Legal Spirits 071: Jefferson, Wine, and the Wall of Separation
Thomas Jefferson’s 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists—better known for its reference to a “wall of separation” between church and state—was little remembered until Chief Justice Morrison Waite revived it in Reynolds v. United States (1879). With the help of historian George Bancroft, Waite transformed Jefferson’s passing metaphor into a constitutional principle, despite Jefferson’s limited role in drafting the First Amendment. In this episode of Legal Spirits, historians Don and Lisa Drakeman join Center Director Mark Movsesian to explore how Jefferson’s words, and even his passion for French wine, helped shape the Court’s Religion Clause jurisprudence—and to consider what lessons today’s Justices should draw about the risks of using history in constitutional interpretation. Listen in!
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Legal Spirits 070: Religion & Realism: The New US Role in Armenia
Map: The Conversation
In Episode 70 of Legal Spirits, Center Director Mark Movsesian speaks with Dan Harre, Deputy Director of Save Armenia, about a significant—and controversial—draft agreement between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Brokered last month at the White House, the terms reflect a major realignment in the region: Armenia relinquishes any claim to Nagorno Karabakh, Azerbaijan backs off earlier demands for extraterritorial control, and the United States gains a 99-year lease on a key new transit route.
The episode explores how U.S. foreign policy, Christian advocacy, and strategic infrastructure intersect in the South Caucasus. Dan offers a perspective from within the U.S. advocacy world—one shaped by a broader movement to defend Christian communities in places like Iraq and Syria. The episode also considers how groups like Save Armenia navigate diplomatic tensions between Armenia and Israel, and how this moment relates to past decisions about American involvement in Armenian affairs, including the post-WWI mandate the U.S. ultimately declined.
What role did American Christian organizations play in this deal? What’s in it for the United States? And is this a turning point in Armenia’s future? Listen in!
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Legal Spirits 069: The Consent of the Governed
Source: National Archives
In this episode of Legal Spirits, Center Director Mark Movsesian talks with legal scholar Steven D. Smith about a question that goes to the heart of American law and politics: What happens when people stop believing in “the consent of the governed”? Drawing on Smith’s new paper, The Collapse of Consent, they explore how this once-powerful idea has shifted over time—from a principle rooted in natural law and divine authority to a secular fiction that’s becoming harder to sustain. In an increasingly polarized society, can America’s founding narrative still hold us together? A deep and thought-provoking conversation about legitimacy, identity, and the future of our legal order.
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Legal Spirits 068: Religion at the Court: October Term 2024 Recap
In this episode of Legal Spirits, we review the Supreme Court’s major religion cases from the October 2024 Term. From religious charter schools to religious exemptions to parental rights in public education, the Court addressed long-standing issues—and, in one case, made a dramatic move. Join Center Director Mark Movsesian and guest John McGinnis as they unpack the implications of Drummond, Catholic Charities Bureau, and Mahmoud v. Taylor.
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Legal Spirits 067: Confession and the Constitution
Washington State Gov. Bob Ferguson at the Signing Ceremony for the New Clergy Reporting Law
In this episode of Legal Spirits, we examine a new Washington State law that eliminates the clergy-penitent privilege in child abuse reporting. The law requires clergy to report suspected abuse, even if they learn about it through Confession and other confidential spiritual communications—raising serious questions under the Free Exercise Clause. Host Mark Movsesian and guest Marc DeGirolami discuss the legal framework, historical background, and broader implications for religious liberty. Listen in!
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