Latter Day Struggles

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We've heard it a thousand times...and probably have said it a few times ourselves.  "The ________will never change."  You fill in the blank..."The world will never change" or "the church will never change"...and yet they do.  
How does evolution actually happen?  This "bonus episode" is a download that Val had over the weekend after asking herself why she was doing this platform.  The answer to her question is what you will hear in this episode.  In short, the only way anything ever changes is when a small group of people gather and use their synergy to productively heal themselves and thoughtfully agitate for change in their worlds.  Its how it has always been and always will be.  
Listen in and decide if you are someone who wants to be a part of the change that is already underway in our world right now.  
"We Shall Be Known" by MaMuse
Timestamps:
00:00 Bonus Episode Check In
00:32 Existential Questions
02:01 Live Fellowship Vision
03:56 Awakening Or Breakdown
05:54 Labor Pains of New Consciousness
07:05 Thesis Antithesis Synthesis
09:51 Seekers As Change Agents
11:19 Why Side Communities Matter
12:48 Community for Healing and Growth
14:53 Early Church Example
20:02 Feminine Divine and Equality
21:35 Institutions Retrench
26:08 Laboratories of Expanding Consciousness
30:07 Transformation In Groups
34:51 Who This Is For
36:16 Needs The Fellowship Meets
42:45 How Live Fellowship Works
48:40 Founding Group Details
53:36 Song And Great Turning
58:07 Enrollment And Scholarships
01:00:14 Closing Thanks

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In this episode Val is joined by Jana Riess, author and researcher of the LDS spectrum of experience and Jason Bergman, former BYU professor & faculty member.  Together they discuss the many facets of the Clark Gilbert call to the Q12 of the LDS church.   

In this conversation Jason contrasts his experience on the BYU faculty both before and during Gilbert's leadership and candidly shares the painful and life altering impact Gilbert's fervor for loyalty and conformity of LDS orthodoxy had on him and his career.  
They also explore the possibility that well-intended loyalty to tradition can actually fracture lives, families, and even the potential good that churches can do in the long run--especially when loyalty to old ways end up getting in the way of further light and truth hiding in plain sight.  

Join them for another bold, courageous, and candid conversation inviting spiritual growth in and around the LDS church.  
Jana's Salt Lake Tribune Article
Timestamps:
00:00 Welcome and Guests
00:36 Why This Topic Matters
01:55 Jana Riess Research
03:42 Jason BYU Background
07:20 Mixed Reactions Online
12:11 Why Gilbert Stands Out
17:27 Culture Warrior Defined
27:12 Polarization and Autonomy
35:53 BYU Orthodoxy Crackdown
40:43 Honor Code Turmoil Timeline
43:58 Choosing to Leave BYU
44:56 Faculty Fear and Silence
47:15 Big Tent Tensions
49:14 Incognito Faculty Support
52:41 Loyalty Oath Explained
58:33 Surveillance and Dismissals
01:00:35 Hiring and Worthiness Filters
01:02:52 Growth Versus Orthodoxy
01:07:31 Data on Same Sex Marriage
01:10:02 What BYU Lost
01:17:44 Evolution One Funeral
01:20:46 Gerontocracy and Mini Me
01:22:07 Final Thanks and Farewell
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Join us for this one-time-only recording of our FIRST Latter Day Struggles "Live Fellowship"!  

What is this, you ask?  Valerie has decided to offer a gathering place for those on the LDS and surrounding faith expansion journey wanting consistent (2x/month!) connection with her to go deeper into the mind & heart expanding content on both the Monday and Friday tracks of the Latter Day Struggles podcast.  
In this opening gathering, Valerie explored with those in attendance how both The Family Proclamation to the World and the call of Clark Gilbert to the Q12 are reflections of a historical moment and a choice point that all organizations confront as they grow.  The question? 
  Do we adapt to a more connected and pluralistic world that is experiencing an awakening of light and truth? Or do we double down in fear-based conformity? 
This amazing interactive Fellowship Live episode gives you a taste of how your faith journey can move beyond a passive listening experience and towards active healing and connection with other seekers like yourself.   

Jump in now and you can become a founding shaper of the first cohesive and intentional community of individuals whose LDS faith journey was an entry point into their greatest spiritual growth and evolution.  
If you listened and this is for you, jump into the Latter Day Struggles LIVE FELLOWSHIP by clicking on the link below and enroll.  

Timestamps:
00:00 Welcome: Why Seeing Faces Matters 
00:51 Building a Faith-Expansion Community 
02:33 What a "Sangha" Is 
04:14 How the Fellowship Works 
05:23 What This Space Is (and Isn't) 
07:43 Ground Rules: Staying with Growth 
09:28 Why Context Heals 
10:48 The Family Proclamation & Clark Gilbert 
13:57 America and the LDS Church as Parallel Institutions 
15:52 Master Narratives & Threatened Identity 
19:38 Retrench or Adapt: The Choice Point 
27:00 Discussion: Authoritarian Systems vs. Healthy Communities 
32:54 Pocket Communities Over Polarization 
34:08 Seeing the System with Compassion 
37:50 Why Narrative Change Feels Threatening 
40:00 High-Level Language vs. Real-Life Details 
42:42 Moving Beyond Fixed Rules 
46:45 Transcend & Include 
51:37 Rethinking Prophecy 
56:13 Our Role in the Larger Awakening 
01:00:16 Closing: Breakout Groups & What's Next
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Series Title: What does the Family Proclamation Mean to You? [Episode II of II]

This episode of Latter Day Struggles continues a two-part conversation about the LDS Church's Proclamation on the Family, examining the tension between claims of unchanging doctrine and the historical reality of doctrinal evolution.

Petrey demonstrates through historical analysis that LDS teachings on gender, sexuality, marriage, and family have repeatedly changed over time—from positions on interracial marriage and the priesthood ban, to birth control prohibitions, plural marriage, conversion therapy for LGBTQ individuals, and women wearing pants. 
The conversation highlights how church leaders have consistently taught that their current positions were "unchanging doctrine" until those positions eventually changed, creating a pattern that contradicts claims of doctrinal fixity. Petrey offers a constructive framework for understanding doctrine as historically contingent and evolving—consistent with the LDS concept of continuing revelation—rather than eternally fixed. 
The Family Proclamation
Op Ed by Taylor Petrey
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction and Welcome 
00:19 - Overview of the Proclamation to the Family 
01:19 - Recap: Last Week's Discussion 
01:31 - Defining Doctrine and Authority 
02:08 - What Does 'Doctrine' Mean to Members? 
03:48 - The Salvational Weight of Doctrine 
05:31 - Elder Rasband's Talk and Proclamation Analysis 
09:40 - Historical Changes in LDS Doctrine 
11:41 - Race, Interracial Marriage, and Doctrinal Change 
13:14 - Birth Control and Plural Marriage 
15:11 - History vs. Faith-Promoting Narratives 
17:34 - Redefining Doctrine: Making Space for Change 
20:06 - Conversion Therapy and Evolving LGBTQ Positions 
22:31 - Holding Contradictory Positions Simultaneously 
25:31 - Challenges of Authoritarianism in the Church 
28:09 - Religious Authority Across Denominations 
32:33 - Who Defines History vs. Who Defines Doctrine? 
34:22 - Doctrine as Continuing Revelation 
35:15 - Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions
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Series Title:  What does the Family Proclamation Mean to You? [Episode I of II]

Welcome to this two-part series where Valerie welcomes returned guest scholar Taylor Petrey to discuss the LDS Church's Family Proclamation to the World as it reaches its 30th anniversary.
The heart of the episode centers on Taylor's controversial Salt Lake Tribune opinion piece in September 2025 (linked below) arguing that The Family Proclamation should be understood as commentary rather than revelation or unchanging doctrine. This characterization sparked significant pushback from conservative church members who insisted the document represents eternal, unchanging truth. 
Taylor and Valerie explore the complex and often inconsistent ways that the LDS Church uses terms like doctrine, revelation, policy, and commentary, noting how these categories shift depending on context and speaker. They discuss how the proclamation itself has been reinterpreted over time and set you up for the second part of their conversation where they dive deeply into the changing interpretations themselves. 

The Family Proclamation
Op Ed by Taylor Petrey

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:11 Discussing the Family Proclamation
01:48 Cultural and Political Context
04:20 Historical Background of Family Proclamations
07:04 The 1995 Proclamation and Its Impact
13:21 Opinion Piece and Public Reaction
24:43 Controversy and Clarifications
27:57 Historical Changes in Church Teachings
28:33 Modern Reinterpretations of Doctrine
30:42 Balancing Eternal Truths and Continuing Revelation
32:58 The Controversy of Words and Authority
36:15 Revelation vs. Policy: A Case Study
38:10 The Fluidity of Revelation
43:45 The Role of Commentary in Church Doctrine
48:20 Setting Up for the Next Episode
51:36 Final Thoughts and Conclusion
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