves.
Whether you’re contemplating months away or just fantasizing about turning off your email, this episode makes the case that sometimes the best way to move forward is to stop for a while.
Experts Mentioned:
DJ DiDonna, Senior Lecturer of Business Administration at Harvard Business School
Resources Mentioned:
Big Time Off: The Transformative Power of Sabbaticals and How to Take One, by DJ DiDonna (2026)
Recover, Explore, Practice: The Transformative Potential of Sabbaticals, by Kira Schabram, Matt Bloom, and DJ DiDonna (Academy of Management Discoveries, 2023)
The Sabbatical Project
Related Episodes:
“You Can Change”
“Happiness Lessons of the Ancients: The Day of Rest”
“How to be Happier at Work (with Dan Harris)”
“Burnout and How to Avoid It”
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Most of us hate asking for favors. We worry about being a burden, coming across as needy, or facing rejection for asking too much. But what if our fear of bothering people is stopping us, and the people around us, from becoming happier?
Dr. Laurie explores why our instincts about asking for help are usually wrong. She speaks with psychologist Nicholas Epley about why asking others for help can actually make them like us more. And author and entrepreneur Jia Jiang shares how 100 days of asking for outlandish favors totally transformed his life.
Experts Mentioned:
Nicholas Epley, Professor of Behavioral Science at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business
Jia Jiang, author, entrepreneur, and expert in “rejection therapy”
Resources Mentioned:
Rejection Proof: How I Beat Fear and Became Invincible Through 100 Days of Rejection, by Jia Jiang (2015)
“What I Learned from 100 Days of Rejection,” by Jia Jiang (TED, 2016)
“100 Days of Rejection Therapy,” by Jia Jiang (YouTube series, 2013)
RejectionTherapy.com
“Surprisingly Happy to Have Helped: Underestimating Prosociality Creates a Misplaced Barrier to Asking for Help,” by Xuan Zhao and Nicholas Epley (Psychological Science, 2022)
“Beautiful mess effect: Self–other differences in evaluation of showing vulnerability,” by Anna Bruk, Sabine Scholl, and Herbert Bless (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2018)
Related Episodes:
“Treating the Pain of a Broken Heart”
“Forget Small Talk: Go Deep Instead”
“The Surprising Case for Oversharing”
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In recent years, we've heard a lot of unsettling news about the loneliness epidemic and the dangers of social isolation. But could all this talk about loneliness paradoxically be making the problem... worse?
Dr. Laurie unpacks what we get wrong about loneliness. Along the way, she speaks with historian Fay Bound-Alberti about why loneliness, as we think of it today, is a surprisingly modern phenomenon. Psychologist Micaela Rodriguez explains why we often confuse loneliness with being alone — and why learning to enjoy solitude can actually make us less lonely. And writer Emma Gannon shares practical tips for embracing the joy of your own company.
Laurie discovers why spending time alone is a skill, and how getting better at it can help us regulate our emotions, spark creativity, and strengthen our connections with others.
Experts Mentioned:
Vivek Murthy, 19th and 21st Surgeon General of the United States
Fay Bound-Alberti, Professor of Modern History at King’s College London
Micaela Rodriguez, Assistant Professor of Psychology at Yale University
Emma Gannon, author, blogger, and podcaster
Matthew Killingsworth, Senior Fellow at The Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania
Timothy Wilson, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Virginia
Scott Campbell, Professor of Mediated Communication at The Ohio State University
Julia Cameron, author, poet, songwriter, filmmaker, and playwright
Blaise Pascal, 17th-century French philosopher
Resources Mentioned:
“Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation: The U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory on the Healing Effects of Social Connection and Community,” by Office of the Surgeon General (2023)
“Social connection linked to improved health and reduced risk of early death,” by World Health Organization Media Team (2025)
A Biography of Loneliness: The History of an Emotion, by Fay Bound-Alberti (2019)
“Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind,” by Timothy Wilson, David Reinhard, Erin Westgate, Daniel Gilbert, Nicole Ellerbeck, Cheryl Hahn, Casey Brown, and Adi Shaked (Science, 2014)
“How people think about being alone shapes their experience of loneliness,” by Micaela Rodriguez, Kathryn E. Schertz, and Ethan Kross (Nature Communications, 2025)
“From ‘isolation’ to ‘me-time’: Linguistic shifts enhance solitary experiences,” by Micaela Rodriguez and Scott Campbell (Cognition and Emotion, 2025)
“Solitude can be good—If you see it as such: Reappraisal helps lonely people experience solitude more positively,” by Micaela Rodriguez, Samuel Pratt, Benjamin W. Bellet, and Richard J. McNally (Journal of Personality, 2023)
A Creative Compass: Finding Your Way to a Creative Life, by Emma Gannon (2026)
“A love letter to solitude,” by Emma Gannon (The Hyphen, 2025)
“‘Don’t you have friends to go with?’: the stigma and joy of a table for one,” by Emma Gannon (The Guardian, 2026)
The Artist’s Way, by Julia Cameron (1992)
Related Episodes:
“Beat Your Isolation Loneliness”
“Fighting that "Meh" Feeling of Languishing”
“Emotions Are Data…So Listen to Them”
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What would it take to make you happier? A raise? A promotion? Getting into your dream school? Winning the lottery? It turns out that we’re surprisingly bad at predicting how these events will actually make us feel. When they do make us happier, research shows that the highs won’t last as long as we expect. The good news is that the lows won't last as long as we expect either. We're just as bad at predicting how life's setbacks will affect us.
Dr. Laurie speaks with Harvard psychologist Daniel Gilbert about why our minds exaggerate the emotional impact of life’s biggest events. She also hears from psychotherapist Clay Cockrell about why extreme wealth often comes with misery, and from writer Rafaella Gunz and Army veteran J.R. Martinez about their journeys toward happiness and meaning after experiences they once thought would ruin their lives.
Experts Mentioned:
Daniel Gilbert, Professor of Psychology at Harvard University
Clay Cockrell, Licensed Clinical Social Worker and Psychotherapist
Daniel Kahneman, Professor of Psychology, Emeritus, and Professor of Psychology and Public Affairs, Emeritus at Princeton University
Angus Deaton, Professor of International Affairs, Emeritus, and Professor of Economics and International Affairs, Emeritus at Princeton University
Matthew Killingsworth, Senior Fellow at The Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania
Rafaella Gunz, writer and social worker
J.R. Martinez, Army veteran, actor, author, and podcast host
Resources Mentioned:
“Billie Bob’s (Mis) Fortune,” by Steve McViker (Houston Press, 2000)
“The How of Happiness: A New Approach to Getting the Life You Want,” by Sonja Lyubomirsky (2007)
“High income improves evaluation of life but not emotional well-being,” by Daniel Kahneman and Angus Deaton (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2010)
“Experienced well-being rises with income, even above $75,000 per year,” by Matthew Killingsworth (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2023)
“Income and emotional well-being: a conflict resolved,” by Matthew Killingsworth, Daniel Kahneman, and Barbara Mellers (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2023)
Stumbling on Happiness, by Daniel Gilbert (2006)
“Immune neglect: a source of durability bias in affective forecasting,” by Daniel Gilbert, Elizabeth Pinel, Timothy Wilson, Stephen Blumberg, and Thalia Wheatley (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 1998)
“Affective forecasting: Why can't people predict their emotions?,” by Peter Ayton, Alice Pott, and Najat Elwakili (Thinking & Reasoning, 2007)
“Anticipated versus actual reaction to HIV test results,” by Elaine Sieff, Robyn Dawes, and George Lowenstein (The American Journal of Psychology, 1999)
Well-Being: Foundations of Hedonic Psychology, by Daniel Kahneman, Edward Diener, and Norbert Schwartz (1999)
“Getting Herpes Was a Gift,” by Rafaella Gunz (Ravishly, 2016)
“The impact bias is alive and well,” by Timothy Wilson and Daniel Gilbert (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2013)
Full of Heart: My Story of Survival, Strength, and Spirit, by J.R. Martinez with Alexandra Rockey Fleming (2012)
Related Episodes:
“Why We Sabotage Our Future Selves”
“Why the ‘Good Enough’ Relationship Beats the ‘Perfect Partner’”
“Working Your Way to Happiness”
“Why Nostalgia Ain’t So Rosy”
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