Growth Mavericks

What does it take to go from being found as a baby on a battlefield in Iraq to performing in stadiums around the world with one of the biggest bands on the planet?
In this episode of the Growth Mavericks Podcast, Adam Callinan sits down with Emmanuel Kelly—singer, entrepreneur, founder of Outlyer Entertainment, and one of the most relentlessly optimistic people you’ll ever meet.
Emmanuel’s story begins in Iraq, where he was found as a baby in a box on a battlefield and raised in an orphanage surrounded by war. After being brought to Australia by humanitarian Moira Kelly, he underwent years of surgeries and learned to walk for the first time around age 11.
But surviving those circumstances is only the beginning of the story.
After appearing on X Factor Australia as a teenager, Emmanuel was thrown into the entertainment industry and experienced the darker side of sudden attention, fame, and what he calls “fake love.” Eventually, the momentum disappeared. He lost his money, lost his sense of direction, and found himself homeless in Los Angeles—something he managed to hide from almost everyone around him.
At 5 a.m. one morning, sitting on a park bench in Santa Monica after sleeping outside, Emmanuel watched the sunrise and remembered the kid he had been in Iraq: hopeful, determined, and unwilling to quit. He decided to ask for help and start rebuilding.
What happened next is almost unbelievable.
Emmanuel put a goal on his wall: perform with a major artist and a legendary artist before the end of the year. Then he started making as many as 100 phone calls a day, asking everyone he knew—and plenty of people he didn’t—for a way in.
Eventually, one connection led to another, a video found its way to Chris Martin, and Emmanuel got the call from Coldplay. What began with a single opportunity developed into a friendship and eventually led to Emmanuel opening 12 international stadium concerts for the band.
Adam and Emmanuel dig into what that journey taught him about resilience, self-love, purpose, working hard versus working smart, surrounding yourself with the right people, and why the challenges we instinctively avoid may be exactly what unlocks what we’re capable of.
They also discuss Emmanuel’s next mission: Outlyer Entertainment, the company he co-founded with Chris Martin to bring people with disabilities and other “outliers” into mainstream film, television, and live entertainment—not through charity, but through commercially successful content and zero-barrier casting and crewing.
Whether you’re building a company, recovering from failure, questioning your own limits, or simply need a reset on what actually qualifies as a hard day, Emmanuel’s story is a powerful reminder of what can happen when you keep moving forward.
Key Takeaways
Emmanuel’s extraordinary journey from an Iraqi battlefield to Australia.
Growing up in an orphanage surrounded by war and uncertainty.
How hope became a survival mechanism long before it became a philosophy.
Learning to walk for the first time around age 11.
Why determination and willpower are abilities Emmanuel believes everyone can develop.
The unexpected downside of fame after X Factor Australia.
How external validation and “fake love” can replace genuine self-worth.
Losing everything and secretly becoming homeless in Los Angeles.
The 5 a.m. moment on a Santa Monica park bench that triggered his rebuild.
Why asking for help required Emmanuel to let go of pride and ego.
Setting an audacious goal and making up to 100 calls a day to make it happen.
The remarkable chain of connections that eventually reached Chris Martin.
Going from homelessness to performing with Coldplay and eventually opening stadium shows around the world.
Why resilience is often about staying in the game long enough for an outlier opportunity to appear.
The difference between working hard and working smart.
Why Emmanuel deliberately surrounds himself with people who represent qualities he wants to develop.
Using challenge rather than comfort as a trigger for growth.
Why rest and recovery have actually helped Emmanuel accomplish more.
The mission behind Outlyer Entertainment and its zero-barrier approach to entertainment.
Why Emmanuel sees commercial opportunity—not charity—as the path toward meaningful inclusion.
Explore
Emmanuel Kelly
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emmanuelkellyofficial/
0UTLYER
https://0utlyer.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/outlyerofficial/
Pentane
https://www.pentane.com/
Growth Mavericks Podcast
https://www.growthmaverickspodcast.com/

Chapters
00:00 Introduction
05:19 Found in a box on a battlefield in Iraq
06:31 Growing up surrounded by war
08:07 Hope, perspective, and the bond with his brother
09:15 Being brought to Australia by Moira Kelly
10:47 Learning to walk and becoming self-sufficient
13:42 Discovering determination and self-belief
14:54 X Factor, music, and coming to America
16:20 Losing self-love after sudden fame
18:52 Losing everything
20:26 Hitting rock bottom and becoming homeless
22:47 Asking for help and beginning the rebuild
24:54 Finding purpose through adversity
29:15 Why Emmanuel embraces difficult things
31:10 Using challenge as fuel
35:40 Becoming the first and finding the next challenge
36:03 Why music became the vehicle
37:23 The journey from X Factor to Coldplay
38:03 Rebuilding through relentless outreach
41:59 The connection that finally reached Chris Martin
46:00 The beginning of Emmanuel and Chris Martin’s friendship
47:40 Turning a written goal into reality
49:21 Staying alive long enough for the outlier opportunity
49:58 Working hard vs. working smart
52:02 Surrounding yourself with the right people
54:00 Building Outlyer Entertainment with Chris Martin
57:50 Zero-barrier casting and crewing
59:15 Where to find Emmanuel and Outlyer
1:00:41 “What would Emmanuel do?”
1:02:09 Why recovery and weekends matter
1:05:29 Closing thoughts

What if the harder path isn't something to avoid—but actually your greatest competitive advantage?
In this episode of the Growth Mavericks Podcast, Adam Callinan sits down with entrepreneur and author Joshua Waldron to explore how deliberately choosing difficult problems can create resilience, competitive moats, and businesses that are exceptionally hard to replicate.
At 15 years old, Joshua broke his spine in a severe car accident and was told he would never walk again. Four years later, after repeatedly choosing the comfort of his wheelchair over the painful process of walking, he removed the option entirely: he dismantled and destroyed his wheelchair and never sat in one again.
That decision became a framework for the rest of his life.
Joshua went on to co-found SilencerCo in 2008, entering a highly regulated and poorly understood market. Rather than avoiding those barriers, he leaned into them—educating consumers, helping build an industry advocacy organization, navigating regulatory complexity, and creating demand in a market where only a small percentage of potential customers even knew the product was legal. The company ultimately grew into an eight-figure business.
Adam and Joshua also dive into patents, competitive moats, constraints, asymmetric upside, failure, founder identity, and why blindly following "best practices" can prevent companies from discovering the right practices for their specific business.
The conversation culminates in Joshua's framework from his book Productive Difficulty: how to distinguish hard work that compounds from pointless suffering, deliberately choose problems your competitors won't solve, and build capabilities that continue paying dividends long after the initial work is complete.
Whether you're building a company, navigating adversity, or trying to develop greater resilience, this episode is a masterclass in choosing the hard things that actually matter. 
Key Takeaways
 How breaking his spine at 15 completely changed Joshua's relationship with adversity. 
 Why destroying his wheelchair became a defining moment in his life. 
 How deliberately removing the easy option can force growth. 
 Why perspective is one of the most powerful tools for navigating adversity. 
 How Joshua went from photography to founding SilencerCo. 
 Why difficult markets can create powerful barriers to competition. 
 How consumer education helped expand an almost nonexistent market. 
 Why growing the category and capturing market share can happen simultaneously. 
 How constraints force founders to find better solutions. 
 Why patents can sometimes become a crutch instead of a competitive advantage. 
 The difference between "best practices" and the right practices for your business. 
 Why the middle of the entrepreneurial journey is often more valuable than the outcome. 
 How founder identity can become dangerous when it becomes inseparable from the company. 
 Why founders should prioritize asymmetric opportunities: limited downside with compounding upside. 
 How to separate productive difficulty from pointless suffering. 
Chapters
00:00 From paralysis to productive difficulty
01:03 Joshua's early life in Utah
02:08 Breaking his spine at 15
04:45 Perspective, adversity, and "it could always be worse"
08:30 Learning to walk again
10:00 Destroying his wheelchair and removing the easy option
11:20 Perspective, constraints, and entrepreneurship
13:45 Creating his own first job
16:00 Building a photography business
18:00 Finding a bigger entrepreneurial opportunity
20:30 Building SilencerCo during the Great Recession
23:00 Why difficult businesses create competitive moats
25:30 Discovering the real customer problem
26:30 Educating an entire market
28:45 Changing regulations and expanding the industry
30:50 Growing the pie and capturing market share
32:00 Patents, IP, and when protection becomes a crutch
34:15 Best practices vs. right practices
37:15 Why asking "why?" is uncomfortable
38:30 Using discomfort to reset perspective
41:00 Why the journey matters more than the outcome
42:10 Losing the company and rebuilding identity
46:00 Productive Difficulty
47:00 The seven questions for choosing worthwhile hard problems
49:30 Productive difficulty vs. pointless suffering
51:15 Asymmetric upside and celebrating wins
52:50 Where to find Joshua and Productive Difficulty
Explore
Productive Difficulty / Hard Is Fun
https://hardisfun.com
Joshua Waldron
https://www.instagram.com/hardisfun/
Growth Mavericks Podcast
https://www.growthmaverickspodcast.com
Pentane
https://www.pentane.com

What happens when you spend nearly 20 years trying to solve a problem—only to realize you've been solving the wrong one?
In this episode of the Growth Mavericks Podcast, Adam Callinan sits down with Tim Vogel, founder and CEO of Scenthound, to unpack the two-decade entrepreneurial journey that eventually created an entirely new category in pet care and grew to 170 locations across the country.
Tim started with mobile dog grooming, only to discover that the economics, staffing, routing, and scalability of the model were far more difficult than expected. He moved into brick-and-mortar grooming and built his own pipeline for training groomers, but the breakthrough came when he realized something much bigger: all dogs need routine hygiene and wellness care, but most dogs don't actually need traditional grooming.
That insight became Scenthound, built around five core areas of routine dog care: Skin, Coat, Ears, Nails, and Teeth. Tim explains how they created demand for a category customers didn't know they needed, used education and membership to change customer behavior, and spent years proving the model before finally turning to franchising.
The conversation dives into product-market fit, category creation, franchising, entrepreneurship, resilience, the value of peer communities, and why the "overnight successes" we hear about are almost always years—or decades—in the making.
Whether you're trying to find product-market fit, create a new category, franchise a business, or simply stay in the game long enough for your breakthrough to arrive, Tim's story is a powerful lesson in persistence, iteration, and building around a mission bigger than money. 
Key Takeaways
 Why Scenthound was nearly 20 years in the making. 
 How Tim's corporate career taught him systems, operations, and scalability. 
 Why mobile dog grooming proved much harder to scale than expected. 
 How solving the staffing problem led Tim to build his own groomer pipeline. 
 The realization that all dogs need care, but most don't need haircuts. 
 How Scenthound created an entirely new category around routine dog hygiene. 
 Why category creation requires educating customers before selling them. 
 How membership created consistency and changed customer behavior. 
 Why Tim spent roughly 15 years validating the model before aggressively scaling it. 
 How Scenthound grew to 170 locations through franchising. 
 Why surrounding yourself with other entrepreneurs can dramatically increase resilience. 
 How Tim's motivation evolved from money and freedom to contribution and purpose. 
Chapters
00:00 The 20-year overnight success
01:03 Tim's entrepreneurial journey
02:20 Learning systems at Enterprise Rent-A-Car
03:50 From corporate structure to startup freedom
06:00 Watching Zipcar win through better positioning
08:45 Designing a new life around entrepreneurship
10:00 Why Tim entered the pet care industry
13:40 The problem with mobile dog grooming
17:45 Building a grooming school and talent pipeline
20:00 The insight that changed everything
22:00 Creating Scenthound and a new pet care category
23:20 Teaching customers about a product they didn't know they needed
25:45 Building a membership and health data feedback loop
26:00 Why Tim chose franchising
29:00 Opening the first franchise during COVID
32:45 The challenges of building a franchise system
34:50 Spending 15 years finding product-market fit
35:25 How Tim built entrepreneurial resilience
37:30 Moving from money to mission
39:00 Why play can outperform the grind
41:00 The fourth essential of dog care
42:30 Scaling Scenthound across America
Explore
Scenthound
https://www.scenthound.com
Tim Vogel
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-vogel/
Growth Mavericks Podcast
https://www.growthmaverickspodcast.com
Pentane
https://www.pentane.com

Growth Mavericks Podcast — Andrew Youderian, Founder of eCommerceFuel
Pentane link -> pentane.com/growth
What does it take to build a business that can run without you—and what will separate the winners from the losers as AI fundamentally changes e-commerce?
In this episode of the Growth Mavericks Podcast, Adam Callinan sits down with Andrew Youderian, founder of eCommerceFuel, to discuss entrepreneurship, community, risk, AI, and the changing economics of building a durable e-commerce brand.
Andrew shares his path from investment banking in Great Falls, Montana, to launching his first e-commerce businesses selling CB radios and trolling motors. Those early companies taught him how to operate online businesses from the ground up—and ultimately laid the foundation for eCommerceFuel, a community he has spent more than a decade building for seven- and eight-figure e-commerce founders.
Andrew explains why he spent an entire year building an audience before launching eCommerceFuel, how Shopify helped drive much of his early readership, and why building a great community requires patience, trust, and a willingness to invest in relationships long before you ask anything from them.
The conversation then turns to a different kind of entrepreneurial success: freedom.
After years of planning, Andrew stepped largely away from eCommerceFuel for more than a year to travel with his wife and three children through Asia, Europe, Montana, and Arizona. At times, he worked only around 10% of his normal schedule. He shares the systems and hires required to make that possible, the critical hiring mistake he made immediately before leaving, and why trusted references and real-world character can matter more than hundreds of applications and dozens of hours of interviews.
Adam and Andrew also dig into one of the biggest questions facing entrepreneurs today: what happens when AI can perform an increasing percentage of the work required to operate a company?
Andrew explains why he believes AI could make great physical-product businesses more valuable, but argues that simply selling a physical product isn't enough of a moat. As execution becomes increasingly automated, product quality, storytelling, passion, trust, personal brands, and authentic human connection become even more important.
The result is what Andrew calls the rise of the “small durable brand”—a company built not on cheap acquisition hacks or endless paid advertising, but on exceptional products, genuine customer relationships, founder authenticity, and years of compounding trust.
Whether you're building an e-commerce brand, trying to remove yourself as the bottleneck in your company, experimenting with AI, or simply trying to create a business that gives you more freedom, this episode is a wide-ranging conversation about what entrepreneurship looks like when you optimize for durability instead of just growth.
Key Takeaways
How Andrew went from investment banking to entrepreneurship.
Why having something you're desperate to escape can be a powerful entrepreneurial motivator.
Starting e-commerce businesses selling CB radios and trolling motors without any previous expertise in either category.
What building an e-commerce company looked like before Shopify and modern no-code tools.
Why being capable of doing everything yourself can eventually become a liability.
The importance of learning a function before having the discipline to hand it off.
How Andrew spent a full year building an audience before launching eCommerceFuel.
Why community building starts with relationships and social capital rather than scale.
What Andrew would do differently if he were starting eCommerceFuel again today.
How he structured eCommerceFuel so he could largely step away for more than a year.
The hiring mistake Andrew made immediately before leaving on his family gap year.
Why a rigorous interview process still can't tell you exactly how someone will perform once they're in the job.
Using trusted networks and references to evaluate character, work ethic, and attention to detail.
Why Andrew took his family around the world while his kids were still young.
The value of experiential education and teaching children through travel.
Why constraints can dramatically improve how entrepreneurs use their time.
How Andrew thinks about maintaining physical and mental performance outside of work.
Whether AI will make e-commerce businesses more or less valuable.
Why physical products alone aren't necessarily protected from AI disruption.
How AI is already changing creative, copywriting, marketing, and operations.
Why passion may be becoming an entrepreneurial advantage instead of a liability.
The growing importance of storytelling, trust, and founder-led personal brands.
Why Andrew believes the future belongs to “small durable brands.”
How the cheap Facebook and Google advertising era distorted the way companies were built.
Why slower, harder-to-build businesses may ultimately be much more durable.
Why Andrew remains bullish on the future of e-commerce.
Chapters
00:00 Hunting, Montana, and an unfortunate rifle-scope lesson
06:58 Finding an inflection point in marketing
09:17 Andrew's ability to build community
10:40 Where his instinct for community came from
13:23 From Montana State to investment banking
14:39 Why Andrew walked away from finance
16:10 Running away from something as entrepreneurial fuel
17:44 Why going all-in creates powerful constraints
19:19 Andrew's first e-commerce businesses
20:27 Building online stores before modern e-commerce platforms
21:20 The danger of doing everything yourself
23:23 Learn it, then hand it off
23:51 How eCommerceFuel began
25:29 Building an audience for a year before launching
25:51 What Andrew would do differently today
27:21 Taking more than a year away from the business
28:31 Building a company that could operate without him
29:34 The hiring mistake before his gap year
31:50 The “secret interview” that led to a better hire
32:43 Taking the family around the world
34:33 What happens to productivity when you barely work
36:48 World schooling and experiential education
40:16 Life outside entrepreneurship
40:48 Why you can only coast downhill
44:01 Does AI make e-commerce more valuable?
45:48 Physical products as a defense against AI
48:59 What happens when AI runs 80% of a company?
52:15 What separates the winners and losers
52:36 Passion, storytelling, and personal brands
55:24 The rise of “small durable brands”
57:04 Why some founders may have actually dodged a bullet
58:15 Why Andrew remains bullish on e-commerce
59:06 Where to find Andrew and eCommerceFuel
Explore
eCommerceFuel
https://www.ecommercefuel.com/
eCommerceFuel Podcast
https://www.ecommercefuel.com/podcast/
Growth Mavericks Podcast
https://www.growthmaverickspodcast.com/
Pentane
https://www.pentane.com/

Growth Mavericks Podcast — Russell Breuer, Founder of Spot & Tango
What does it take to go from cooking dog food in a 700-square-foot apartment to building a nine-figure business—and survive the chaos that comes with growing that fast?
In this re-release of the Growth Mavericks Podcast, Adam Callinan sits down with Russell Breuer, founder of Spot & Tango, to discuss the realities of building and scaling one of the fastest-growing direct-to-consumer pet health companies in the country.
Russell shares how Spot & Tango began as a side hustle while he was still working full-time in private equity. He and his wife cooked and packaged the first orders themselves, found their first customer literally next door, and eventually moved production into a commercial kitchen as demand grew. Behind the early traction, however, were 4 a.m. mornings, nights and weekends, losing money, and the relentless persistence Russell describes as “eating glass every day.”
The conversation then turns to the moment everything changed. After launching UnKibble in 2020, an order Russell expected to last three or four months sold out in just four days. Spot & Tango went from roughly $1 million to $40 million in a matter of months, forcing the team to solve an entirely new problem: how do you operationalize explosive growth without breaking the company?
Russell explains why the company eventually made the contrarian decision to bring manufacturing in-house, investing in its own factory and roughly $30 million of capital equipment. The move was enormously difficult, but it ultimately transformed the economics of the business, expanded contribution margin by more than 30 points, and helped propel Spot & Tango into nine-figure revenue.
Beyond the numbers, Russell and Adam dig into the emotional reality of entrepreneurship: operating in constant ambiguity, dealing with failure nobody sees, knowing when to take risk, protecting your physical and mental performance, and building a community of founders you can turn to when you don’t have the answer.
Whether you’re trying to find product-market fit, navigating hypergrowth, improving the economics of an existing company, or simply figuring out how to keep going when entrepreneurship feels like eating glass, this episode delivers practical lessons on risk, resilience, operations, profitability, and building through uncertainty.
Key Takeaways
How Russell and his wife started Spot & Tango from a 700-square-foot NYC apartment.
Why Spot & Tango’s first customer was literally the neighbor next door.
What the “eating glass” phase of entrepreneurship actually looks like.
Going from side hustle to a $1 million revenue run rate within a year of Russell going full-time.
How customer feedback led to the creation of UnKibble.
What happened when three to four months of inventory sold out in four days.
How Spot & Tango went from roughly $1 million to $40 million in a matter of months.
Why hypergrowth creates enormous operational problems behind the exciting headlines.
The decision to stop relying on co-manufacturers and build a dedicated factory.
How vertical integration helped unlock more than 30 points of contribution margin.
Why contribution margin, CAC, LTV, and payback periods are critical to sustainable DTC growth.
The danger of pursuing revenue without understanding whether the business actually makes money.
Why founders need to become comfortable operating in ambiguity.
How fitness, sleep, family, and time outside help Russell handle the pressure of entrepreneurship.
Why a trusted community of founders can dramatically accelerate learning.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
02:01 Russell’s background: Cleveland, London, private equity, and New York
04:19 Where the idea for Spot & Tango came from
06:50 Building the business in a 700-square-foot apartment
07:17 Finding the first customer next door
08:21 Why entrepreneurship is like “eating glass”
09:30 The emotional reality of operating in ambiguity
12:12 Why extraordinary outcomes require risk
13:11 Moving production into a commercial kitchen
16:00 The “dark times” of building a side hustle
16:55 Quitting private equity and going all-in
18:19 Reaching a $1 million revenue run rate
19:25 The problem that led to UnKibble
20:47 Selling out in four days
21:05 Going from $1M to $40M in months
21:25 The operational chaos of hypergrowth
22:09 Deciding to build a factory
23:57 Manufacturing as a competitive moat
25:05 Letting customer feedback drive product development
27:15 Raising capital to support growth
28:15 Unlocking 30+ points of contribution margin
29:41 Gross margin vs. contribution margin
30:45 Measuring marketing through CAC, LTV, and payback
33:10 Retention and customer service
33:38 The problem with “growth at all costs”
34:39 Building the mental fortitude to keep going
35:24 Community, family, fitness, and managing pressure
37:12 The failures behind every successful company
37:42 Building a team and learning from other founders
39:18 Why founder-to-founder conversations matter
40:10 How Russell built his founder community
40:55 Where to find Russell and Spot & Tango
Explore
Spot & Tango
https://spotandtango.com
Growth Mavericks Podcast
https://www.growthmaverickspodcast.com/
Pentane
https://www.pentane.com/