The Art of Living Big | Subconscious | NLP | Mindset

This week’s episode is a little update on Betsy’s dating endeavors and a reminder to us all not to overthink things. Live in the present and focus on good things. We don’t always have to look for the potential of something, we can simply feel the enjoyment in present moments. A message with perfect timing as Betsy departs for the very first Live Big retreat in Belize!

Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy Pake, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

 Hello, everyone. Hi, welcome to the show today. I am getting ready to leave for our trip to Belize. I just dropped Dean Martin off at kitty camp, and he was so, he was so unhappy. He made a little sound I’ve never heard before when I put him in his carrier. Poor little guy. He’ll be okay, but it’s the longest he’s ever been at kitty camp, and he likes Camp Kitty, I think it’s called.

I think he likes it, but it is painful, right? To be without our babies So I wanna say that Joy and I recorded a really, a pretty long episode earlier in the week, and– or it was, like, the end of last week we recorded. And, you know, I had this whole plan. I was gonna,, explain the metamorphosis that had happened in my life over the past eight weeks.

And then, you know, we recorded, and then I went in to, , listen to a couple parts and, , make some edits that I wanted to make sure were made before, you know, Joy went in to produce the episode. And I just was like… First of all, it was kinda hard– We were just talking back and forth, and I had no idea how many times I said “like” until I listened to that episode.

It was hard to follow, honestly. And then, you know, I, I get that sometimes it can be fun, you like to hear other people’s stories, but, , it’s gotta matter to you, and I just was like, “What’s the purpose in this for anybody else?” , At the end of the day, it felt kinda self-serving to talk for 45 minutes about whatever, whatever I went through.

So I thought, let me give you, , the really brief, short, long and short of it, as they say, and kinda give you the rundown, and then get to the point, ’cause there is a point. There’s something that I do wanna say, and I think it’s– I’m still thinking through it, but I think it’s kinda like a magical thought.

So, so let’s just say here, let, let us begin here. The last six to eight weeks, I think, I have felt like I was really passing through something. You know, I think my transformation, this particular one that has just been closed, I think this loop opened in 2020. I really do. It’s– In 2020, when I was really– Towards the end of 2020, when I was like, uh, I had been wanting to leave my marriage for, I mean, since the week after we got married, and I was finally like, “I think I’m gonna figure this out.”

Like, “I’ve got to figure this out.” And that sort of opened this portal. Now, , as you know, I left, I came back, we tried to work things out. I left again, and I’ve been gone, and I’m, been divorced, and I’ve lived in my apartment now for, you know, almost a couple years. So the, so, uh, you know, you would think, well, that whole chapter is closed, but no.

But no. It, I feel like- There had been so much growing and healing over the past couple years, shifting who I am internally, and I think that this kind of finalized, like the final push through the birth canal, when I went to Florida. So you guys have heard me talk about this trip. I’m not gonna go into this trip anymore.

But, you know, I went to Florida. I came back, there was a lot of grief ’cause I was like, “I don’t know where I’m supposed to be, what I’m supposed to do.” Then a few weeks later, I went to Vermont. That was a really hard trip for me, and I knew that I had healed so many things because I could see the patterns., I could see in my family of origin how they operated and why I chose the things that I did, and why I lived the way that I lived for so long, and why my marriage, components of it that were obviously not healthy, felt kind of okay to me. And when I was with my family, I was like, “Oh, this is why.” And that was a really hard thing.

And again, grief, because I came back and I was like, “Oh my gosh, it’s not what I thought. It’s what I s- just saw.” And I think that in all of that, you know, the way that I communicate with, with all of you through the podcast or through Instagram is very real and comes from a place where I’m very authentic, I think that would be the word to use But I was shaky ground, so I didn’t know how to show up, and so I sort of withdrew.

It’s not that I don’t know who I am or I… It was just like something had shifted, and I didn’t quite understand what that was yet. So this is where we are. So here’s the thing that I want to really talk about, which is that I went on the dating apps and because I know so many of you wanna know the deets on that, so let me kind of…

I wanna tell you that if you listen to the birthday episode, we talked about how I went on the dating apps, maybe, maybe it was like March or something, and I, I was like, “Ew, no.” I was on them for like 24 hours. I asked for a refund. And so it just– I wasn’t there yet. Then I went through this whole metamorphosis, and I was like, “You know what?

I’m, I, I have a really nice life. I feel really good about where I am. I’m really happy. I, I know who I am. I have things to share. It would be fun to have somebody that I could do fun things with, like to share my life and to see what their life was like.” Like that all started to sound fun to me. And so one night, I, I didn’t tell anybody, and I just was like, “I’m gonna do this,” and I did it very intentionally.

I went on Hinge. I also went on Bumble because one of my girlfriends was like, “Oh, I loved Bumble.” But Bumble, you have to make the first move. Like that’s the thing is that women make the first move, and I can see how that could be really appealing, but that’s not what I wanted. Like I have spent a lifetime over-capacitating with men.

I have spent a lifetime being the one, like to reach out and to do the things and to blah, blah, blah. And I don’t wanna do that anymore. Like I just don’t wanna be that, and I just thought if I start that way, like that’s sort of how it goes. I remember years ago, my former husband said to me, I was doing something in the kitchen, and he said, “It’s about time you start acting like a wife.”

And I lost my ever-loving mind because I was like, “If I could have a husband, I wouldn’t have to act like the husband. I could act like the wife. But since I have to be the husband, I, you know, I’m not spending a lot of time in the kitchen.” So- When I’m looking at these apps, I’m like, “How do I want this to go, and what is it that I’m– that I want right now?”

And I really wanted somebody to reach out to me. So, so I got on Hinge, and I did my profile pretty thoughtfully, I think. I tried to give information about myself instead of being vague. You know, some people will put like, “Dating me is like going to get coffee. Something that makes me happy is good coffee.”

And I, you know, I really wanted to be intentional and put the energy out there that was right. And so, you know, to make that long story short, I, I met several people. I went out for drinks one night with somebody that was really nice. Not my guy, but like super nice. I met really nice people, and I think that sort of surprised me in a way, and might be my age.

You know? If I– maybe if I was dating like a 30-year-old or a 40-year-old, which I just… I think I put my limit, like my age limit, and you can do it like so it’s a hard stop at like… Maybe I put even like 51. Like I was not into dating younger people. Uh, I think my age limit up was much higher. I think it was like maybe 69 or something.

I went to a bar that’s here by my house at the Four Seasons that I like. So, so I’m gonna get to this. So they said, “Where do you wanna meet?” Okay? I had a lunch date and they said, “Where do you wanna meet?” And then I had a– met for drinks someplace else. “Where should we meet?” I don’t understand… And again, here I am, so I’m like, “Okay, I– you asked me, so I don’t know what you want.

Like, I don’t know what your budget is. I don’t know where you wanna bring me. I don’t know what you’re thinking. You’re, you’re the one that invited me.” So I h- I had a brain cramp around that every single guy. And I thought, “You know what? Maybe it’s really hard right now to be a guy and to be like, ‘I, uh, I wanna give her a choice.'”

But what would’ve been great, I think, is if somebody had said, “Great,” like, “Eight o’clock Saturday,” or seven… Eight o’clock. Come on, we all know I’m in bed by eight o’clock. Like, 4:30. “4:30 Saturday. Would you like to meet me here or here?” Like, that would’ve been great, you know? I, I just– I didn’t wanna be picking.

Um, and then with some people it was like, “What about this? What about that?” “Okay, well, that doesn’t work. What about th-” I just was like, “Can you please make a decision?” So, so I’m just observing, you know? I’m just noticing. But I met really nice people, and I had a nice time. There wasn’t anybody that was, like, a real, , love connection, I think, for those first,, four or five dates.

A couple people asked me out on a second date. I found it very interesting the things that people shared with me. I had really good conversations with everybody. , I talked with just about everybody for, , a couple hours, and, uh, and they asked questions of me, too. It wasn’t just me holding the conversation.

So that felt good. And it was interesting to me, , what people wanted to share. , I, I think, you know- One person told me what their salary was or how much money they made. They owned their own business. Um, and I thought that was just, , an interesting thing to tell me. It, it was a lot, and I think that was, like, they were basically telling me that’s what they were– had to offer, which I get that.

You, you have… Like, there’s no, I, like, I’m totally fine with that. Like, you, you might offer humor, you might offer resources, you might offer, you know what I mean? Look, whatever it is. But that wasn’t as important to me because of where I am in my life, I think. It’s not unimportant. I want somebody that can do the same kinds of things that I can do, but I d- you know, you, how many millions you make a year isn’t as important to me.

, But I’m happy you’re successful, and that’s great. So, so that was an interesting thing. , I had somebody ask me if I was a gold digger, which no man with money will ever ask you if you’re a gold digger, by the way. They see it as something they have to offer. So I was just observing, you know? I was just observing.

So here’s the thing, and here’s where I kinda landed with this, and this is sort of what the, the message I think that I wanted to share with that, is that in all of that, what I realized was that I didn’t have some end game. You know, if I had been 25 and some guy told me he made $13 million a year, I might’ve been like, “That, I could have a, a totally different life than I had growing up.”

, That would be a different life, right? And I, I’m not looking to get married. , I will never get married again. There will never be a universe where I get the government involved in my relationship ever again. Now, I’m not, also not looking to live with somebody. That’s just not where I am.

Would I ever live with somebody? Maybe. , I see, like, Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell, maybe that could be… But again, and, and as I’ve said in many, many other podcasts, if you ever find out that I am dating somebody, that I’m like, “This is, this is the, my guy,” they are a freaking unicorn. And if I ever decide to live with somebody, that’s like a super unicorn, right?

That’s like a, this– That man will be, have been therapitized for decades, you know? A feminist, liberal, like, I mean, all the things, right? So, with all that said, I, I’m not thinking that’s what I’m gonna find. What I’m looking for, the end game, is actually right now. The– I’m not looking for a husband. I’m not looking for a role to fill.

I’m actually looking, is there joy and fun right now? , That’s the metric. And this might seem, , super obvious, but that wasn’t how I ever operated before. And so- I think that if I had, then I probably would have had a better experience in relationships. I have historically spent a lot of time on potential.

Maybe you’re there with me. But there’s no more, like, do the, does he have potential? I don’t care about potential ’cause I’m too old for that. You have to show me what you got right now. And if right now is fun, if right now feels like I’m having a good time, if right now is adding to my life, that’s it.

That’s the end game. I’m here. I’ve arrived. It’s al- it’s already here. And it changes, takes the pressure off it in a lot of ways. Now, I learned a lot about myself over the past three weeks because I noticed that there were times where I was over-capacitating, where I thought– Where I was starting, not where I thought, ’cause there was no thinking.

But where I noticed I was leaning forward, like I was trying to drive the way things were going. And it took me, , about a week probably of, of talking with one person in particular where I was like, “Oh, I can see that I’m doing that. Where, where is that coming from?” And I did some work on it. , I was like, “What is that?”

Because that’s not– I don’t wanna replay stuff. And I know that I’ve healed it because I noticed it, right? I noticed it really pretty quickly, and then I was able to shift. Now, I got really, really lucky because the person that I was talking to was unfazed by that. They just stayed really steady in their lane and didn’t, wasn’t influenced by that, which was a relief, and made me realize that I don’t have to over-capacitate.

I can just be, and I can just, m- like, be in the right now, and is the right now good and joyful and happy, and yes. And so that’s all I need to know. So there, I’m already there. Done. So, , that made it so much easier. So that is my update, and that’s a little thought of, , if there was no end game, would you like the way your life was right now?

Would you choose it? Would this be something that you would be like, “That’s a match, and I’m gonna stay in that”? Whether it’s your job or your friendships or your romantic relationship or any of that stuff. Is it a match? All right. That is the update for this week. I hope you guys have a great week. I will, I will see you next week.

We’ll have a Belize update when I get back next week. So thanks so much for being here. I love you guys so much. I’ll see you then.

 Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.

In this episode, Betsy asks, are you feeling resentful? Are you feeling angry? Are you feeling invisible? She advises that the first place to look, is not him. The first place to look is where you’ve centered him and where you’ve disappeared. In the Navigate Method Betsy says, you can’t make a clear decision about your marriage from a place where you’ve already abandoned yourself. So listen in and learn how you can learn to live big!

Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy Pake, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show today. This week, you’re getting this episode this week. I know on the, on Instagram, if you follow on Instagram, I was going to answer a bunch of questions, and that episode will be next week. Next week I’ll be in Belize for the retreat, and that’s the episode that will drop on Thursday.

So look out for that. Joy and I just had… We had issues scheduling. It became like a chasing each other all day, and so I thought, “You know what? I, I have another thought,” something that we talked about in group. So I wanna get to this. Okay. So there’s this moment, I think, when we stop orbiting somebody else.

I’m gonna explain what I mean here. But it’s, it’s when you stop, , checking their mood before you make a decision, or when you stop thinking about how they’re gonna perceive you before you get dressed. Does anybody else… Am I the only one that does this? Or if you cook. You know, you’re cooking dinner, and you’re like, “Uh, are they gonna like this?”

I know that some of this stuff might sound like courtesy, but I wanna… Just hang with me here, because I wanna, , uh, like sort of separate this out, because I think there is a moment that this awareness happens. If you leave your partner or you’ve made a big change with how you experience your partnership, I think that there is a moment where this orbiting becomes really disorienting, and so disorienting that you’re starting to recognize that there’s, , this piece of you inside here that is…

, you’re not even quite sure where she is. You, you have, like, pieces of her, but she is really contorting herself. You know what I think of, like, when I, when I think of this, is like, you know if you have a cat and then you have, like, a weird shaped item? And they get in the weird shaped item, and th- they’re still a cat, but they’re not really, like, cat shaped anymore.

I remember when I moved into my apartment a couple years ago, you know, after my divorce, and I’m, I’m here in my place, and I had this awareness that I didn’t check to see what somebody else was doing or wanted to do, or where I needed to be in the house, you know? I, I, I didn’t have to think about whether my dinner was gonna make the house smell like something he wouldn’t like, or I didn’t have to wonder…

I didn’t, I just didn’t have to think about anybody else. And even think about, when I put on an outfit, is this something that would be, I’m gonna say like acceptable, but hang with me as I think through this. Not like, it, not like I’m dressing like a, like a hoe, you know? But is this something that men would like?

I mean, I think we put it through a filter. You know, we talk about dressing for the male gaze or dressing for the female gaze. And there was this moment where I was in my apartment and I recognized that everything that I was doing was still orbiting other people who weren’t even there. They weren’t even in the house.

And honestly, it was weird. Because centering somebody else, even when you don’t like ’em, even when you’re tired from it, but it’s a habit. It is like a groove that you’ve worn into yourself. And I think when you stop, there is a place where that person used to be, and you have to figure out who you are when you’re not constantly thinking about somebody else.

So I wanna talk about this, and I wanna talk about it in the frame of something that has come up over and over again in our groups. And it’s really about this centering and how we center other people. It could be anybody. It could be how we center our kids’ school or school activities or everything about our lives.

And I wanna talk about why that matters so much inside a partnership. So let me back up just a little bit. I wanna name, , what I mean by, , centering. So to me, centering someone m- else means that their perspective, you know, their, their needs, maybe their mood or their comfort, becomes sort of this, like, organizing principle of your day.

So it becomes the thing that you are making little, little and big decisions around. And I don’t think it’s conscious necessarily. I think it’s usually really automatic. , You wake up, and you’re already scanning maybe for his mood or for who needs what or for what you need to do to make the day m- run smoothly for everybody else, and you’re calculating.

Like, is it a good time to say something? You know, you’re running through what you’re gonna make for dinner and whether he’ll like it, and you’re dressing for somebody else or for what you think everybody else would like or what’s popular or trending or whatever. And you’re realizing that you are making yourself smaller so that everybody else can stay the same size or even grow or expand or become who they are meant to be.

And I think we’re taught that this is love. I think that we were taught that centering the people we love is what good women do I think my mother did it. You know, my mother centered the kids for sure. She centered me and my sister. She centered my dad, for sure. , My grandmother did it. I, I think we just see it everywhere.

, This idea that a, a woman, I’m gonna say a man, shapes herself around a man, but we really can shape ourselves around just about anything, you know? It’s, it’s really the version of us that makes it our job to keep the peace and to adjust. And I think we call it, , being a good partner or sacrifice or I’m devoted to this thing.

You know, we, we call it marriage. But, but I think it’s an element of self-abandonment. And I wanna say, you might be like, “I don’t mind doing that all the time.” Maybe sometimes, but then is it conscious? And if it’s unconscious, is it truly a choice or is it you disappearing? And I think it gets a little bit tricky because self-abandonment doesn’t feel like a bad thing when you’re doing it.

, It feels safe. It feels like you’re doing a good job, you know? It feels like you’re managing things or managing a situation or, or, or keeping it all together, you know? I remember that commercial, and I know I’ve mentioned it here before, but even as a kid, I was like, “This seems fucked up.” But it was like the, um, I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and never, ever let you forget you’re a man.

I’m like, look, you get, like, maybe two of those things out of three. Like, likely not. Pick one. I don’t know. But I think that there happens, , in, in our lives when we feel like what we’re doing is really being great, and marketing has taught us that, , our lives have taught us that. And then I think one day you realize that the reason you feel lonely in this partnership isn’t because you’re alone, but it’s because you lost yourself somewhere along the way, and maybe you realize that you’ve been gone for so long that you don’t actually know how to come back.

So something that comes up in our groups over and over, and a couple weeks ago we were all talking, and I had this, , moment, you know? , And when I say groups, inside the Navigate method, this is my program that helps women make the big decision on whether to stay or leave your, their marriage. You can find out more about that on our website, or you can book a call to talk to us at betsypake.com.

Okay. So- We were talking about it, and I had this thought. Now, this might be a thought y- that you’re gonna be like, “This is an obvious thought,” but the way it hit me was a little different. And I was like, men aren’t taught to de-center themselves. They are actually taught the opposite. They’re taught what we’re taught, which is to center them.

They’re taught that their perspective is the one that matters, that their needs are the most important, and that the world kind of revolves around them at, at least a, a little bit, you know? And I’m not saying all men are like this. I’m not, I’m not saying anything is absolute.

Humans are individuals, right? But I think this is a pattern, and I think when we’re socialized, and I think when we’re in the patriarchal system that we have all grown up with here, , I think it comes up, like constantly. And so you have a situation where she has disappeared, and he is centered. So she’s checking his mood.

He’s not checking hers. And she’s thinking about her, how her actions affect him, and he is really not thinking about how his actions affect her Or if he is, it, it doesn’t come off in the same way, right? , She’s making sure he’s okay, and he doesn’t think to ask.

And then she tries to communicate. She tries to say, “Hey, you know, this thing happened that hurt me. , This thing doesn’t feel good.” And he genuinely can’t see it from her perspective. It’s not because he’s a jerk. It’s not because he’s a terrible person. It’s because he is so centered in his own experience., His experience is the experience. His way of seeing things is the way. And so she’s trying to explain something from, , the outside looking in, and he’s looking from the inside looking out, and those are, like, two totally different vantage points, where you just don’t see the same horizon, you know?

And I think that’s when resentment gets built. It’s not necessarily from what he did or from the fact that he can’t see what he did or from the fact that she has to explain it or, or, even that when she does explain it, he might not understand, because he’s not built to think that way. You know, she’s exhausted, because now she’s also managing herself.

She’s also trying to translate her experience into some sort of version of language that he can understand. We talk about this all the time in group, like, what’s his reality? How can we get to the other vantage point so that you can explain and articulate yourself in a way that feels good, ?

That, honors where you are, but also he could, if he was reaching for it, could find you in that. And it’s really about, it’s n- uh, w- when we were talking in group, I was like, “You know, I, I don’t even know that it is about… It’s about communication, but it’s also about trying to get him to de-center for just long enough to see her- And most of the time, I, I don’t think men can do it, and it’s not because they don’t love us, it’s, it’s because they weren’t ever taught to or socialized to.

You know how… I remember when my son was little and we had this, , toy that was like a babbler. It would talk in, , different languages so that those patterns were formed in his head so if he wanted to, to learn another language later on, those neural pathways had been created, you know? Neural pathways get pruned, so it didn’t matter.

It didn’t matter. But that was the idea of it, right? And so it was the idea of if I could teach another way of seeing things, then seeing things another way could become easier Okay, so when I moved into my apartment, I’m there in my apartment. I have, uh, I have been, like, free of this dynamic where I have to center somebody else for the first time, , in decades.

In decades, right? ‘Cause I feel like I’ve lived with somebody or had a partner or whatever forever, or had a kid. You know what I mean? There’s always somebody. And so here I am, my kid’s an adult, lives on his own. I’m here in my apartment. I’m all moved in. My stuff is here. I have no pet. At that point, Dean Martin was not, had not moved in.

And Dean Martin’s the cat, for anybody new. So Dean Martin had not moved in, and so now here I am, and I am free from that dynamic for the first time in so long. And you would think that that would feel amazing, and I think it does, like, in moments. But mostly, it started to feel like I don’t know who I am.

And I do this work, but being alone shifted something, because I spent a long, long time centering somebody else, so long that I don’t actually know how to make a decision that’s just for me without even, thinking about them. Do you know what I mean? I wanted to not even be thinking about them.

And it, it took me a minute to realize, oh my God, why am I thinking about that? Like, why am I doing that same thing? And then I realized, I started thinking about, well, like, what about my son? I wonder what he’s doing for dinner. What is he w- like, j- same thing, but just with a different person. I think I started doing it a little bit with my friends.

I started just, , checking with people. , Before I know what I wanna do, I wanna see what everybody else is doing. And then I realized, like, this isn’t even about my former partner. It’s about me. It is about a pattern that is so deep in my bones that I am just gonna keep doing it until I consciously, repeatedly choose something different.

And so I had to start really asking myself a question. So instead of, like, what does everybody else need or what does everybody else want, I started asking, and I, I started asking this deliberately, even if I didn’t notice. Like when I put my outfit on, sometimes I would put it on, and then I’d be like, “Eh, I don’t know that…

Like, people are gonna think this looks dumb.” Again, centering other people, right? So I would ask, like, “Is this the choice that’s best for me? Like, is this something that makes me happy? Do I feel good about this?” And I know that sounds really simple, but when you’ve spent, , your whole life… And women, we are- We are, I wanna say created.

We’re not created to do that, but we are taught from, m- you know, taught from a very young age to do that. So when you’ve spent your whole life centering other people, asking yourself that question feels crazy. It feels really crazy. And I started doing it with like small things, but I wanted to make it like a repetition.

So like what do I want? I remember in my partnership if I made like eggs, my partner didn’t like that because he didn’t like how the egg smelled, and so there would be a lot of thoughts about that that were shared with me. And so I would think like, “I’m gonna make eggs. Is anybody coming over?” Nobody, nobody was coming over.

Like I had nobody to come over. But I, that’s what I would think. Instead of , “What do I feel like? Do I feel like eggs?” Or you know, whatever, whatever kind of eggs I wanted. Like is that what I want? Instead of , “Does this outfit feel good? Do I feel happy in this?” I would think “Oh, this makes me look like I have no waist.”

Who cares? Like who cares? And so I started noticing all the ways that I was centering people, and the ways that I was still performing a version of myself in certain situations. And I think it’s interesting because we think, and I often, and I’ve even said it on this podcast like years ago, like if there was just no people, I would be great.

But then I lived alone and there was no people, and it wasn’t great. It was, it was interesting. It was the way I was still afraid to say no. The way I was still checking with some outside source before I made a decision so I wouldn’t rock the boat. It was weird. Eight months. Eight months is how long it took me before I noticed that I wasn’t doing that, and it was like a moment where I was like, “Oh my God, I just made that choice and didn’t think anything of it.”

Eight months before I could make a decision just because it was good for me without feeling something about it. And, some days I still catch myself doing it. I talked with a girlfriend recently, and I said about how I was getting ready to go on a date. I know we’re gonna talk about that next week on the podcast.

I was getting ready to go on a date, and I put on an outfit, and then I thought, “This is not an…” I, I… It was twofold things that I thought. “This is not an outfit you wear on a date, and this makes me look gigantic,” because it was all, like, big, roomy, th- flowy dress, or whatever the heck it was. I don’t even remember.

And I got mad at myself because I was doing this scanning thing, and I was like, “God, I haven’t even been dating b-,” you know what I mean? “But a couple days and I’m already back to centering other people?” And I talked to a friend of mine, my friend Heather, and my friend Heather said, “It’s okay to center them sometimes.

, That can be a choice. It’s okay to dress for the male gaze sometime. It’s okay to dress for the female gaze sometime. It’s… Like, that might feel good to you.” And it was a w- odd permission that I think I needed. Being in this space of like, “Oh, hell no” for so long w- you know, in my own process, it, it was interesting to me because I feel like when I show up in, in coaching and group, I’m so open, like, what feels g- like, there is validity on both sides, but when it came to myself, it was interesting, you know?

So it’s okay sometimes, but we want to be conscious of it, right? So let me kinda map out… Let me do it this way. So I wanna map out sort of what, l- like, when you’ve been centering somebody else for years and years and years. Here’s what I think. Here’s, , the, , dynamic I think. I think first you sort of disappear.

You know? I think it… Well, I think it kind of happens. You disappear, right? A little less of your opinion here, a little less of your preference here, you know? You get smaller. You take up less space, you know? You make decisions based on what’s keeping the peace instead of what’s true for you. And then I think, in that disappearance, something happens.

I think, without realizing it, you start to resent the person that you’re centering, and it’s not because of who they are. It really isn’t, and this is why I always say this in my videos. , It’s because you’ve abandoned yourself to stay with them But perhaps it could have been okay even if you’d stayed with yourself.

So you resent that they don’t notice when you’ve gone quiet. You resent that they don’t ask why you’re not yourself anymore, or you resent that they, that they are able to just live their life centered in themselves while you’re over here like a cat trying to, , fit into a weird shaped vase, right?

And so then I think you start to collect evidence. , He did that, he did this, he didn’t notice this, you know, he didn’t… or she didn’t ask about that. And every piece of evidence that you gather kinda gets added to this, , big pile because , I think the real issue here, or the real problem, we’ll use the word problem, isn’t what he did.

The real problem is that you made yourself so small that you have become invisible, but then you’re angry at him for not seeing you. But he can’t see you, ’cause you disappeared on him. He’s not looking for you, because as far as he knows, you’re right there just adjusting and adapting like he is the center, ’cause that’s what that’s what he believes, right? So now you’re resentful, you’re trying to communicate why you’re resentful, and you’re trying to get him to see that the problem is not that he did one specific thing. The problem is this, , huge whole dynamic. And the problem is that you don’t exist in this relationship anymore. That’s the actual problem, is that you’ve centered him for so long that there just doesn’t seem to be any room for you.

And because he’s looking at you and thinking, “What are you talking about? I didn’t do anything.” Because he’s centered himself because that’s what he was taught. He can’t see the centering in this dynamic because it’s b- he– because he’s benefiting from it.

So now you’re both stuck, right? Like, you’re invisible and angry, he’s confused and defensive, and now the actual thing that’s broken, it’s the centering. It’s the disappearing. And so I think what happens is we try to fix this by having better conversations, or to explain, like, more and more and more clearly, right?

Or trying to get him to understand. And you cannot fix a centering problem by centering them more. I know that sounds so, like… You can’t fix a disappearing problem by disappearing even more. So what does it look like to actually de-center? So it looks like asking yourself, what do you actually want? And then honoring that.

I know it sounds so simple, but that’s it. It looks like you say no when you wanna say no, even if people get disappointed or grumpy. To be okay with the grumpy can be really hard. But it looks like you making a decision based on what’s right for you, not based on just what’s right for everybody else. It looks like, you know, letting other people be a little uncomfortable.

Like, being okay with that. It looks like being willing to wa- rock the boat. You know, at Thanksgiving time, I think every year, the past, , two or three years, I post this video that I did, like, three years ago about Thanksgiving, and I was going to get pie. And I was hovering over the pies, and everybody wanted pumpkin pie or apple pie.

And I want cherry pie. And I was like, everybody’s g- like, I’m not gonna buy a cherry pie for me. , I actually thought that. I’m not gonna just buy a cherry pie for… It’s the holiday. It’s my holiday, too. Like, I don’t have to lose myself just to accommodate other people. And so I think that, you know… So I bought the cherry pie, but I, I was like, even if I eat one piece and throw it out, , I’m okay with that.

It’s Thanksgiving. And I think the thing is, is that when you’re doing it You know, uh, I don’t think it feels, when you’re, like, doing it, when I say it, when you’re de-centering, I don’t think it feels selfish to anybody else. I think it feels selfish to you because you were taught your whole life that taking care of yourself is selfish and that centering other people is what love looks like.

But de-centering isn’t selfish. It’s just you coming back to yourself. And I think when we start de-centering, especially in a partnership, I think things shift. I think it shifts marriages in good ways. I think it shifts, , partnerships. I think it sh- can shift relationships at work. I think sometimes it shifts in a way that doesn’t work anymore But either way, it shifts.

Because now they’re with the real version of you, and you don’t wanna be in a relationship with somebody who’s not you. Now he’s with a woman, or she’s with a woman, who has opinions and preferences and needs, and now he’s not with someone who’s disappearing. And I think for some men, that can be really great.

I think they actually like the real version of you better. They actually wanna be with someone who’s not making themselves small. And for some men, you know, the centering was the whole deal, like having a woman who disappears so he can stay centered is really important to him, and that’s what he signed up for.

But when you de-center, then that whole dynamic doesn’t work anymore, and that is a lot of really important information that you won’t have otherwise. So I wanna say this, and I wanna be, like, honest about how I see this. And again, you know, this is my podcast, so I say what I think. You’re… You can ex- you can climb on board and like, “That makes a lot of sense to me,” but you don’t have to.

There can be parts of this that feel true to you and parts that don’t. But I think that de-centering is not a quick fix. I don’t think it’s something that you decide one day and you’re done. And the reason I say that is because I lived in an apartment by myself, and it took me eight months. Eight months before I could automatically shift to not centering.

Eight months of asking myself over and over again, “What do I want? What’s true for me? Is this the best choice for me?” And that’s just the basics. That’s just getting to the place where you’re not constantly thinking about what somebody else needs. Uh, like we’ve been learning… I mean, I was learning that for 53 years.

And I think the deeper work, the work of actually building a life around yourself instead of around someone else, I think that takes even longer. But here’s what I know. Every single time that you choose yourself, every single time you say no, every single time you make a decision based on what’s true for you, you’re de-centering.

And it gets easier, and it gets more familiar, and it starts to feel less like you’re being selfish and more like you’re actually being alive. So- If you’re thinking like, “Oh, I think if I de-centered, he wouldn’t like that.” , I’m not here to tell you to leave your marriage. , I’m not here to tell you that your husband is a problem, and I’m not here to tell you what to do.

But I am here to tell you this: if you’re resentful, if you’re angry, if you feel invisible, the first place to look is not him. The first place to look is where you’ve centered him and where you’ve disappeared. Because you can’t make a clear decision about your marriage from a place where you’ve already abandoned yourself.

You can’t think straight when you’re invisible. You can’t hear your own wisdom, your own internal guidance when you’re so busy, , listening to everybody else. So ask yourself, what is it that you really want? Not what your kids need, what… not what your husband needs, not what your friends think you should do, but what do you really want?

I remember I went with my son. He messaged me and said, “Do you wanna go get ice cream?” And I really didn’t want to, and I thought about saying no, and I decided to go anyway because he wanted to, and that made me happy. But knowing that I didn’t want to and that I was making a choice to that was conscious changed everything.

So when you know what you want, when you’re grounded in that, and then you can make a real decision, you’ll know whether you’re going to get ice cream or staying in your marriage because it is true for you, or it’s because you’ve disappeared and you didn’t feel like there was another option. Come back to yourself.

All the other stuff becomes easier after. And I think that is how you live a big life. All right, everyone, next week I’m gonna be in Belize at the retreat. I hope you come to the next retreat. We’ll have details on that soon. It’ll be sometime next year, and we will be thinking of you, especially if you reached out and said, “I’m thinking of going,” just know that I’m thinking of you and wish you were there.

But next week we’ll have a really great show with Joy and I talking about some things that have been happening with me that pushed me through a portal, a threshold, in my own experience over the past six weeks. All right, I love you guys so much. I’ll see you all next time.

Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.

In this episode the big take away is, you don’t have to know exactly what you want to begin; clarity can start with “Not This.” Betsy explains that naming what you won’t tolerate draws a line, reveals vital self-information, and starts a practical rhythm of change where action creates clarity over time. Another reminder that we don’t have to have every detail figured out. There is power in knowing what you don’t want.

Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy Pake, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

 Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show today. Happy after the 4th. Last week was the Fourth of July week, you know, or before the Fourth of July, I guess, and I took several days off, which was actually , a really welcome rest. And I thought I was gonna take time off from work, but , get all these projects done, and I feel like I just was really depleted.

I ended up just resting and going where the g- going where the wind took me, . And yeah, just kind of allowing my body to get what it needed, and I feel so much better coming back this week. You know, I took time off in February when I went to Morocco, but that’s really the last time that I had off.

, I’ve gone away for weekends and stuff, but that time in Morocco was so hectic. So I feel like it’s been since Christmas since I’ve just been able to, like, you know, take a nap in the afternoon and chill out. Uh, there was one day where it started… It was a nice day, and then at, like, 2:00 in the afternoon, it started raining, and I was like, “Oh, that’s my cue.”

I just, like, stripped down and got in bed in the middle of the day. I was like, “This is perfect. This is exactly what I needed.” So I did get some things done, though, and one of the things that I have been working on is the retreat that we have at the end of this month, at the end of July, , in Belize. So we are going to Belize for the Reimagined Life Retreat, and I’m super excited about it.

I have been ordering the little things that I want for the gift bags and ordered a couple things for the first five people, got some special things in their gift bag. So I ordered those things. And when I got the order in the other day, I got it from a company called Huckberry, and , it’s, , one of those companies that sends like

You know, you get stuff, and it’s, , wrapped in tissue paper, and then there’s, a little note from the founders and, , a sticker. You know what I’m talking about? And I think it’s, , an outdoorsy company. I actually knew what it was I wanted, and I Googled it, and then I came upon this company, and so I ordered it.

And I got this little card inside, and I wanna read it to you because it really got me thinking, as I li- as I like to do. Find a random thing and then overthink it. Okay, so I’m gonna read to you what this little note says that they put inside all their packages. It’s from the two co-founders, and it says We were on a rickety chairlift in Tahoe when we decided to go for it.

Looking back, we didn’t know exactly what it was, but we knew what it wasn’t: staring at spreadsheets for the rest of our lives. We quit our jobs, invested 10K each, and vowed to bring Huckberry to life, no matter what it took. And what started as a small shop run out of our apartments has grown into something way bigger than us, a brand that is equal parts store and source of in- inspiration, helping guys like us suck the marrow out of life.

I don’t know. I didn’t even look at the rest of the website. Maybe it’s menswear. , But the bags that I got, I got on that site. So here’s… It is a source of inspiration because of this little card that I thought about for a long time. And I actually, , I saved it and put it on my kitchen counter, and I was like, “I’m gonna go back to that.”

You know, h- how often do we wait to know what we want before we move? Right? How often do we tell ourselves, “I am gonna really go for it when I know exactly what it looks like,” like, when I have it all mapped out, when everything in the plan is complete and I know exactly what all the steps will be? But these guys didn’t wait for a vision.

They waited for the knowing, and that knowing was of what they were not willing to do anymore. And that’s the part that I kept thinking about, because I think a lot of times we don’t know the path, but we do know not this. And I think that is a missing piece for so many of the women that I talk to, you know?

They’ll say, “I don’t know what it is that I want.” I hear that all the time, and I kind of hate that we’re supposed to know. I don’t know. I, I have said often when we do, , goal-setting stuff or inside the Navigate method, like, every year I’ll do, , a goal-setting workshop, and I always say, , we’re not setting…

At the beginning of the year, I, I just never go, like, five-year goals. I know there probably is some data on why that could be helpful to me. I just have no idea who I’m gonna be. I don’t even know who I’m gonna be next summer, you know? And I think wanting to have all the pieces in place and to feel a level of certainty about anything in our lives is really, really valid.

And I think knowing what you don’t want, not this, is actually a okay place to start because it is information about what you’re willing to tolerate, all the things. All the things. Okay. So when I think about what happens when someone is able to say, like in our groups, like someone is able to say… And I wanna say, like, well, you know, I’m, I’m framing this around relationship just ’cause this is what we’re talking about, but , it could be anything.

This could be your work, your, you know, , your career, the way things are going. Maybe you’re in a career that you’re like, “I don’t even know what it is that I want, but it’s not this.” Oh, like, just being able to say that and have the relief, feel the relief of that acknowledgement is huge. I don’t know what I want, but it’s not this.

It’s not what I have right now. And that is not vague talking. That’s not, , wishy-washy. That can actually be a statement of fact. You know, when you say that, when you actually say it and mean it, you are telling yourself something that’s true. And whether it is intentional or not, you’re drawing a line.

And , that moment, you know, that you draw the line, you get a next level of information about yourself. And, , I know I talk a lot on here about, like, how our brains work and how we process information. And I know that our unconscious minds love metaphor. That’s why I tell so many stories on here.

But I think that when we are trying to get someplace other than where we are, but we don’t acknowledge where we are, it would be like if you got in your car and you set your GPS, but you, it, but your GPS had no idea where you were starting from. , You’d never be able to figure out how to get, even if you knew you were going to Target, if your GPS didn’t know inherently where you were, it would be very confusing and really challenging to get where you wanted to go.

And I think a lot of us think, “I have to have the entire picture before I can make any kind of move.” And I think that we think that we need to know what every step is going to feel like and look like and, and what will happen. But the truth is, the very first part of that is just knowing not this. Not this.

Because I think that’s actually how any change begins. You know, life isn’t exactly the way that we want it, right? Life isn’t you know exactly what you want, and you go out and you get it, and then you’re done, and it’s a clear trajectory, and you are making all the next steps and the next right steps and the next right steps, and things fall in line, and people come into your awareness that make it all happen with ease and flow.

I mean, that would be so freaking co- uh, sign me up for that. That’s where I’m going. That’s where, that’s where I’m going. But what life actually is, is you know what you don’t want Like that’s how it starts. You make a decision based on that, and then you move just a little bit. And as you move, things start to become clearer, right?

You push down that road for a little while. You, you rest for a little while, and then you adjust, and then you push again. It’s like a rhythm, you know? It’s not just like a straight line. And, you know, I think the Huckberry guys here didn’t know what their company would become. They just knew that they weren’t gonna spend the next 40 years, of, of their life in a, in an office watching spreadsheets.

And so they went, right? They just went, and in the going, it is in the doing, it is in the showing up day after day that they figured out what it was. And I, , I’m willing to bet the site that I didn’t even look at, I just bought the one, the one thing that I wanted from their website. I am willing to bet that things will look different in five years than they do now, in 10 years than they do now.

Maybe they’ll sell the company. Maybe they’ll be done. Maybe someday they’ll look at this and go, “Not this.” Because that’s just how life works, you know? And so here’s kind of what I want, where I wanna go with this. I wanna offer you the idea that you don’t have to know what you want yet, but I want you to know what you don’t want.

I want you to get really clear on that, on the thing that you are not willing to do anymore. Like , on the way of being that you know just doesn’t fit, you know? On the pieces of your life that feel too small or too quiet or, or there’s pieces of you that are disappearing, and you’re like, “I’m not gonna do that anymore.”

And I think that clarity is actually enough to begin. And I think when we acknowledge it, like when we say it out loud , or decide this thing for ourselves, we say, “I don’t know what I want, but I know it’s not this,” I do think it’s like making a vow to yourself. It’s not a vow that what comes next has to be exactly perfect, but it is a vow that you are not gonna keep abandoning yourself where you are.

Not in your relationship, not in your work, not in your friendship, not in your health, , not anywhere. And the vow is to stop making yourself smaller to fit into a life that was never built for who you actually are. I think that becomes the work. I think that is always the work. How do I keep choosing myself even through life, even through challenges, not knowing what comes after, but the permission starts with not this.

And if you’re listening and you have been waiting for the perfect answer or the perfect plan or the perfect moment when you’re gonna know exactly how it’s gonna go or what it is that you really want, I wanna offer you some permission to stop waiting. Just start there, and start with that line that you draw for yourself, ’cause that can be enough.

And I think when you can do that, that is how you live a big life. All right, everyone. If you have been struggling in deciding whether to stay or go in your marriage, you know, you’re always welcome to talk with us about the Navigate method. You can find the link to book a call on my website at betsypake.com or just message me on Instagram.

I’ll send you the link. We can talk, see if it’s a good fit, if we’ll be able to help you, and then, you know, you can say, “Not this, but this is what’s next.” All right. Have an amazing week. I will see you guys next week. I love you so much. Bye.

Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.

Is Betsy moving to the beach? Inquiring minds want to know. Tune in to get the update, and remember that changing course isn’t failure or indecisiveness it’s just listening to oneself, and that not knowing yet isn’t being stuck. It’s important to remain open as we evolve. Decisions can be amended, updated to reflect our needs and wants as we grow.

Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy Pake, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

Hello. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show today. This is gonna be sort of a shorter show, a shorter episode, and the reason… Well, the reason is ’cause there’s not a lot to talk about with this, but I did wanna give a really important update. You know, I, I had this thought and I wanted to share it with you.

It’s kind of a follow-up to an episode that I did a few months ago. If you remember, we talked about how I make big decisions, and I went through, , this whole thought process. And one of the things that I had decided to do in that episode, and I talked about it in the birthday Q&A episode, was moving to the beach, to Florida specifically.

And I think in the big decision episode, it was, I was really heavily leaning towards California. Anyway, a few days ago, yesterday maybe, I posted on Instagram that I had come to the realization about the beach and that I felt like I was sort of grieving. And a lot of people messaged me.

, I was surprised how many people messaged me and said, “Wait, are you not moving to the beach? What’s happening?” And so I thought maybe we need to do a little update, because I’m certainly not trying to hi- As you know, I tell all the things. And one of the things about this episode, and I think with my social media, and I think just with me in general, is that I tell- things in real time.

Like, uh, you know, unless it’s something painful, I wait until I’ve processed those things. But, , if it’s something that I’m actively working on, I think that’s sort of the beauty of this show, right? Is that as things are being in development, w- I share and we talk about them, and I’m noodling through things.

And so I wanna talk about this a little bit, … So let’s talk, let’s start from the episode where I talked about big decisions. And man, did I feel like California was the place. In fact, I still do. If somebody came down with a magic wand and said, “There will be no loss, only positive.

Where would you like to go?” I would absolutely say I wanna go to California. But there is loss, and there is trade-offs to things. And when I really weighed things from , like, from the place where I am standing, California felt too big. I actually questioned, is it a nervous system thing? , Is it just my nervous system saying I can’t handle that?

But I absolutely believe I can handle that. I, I don’t think it was that, and I’m, I’m gonna get into some pieces of this, ’cause it all plays out. But at that time, I, feel like there is one aspect of this that’s financial, and I am d- of the belief, and I stand by this, that financial things work themselves out.

I really don’t have a lot of fear. I probably need, I probably need a little healthier amount of fear around finances, and I just believe everything works itself out. I, , it always has, it always does. I just don’t worry about it. , I had a friend that reached out to me, , I don’t know, a month or six weeks ago, and she said, “I have accumulated some business debt, and I’m really stressing out about it.”

And I said, “Just don’t look at it.” Just don’t look at it. And she was like, “Well, no, I mean, I…” And I said, “Yeah, I mean, it, it is going to be there whether you look at it or not, but you looking at it is making you feel like crap, and when you feel like crap, you’re not gonna be creating more of it. So why don’t we just not look at it for a little while?

Or if you feel like you have to look at it, like, block off 15 minutes every night and think about it. But other than that, don’t think about it. It’s not helping you.” And that’s just been my philosophy, so I just don’t worry about stuff. I know that there are thousands and thousands of people that live in California and figure out the finances, so I know I can too.

That wasn’t my worry. There was a little bit of a worry of how I structure my business, some of the ways that I have contractors I couldn’t necessarily have in that way in California. But also there was a point of if I’m making really good s- sound decisions as a 55-year-old woman, it would be a different sound decision financially if I was a 30-year-old woman.

, My runway would be different. And when I looked at what I was would be paying in taxes, the difference in the taxes was substantial, taxes on my business. And I thought, you know, is it worth looking for other places just in case there’s another place that I would like just as well? But I wanna tell you that the financial piece really wasn’t the clincher for me, ’cause

All that stuff is figure-out-able. Here was the clincher. And I’m gonna make this as simple, , when I describe it as I can, but then we’ll dive into it a little bit, but- I grew up on the East Coast. I’ve always wanted to live on the West Coast, but I grew up on the East Coast. My father is 85 years old, and he lives on the East Coast.

All my friends from high school that are my closest friends, they all live on the East Coast, in New England, most of them. My son lives on the East Coast, and the thought, although he is great, he’s 24, he’s doing well, although the thought of moving felt really fun, the thought of being in a place where I could get home without…

Like, I could get in my car and get to any one of those people felt really important to me. And when I thought about living on the West Coast and having to… Like, you know, it wasn’t even like I’d have to buy a $1,500 plane ticket, although I would, to get home. And so if I wanted to come home every month, that would be a substantial thing to plan.

If somebody was sick or somebody needed me, you know, , to move away at, like, was a whole other layer. So this is what… So those two things are the things that I was like, “Okay, so let me just start taking a look.” And I started looking, and I’m telling you, like, when I say I st- When I say I was looking, , I wasn’t just, , looking at a map.

I was going… I, I went all the way around the coast of Florida, and I used YouTube and I used realtors’ videos. So you can find a realtor anywhere you wanna go, and they will do walking tours. They will show apartment buildings. They will show streets and parking lots. I mean, you can find, , a map of the world on YouTube.

So- I went all the way down the coast. Besides the fact that I have been to… My dad lived in Florida for 30 years. My step brothers and sisters lived in Florida. , I, I’m very familiar with Florida. , But I checked out all the little places that I might wanna look at, and what I finally decided was I really wanted to be near an airport, like a bigger airport, and I wanted to be in a place where it was a blue dot.

You know,, Florida is a red state, and it was important for me to find like-minded people that I could live near and be friends with. Now, I don’t need everybody to think just like me. That’s not what I’m saying, but I do have a trans son, and I wanted to be able to have him come visit in a place where he felt comfortable and loved and supported.

And so, you know, I finally decided. I was like, St. Pete seems like a really great place. It’s a blue dot in a red state. It’s near a big airport in Tampa. I have some people that I know that live nearby. My neighbor here in Atlanta used to live there, and we went out to lunch, and she… We pulled out the map, and she gave me all the places to look at.

And I planned that trip for my birthday to go down, and I’m, was so sure, I was so sure that I was gonna go down there that weekend and find an apartment. I planned to give notice at my apartment in just a couple days, like July 1st, so then I would move in August, ’cause I have to give two months’ notice.

And I was so sure, I bought a plane ticket to go to London. You know, I’m going to London in November, and I bought the plane ticket from Tampa. , That’s how certain I was based on all the research I had done, how I was feeling, everything. So I bought a plane ticket, and I was like, “I’m going down there.

I’m gonna find my apartment, figure out where I wanna live. I’m gonna give my notice, break my lease, and I’m gonna move in August after my retreat in Belize in July.” And I felt really good and aligned, and I went down there, and I really had the best time. I met a friend of mine down there, and I mean, I r- I really am so grateful I went down,

We went everywhere. Like, we went everywhere, drove everywhere, checked every little place out, and I just couldn’t find a place that, felt right. I felt like I was trying to fit into something that didn’t have room for who I am becoming. And I want to explain something about that, ’cause I think this is where a lot of times we get stuck, is we make a decision, you know, we make a plan, and we commit to it.

And then when we get there, or when we get close, we feel something that tells us this isn’t it. And instead of listening to that feeling, we push harder. We try to convince ourselves. We gaslight ourselves, right? And we say, like, “Well, I already decided. I already bought a plane ticket. I already told people.

I already started.” But that feeling, that is not a sign that you failed to plan right. It’s not a sign that you’re indecisive. It’s your intuition. And you know what’s the weirdest thing, is I got off the plane, I got in my rental car, and I drove right to a hotel by the airport, and I spent the night, and in the morning, I drove into St.

Pete and I called my friend Molly and I said, “This place can’t hold me.” That’s the… I know that’s a weird thing to say, but I was like, “This… It isn’t… This isn’t the place.” Like, I knew, , right away Ugh. And I tried to find other places, and it’s funny, my friend Kim was driving me around, and when we got to the marina area, I perked up a little.

She was like, “This is the first time I’ve seen you, like, really sit up and, like, look around.” But I found myself saying things like, “Oh, but in Atlanta we have that.” , I was comparing it a lot to Atlanta. And so I, I really wanted it to work, but I recognized that feeling I had, that’s the feeling that I listen to, and it’s not a sign that I failed to plan.

. It’s not a sign that I’m indecisive. It was my intuition. It was, it was me. It was the version of me that I am becoming was saying, “Hey, wait a minute. This doesn’t fit anymore.” And I think there was a version of me that really wanted to move to the beach, , for a decade.

M- I mean, more than a decade, but really hyper-focused on it for a decade. There was a version of me that had decided it, and that version was real. I, wasn’t making that up. But here’s what I think really happened over the last year, is I grew. I changed. I became a lot different, and I have a level of decisiveness that I’ve never had before.

And the version of me, the one who made the plan, she doesn’t exist anymore exactly like she was. And I don’t mean that in, , like a spiritual, like we’re, we’re all constantly evolving, you know? Although, I believe we are all constantly evolving, but I mean this in a really practical way too.

The things that matter to me now are not the same things that mattered to me five, six years ago. The space that I need, the word space, maybe we need to define that. I’m talking about an energetic space, and I don’t know how to explain that other than I hope you know what I mean by that. But like the energetic space that I need has gotten bigger, and the kind of life that I really wanna be living is clearer.

And when I went down there and I felt that space and I realized that it was lovely, amazing, beautiful, awesome, and I realized that it didn’t have room for all of me. I wasn’t rejecting the plan, but I was honoring what I know now that I actually need. Do you see what I’m saying? It’s like this part that’s, that’s really important is that I didn’t fail because I changed my mind.

I succeeded because I listened, and this was a really important lesson. I think it was like a pivotal point in my whole journey There was a version of me that wanted to live at the beach, and that version of me doesn’t exist anymore. She’s dead. There’s a version of me that lives now, and maybe it’ll still be at the beach, but it won’t be anywhere that I thought, and I have to give space instead of trying to push this.

And I think when we’re trying to make big decisions, I’m not making this change. I’m not changing my mind. I’m not even saying never. I’m just saying the way I was doing it, it’s not right. Something’s not right. And I have done a lot of pushing in my life, and I have pushed when something didn’t feel right because I thought that the pushing was the same as being committed.

I thought that it meant that I was being brave. I thought it meant that I wasn’t being flaky. I don’t ever wanna be flaky or indecisive. And it is possible to be brave and also to not force something that doesn’t have to be forced right now. You know, my lease isn’t up until mid-February. I could break it pretty easily.

It was like two grand to break it, which I really don’t wanna spend two grand either. , If… I’m not, uh, dying in love with where I wanna go that I can’t even wait one more minute. , I d- it’s not like I got two grand to blow. I could. I could push. I could try to make the Florida thing work anyway. I could say, “I’m just gonna go down for a year,” and schlep all my stuff down.

Half of it’ll probably get broken in the move. Y- you know how it goes. But the version of me, the one who knows how to listen, she said, “No.” She said, “You don’t actually have to do that. You can stay. You can think about this. You can explore. You can check out California again with new eyes.” When I went home to Vermont a couple weeks ago, all my girlfriends live, , in New York City.

. All of them live in New England. All of my friends from growing up, my really good friend Molly that I went to Morocco with earlier this year, New York City. My best friend from growing up, New York City. , One of my other really good friends that I talk to all the time, have for years, New York City.

Like, maybe it’s New York City. Maybe I could just stay in Atlanta. I could, my lease could end and I could go month to month., I don’t have to know right now. And I want you to hear this in case you’re in the middle of a big decision, right? Not knowing right now is not the same as being stuck. I have struggled with this ’cause I’m like, “Oh, I wanna know.

I wanna know,” because I’m looking forward to where it is. But when I went to Vermont, I recognized that one of the things that was so great about being home was my friends. It was being with people that knew me forever. It was, it was f- like just feeling like I could, I could sleep. I know that’s a weird thing.

Like, I could just felt like I could just …, my friend Heather, I just wanted to be like, “Can I sit on your lap? Like, I just need to rest.” And I, it was that feeling of being carried by people we love. And then I think about my son. He’s totally fine if I leave. He’s “Leave. Go to California.” I mean, he’s encouraging me.

And we also do a lot of things together. We run out for tacos once a week. We share chicken salad when I buy too much chicken salad. , There are really good things in that, too. And I think before I did this whole experiment, I was overlooking some of the really good things in my life. And so, you know, sometimes listening to yourself means appreciating where you are.

Sometimes it means slowing down. Sometimes it means, let me just feel into this thing a little bit longer. Let me see what else is available. Let me not force something because I’m afraid of not, of looking like I changed my mind, you know? So I decided the people who think you’re gonna be flaky for changing your mind are not the people who need to be in your life.

The people who matter … And I’ll tell you, nobody thinks I’m flaking. The, uh, and the messages I all got w- like, were so nice and supportive. People were , genuinely interested. Like, “How are you doing this? What’s happening?” But the people who matter, the people who love you, the people who get it, they get it.

They understand that you’re listening to yourself, and if they don’t get it yet, that’s okay, too. But I want you to know something. You have the capacity to know yourself better than anyone. Your intuition knows what fits and what doesn’t fit, and I think our bodies know when something is too small or doesn’t have the room for who you’re becoming.

And the thing that took me so long to understand is that it is not arrogant to listen to that energetic bubble. It’s actually the most honest thing I think you can do for yourself. It’s telling yourself, hey, your feelings matter here, your f- your needs matter. And,, if you’ve been here for a while and you

even if you just listened to the birthday episode and you heard me talking about how I was told a lot as a young woman after my mom died, you know, that my feelings didn’t matter, that my needs didn’t really matter. Other people’s needs mattered more, and I believed that for a long time, and I don’t believe that anymore.

And so what’s the best way to honor and to, prove to my nervous system that that’s not true? Is to pause. I’m not gonna pretend something fits when it doesn’t just so I can prove that I can stick to a plan. So I’m staying in Atlanta for right now. I’m staying in my apartment. I’m staying open to what comes, and I’m really, really glad that I went down to Florida.

I’m really glad that I tested it. I’m really glad I got to hang out with my friend Kim. I’m gonna go back down probably more times than not, and I’m so pleased with myself because now I know. I know what fits and what doesn’t, and maybe that will fit later. Maybe I’ll go down and visit Kim, and then I’ll be like, “You know what?

I can see my life here.” But that’s how you get clarity. , That’s how you get information, you know? That’s a, a big difference, I think, between trying to live the life you thought you should have, ’cause for decades I thought that was the life I should have. The moment … I remember we were driving. Kim and I were driving, and I remember thinking like, “I have dreamt of this moment of having the choice to say, ‘I’m coming here.

I’m gonna live here. I’m gonna be able to drive to the ocean in 10 minutes.'” , I have dreamt of that, but the actuality of that it, it, something wasn’t quite right yet. Yet. You know when something feels right and when it doesn’t, and your job is just to listen. My job is just to trust the feeling enough to act on it, even when it doesn’t look like how you thought it was gonna look., But I think that there also has been a lot of grief around that. I think I came home, it’s, I’ve been home now for a month, having this realization, am I ever gonna go to the beach? Is the beach the place?

, I never, m- I never imagined the beach, , in the cold. Like, I never imagined, like, Maine being my beach. Do you know what I mean? It was always, , tropical beach, warmer beach, Florida at least, ? And so I think there’s been a grieving because I’m recognizing and I had such a realization that the version of me that l- lived there, is kinda gone, you know?

And I, I think there was, like, some sadness in that. I had to… You know, I, I always say, like, when we get divorced, we have to let go of this version of us or this version of our lives that we thought we would have, and I felt like that’s what was happening to me. , I was re- I was really grieving it. It was like on that one podcast with Joy when we recorded the Q&A for my birthday, I was crying, I was so overjoyed.

And now, like, I, I, now I’m crying ’cause it’s not what I thought. And, a- a- and here’s the thing, I’m open to anything, and I’m gonna stop- I’m just gonna … I, I guess I’ll say it like this. I’m gonna just become hyper-aware. I’m just gonna be being for a while. I’m gonna notice what lights me up. I made a list ’cause I was like, “What do, what do I want?”

And I made a list, and I made sure that the list didn’t include anything that I could discount. So this is what I would do. I would say, , “I wanna have, I wanna be by the beach, but I need to be near a big airport. , I, I wanna be near, on the ocean, but I need to be in a place where I could potentially afford to buy someplace.”

So everything has these caveats. So I was like, “I wanna make a list.” Like, I want, I want a screened-in porch for my cat. That’s what I want. I wanna be able to drive to someplace where I feel inspired. I want to be able to feel like I can … Like I belong. I wanna feel rooted. One of the things I noticed when I was in Florida was that I really wanted to

This is gonna sound silly, but I really wanted to be able to wear winter jackets. , I grew up in Vermont, like 10 minutes from the Canadian border. , I wanted to be able to, to have seasons. And I got there, and it was my birthday weekend, and it was so hot down there. And although I loved it, I thought, “Could I live in it?”

Everything changed. So I started just making lists of, this feels good. It feels good to think about having a big patio for my cat. It feels good to have a place where I have close friendships, the kind where you can open the door and say, “Hey,” and not have to knock, you know? It feels good to have … And so I just started making the list and not worrying if it contradicted anything else on the list.

I just made my list, and I’m adding to the list, and the list is just the things that feel good. Will I get all the things? Well, that’d be great, but I don’t know that life works that way. There is grief. There is loss in everything. If I go to the beach, I’m losing things in Atlanta, and if I stay in Atlanta, I’m losing the dream of the beach.

But now I realize that maybe the vision, maybe the dream is shifted a little bit, and so I’m gonna just let that be. I’m gonna let that be what it is. I’m in no rush. Life is just waiting for me, and I know that when we go through something big like this, it means there’s something really amazing coming, and I’m gonna just let that thing come without trying to push or control it.

Ah. And when you can do that, I think that is when you live a big life. All right. Thanks so much for being here this week. Thanks for being on this journey. I’m open to idea- if you live in a beautiful place and you’re like, “You should come visit,” let me know, ’cause I will check it out. I will add it to my list, and we’ll, we’ll see how it all unfolds.

All right. See you guys next week

Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.

Do you ever wish you could fast forward your life through the hard parts just to get to the good stuff? In this episode of The Art of Living Big, Betsy reminds us that getting forged during the tough times is actually part of our reclamation. Skipping over that part would be a disservice to our growth, resilience and strength. Maybe that is where the saying ‘no pain, no gain’ came from? Enjoy the listen and embrace the process:)

Transcript:

 Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy P, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the show today. I have been doing… I, I’ve been on w- I’ve been on what I call a podcast tour. So I have been on a podcast tour where I am guests on people’s podcasts. I’ll be sharing those so you can listen if you’re interested, but it’s been really fun. We’ve had dozens of them scheduled, and I have been doing, , it feels like a podcast a day.

I did one yesterday. I did one this morning, early this morning. And so as I’ve been doing that, there has been something that’s been coming up, and I thought, “You know what? This keeps coming up in all these conversations, and I feel like it’s a really good conversation to have together here on the show.”

And I think even if you are , if you’re listening , and you’re thinking like, “I’m single,” or, “I’m happily married,” this, the… I, wanna say it like this, like the, root of what I’m saying can kind of overlap lots of situations even though the dynamic that I’m gonna explain it in is gonna be about your marriage, okay?

With a- w- your partnership, your relationship, whatever that looks like. And I’m gonna try and relate back to other things just so you can kinda see how this overlays lots of things, as, as things do. You know? Nothing is in a vacuum, as they say. So one of the things that keeps coming up in these conversations is about what I hear from so many women, and it is that they know that they would like to leave their husband.

And they say like, “If, if you could just wave a magic wand. , I just wanna be down the street in my apartment and settled and be through this thing. I don’t wanna have to actually go through this thing. I just wanna be done with it.” And I hear this over and over and over again, and I have said this. I have said this so many times in my journal.

When I look back in my journals, it’s, it, , there is c- so often, like these exact words. , “I am so clear that I don’t wanna be here. I’m so clear that this feels terrible, and I don’t wanna go through what I have to go through in order to get to where I wanna be. And if I could just snap my fingers and be there, then absolutely that is what I would do.”

And I think, you know, I think this process is hard. Any time you are moving from one place to another place that you wanna be, whether it’s a big move, leaving a relationship, changing your career, it is hard. And being in the middle of it is hard, and deciding you’re gonna step into what you know is gonna be like a little hurricane before you get to where you wanna go is really hard But what I realized when I started hearing this repeatedly is that there is something underneath that wish.

There is something that’s really important, and I want to talk about that. You guys have … You may have heard me talk about this earlier in the year, but on January 1st of this year, I woke up and I was, I was mad. I was I woke up, like, big mad, and I don’t ever wake up mad. , I don’t wanna say ever, never, ’cause I did one day on January 1st, but I, I

That is not a typical thing. Like, I’m pretty, , springy out of bed and happy-go-lucky. But this year, I woke up and I was mad. And I woke up mad and I thought, “This is really weird,” because I love, , the, the beginning of a week, the first of a month. Give me the beginning of a year, , I’m like, fresh starts.

Like, I love all that stuff, you know? I love setting goals and I love, like, all, of what n- New Year’s means. And so it was weird to me that I felt so angry, and the first thing I thought was that I was mad at my former husband. And that was a weird feeling, because I don’t really think about him. And I realized that I was

The, the feeling felt so im- , urgent. It felt very urgent, and my instinct really was, like, it’s the first of the year. I have the day off. There’s a lot to celebrate. I need to just put this aside. Like, brush it asi- you know how we do., I’m gonna focus on other things. And then I thought, “No, no, no. Let me sit.

I wanna get, I wanna get big, big mad. I wanna figure this out. , Why is this at my doorstep?” And so I sat. Like you may know, I have my, my thinking chair. And so I sat in my chair and I thought about it, and I thought about it, and I let myself feel it, all the places it was in my body, where it was settling, h- what it felt to me like it looked like, like, how the weight of it, like, all the things.

And after some time of noodling through what was actually happening, I realized something. It was that I wasn’t mad at him. I was mad at me. I was mad at all those times, all those different circumstances where I should have stood up for myself, where I should have risen from my seat and said, “No more,” and walked away, where I should have said something and I didn’t.

And what I recognized after some time was that in each of those situations that I was mad at And that morning, it just, all these instances came into my mind, and what I realized was that each version of me in those situations I was remembering, that version of me that stayed in that difficult situation, was a version of me that was adapting and changing.

And she wasn’t always adapting and changing to my detriment. You know, when I, thought back of all these instances, and I was… I thought, “I’m mad at him for this, and I’m mad at him for that, and I’m mad at him,” and I realized I was mad at me for not standing up and leaving. I was mad at me for allowing someone to treat me that way.

And when I really sat with it, I realized that I was growing into the version of me who could finally choose herself. And when it was finally time to leave, the version of myself that was resolute and clear and ready for what was next was forged because of those moments. She didn’t stay longer because she was unable.

She stayed longer because she ne- needed to be fortified to be able to make a different choice. You know, th- just like you in your marriage or at your work or whatever it is that you’re going through, there are so many moments, you know, when, when you think like, “I knew something wasn’t right. Like, I felt it.

I had the knowing, but I didn’t act on it.” And I think that is what had made me so mad on January 1st. I was mad at all the moments that I had the knowing and I didn’t do anything. But it really changed everything when I got this different perspective, that those moments, those versions of me that stayed even though I knew something was wrong, they weren’t weak.

It was me adapting. It was me gathering evidence. It was me becoming a version of myself that would eventually be the version of myself that sits here now. So when I felt the anger on January 1st, I,, I was angry at all the places where I had the knowing and didn’t act But those versions of me weren’t weak, they were adapting.

. We think of adapting like it’s something that happens to us, like it’s defeat. But adaptation can actually be one of the most powerful things that you can do as a human. It is how we survive. It is, it is how we evolve.

It is how we become whoever we need to be for the next moment. And I want you to think about the different versions of yourself. You know, not the versions that people see, the versions that you know about. You know, the versions of you that maybe knew something was wrong, but didn’t have the language for it yet.

I found this in my marriage, that having the language for things made really complicated, hurtful experiences make more sense. Language is so important, and I think there is a version of you that likely didn’t believe that you deserved better, right? There’s a version of you that rationalized and minimized and made excuses.

There is a version of you that people-pleased so close to the sun that you disappeared a little bit every single day. Do you see what I’m saying? Those versions of you aren’t, failures. They’re like … It’s like a way station, ? They’re the place where you had to learn something, where you gathered a whole bunch of evidence, and where you built the muscle of knowing that something didn’t feel right, even when you weren’t ready to act on it.

I think that distinction is really important, because we can know something but still not be ready to act on it, and that is an okay place to be. What’s important is that we are honest with ourselves about our knowing. And every single one of those versions of you are necessary. , Every single moment of, staying small, every single moment of adaptation, , every single moment of where you knew but didn’t act is really important, because they led somewhere.

So I couldn’t have gotten to the place that I got without being in the place that I was. That version of me, I feel like I’m kinda going around the horse a million times, but that version of me was made up of all those other versions, right? She was the accumulated learning of a woman who had tried everything else, and she was the resolved version of someone who had finally, gotten to the point where staying was more painful than leaving.

And that is the thing that I think women are missing when they say, “I just wanna be divorced without going through the process.” And I understand, , I get it, the process is hard, but the process is also what makes you strong. The process is what forges you. And, you know, when I, when I say that, I think about, like, pottery.

You know, like real pottery. When a potter makes a piece of pottery, a bowl or a cup, they don’t just decide it’s gonna be a bowl and then it’s a bowl. They have to work with the clay. ? They do that thing on the wheel like in Ghost, right? They, have to feel places where it’s too thick and it’s too thin, and sometimes they have to squish it all down and remake it and start over.

And then you have to be really careful and take it into a kiln, right? Where it’s, , thousands of degrees, and the heat is what makes it hard. It’s the heat that actually… I mean, the, it’s the pressure that gives it the shape, but it’s, the heat of it that makes it strong So going through that process, like I don’t wanna go through it, that’s, it’s, it is the reclamation.

It’s the good part. It feels bad, but it is the part that is making you into the version of you that is the beautiful piece of pottery. And if you’ve been wondering about your marriage for a long time, or a big decision for a long time, if you’re someone who has felt the knowing and not acted on it yet, or if you have been waiting for permission to leave, or waiting for something else to happen, or if you’re somebody who’s, , in the process right now, and you’re in the middle of it, and it is hard, I want you to know that every version of you that adapted, every version of you that stayed through something hard, that was you becoming something.

That was you gathering evidence. That was you building the strength and the clarity that you would have what you needed for what came next. And, , I think about this sometime as I’m making this decision to move. , It’s hard. There’s a lot of things that I’m weighing. There’s things that I never even thought were important until I got to the place where I had to decide.

There are versions of me that I have imagined that I’m not sure if they’ll exist in one place or the other. And so I know that going through a move, like I don’t wanna pack, I don’t wanna… All of that is what it’s gonna take to get to the other side. The expense, the, struggle, the hard work of doing it.

Now, remarkably, it is remarkably easier than leaving a long-term partnership. But in so many ways it’s similar. But what I’ve learned, and what you learn when you go through any hard thing, it’s that if you could just have waved a magic wand and gotten through it, you wouldn’t be somebody who could sustain it. You’d, be a different person, and not the kind of person who could be on the other side. I know that I’ve gotta go through making this hard decision on whether to move or not, which I know is a very small thing, but it feels big.

It feels big. And I’m not so much worried about making a right or wrong decision, but I am worried about all the work it’s gonna take to get to wherever I wanna go. And I know that when I go through that, I will know myself better, I will learn more about myself, I will know that I can survive minor inconveniences and hard things, and that I can make a decision, and I can stick with that decision, and that I can have a voice, and I can do things that I wanna do.

And that is the process. That’s what the process gives you, and that’s what going through it creates for you. So if you have been in the wanting to leave but not in the processing place right now, “I wanna leave, but I don’t wanna go through the process of leaving,” I want you to know something. The process, it isn’t punishment.

It’s, it’s not a tax that you have to pay to get to the other side. It is a process that is the thing that makes you. It is the thing that takes all of those other versions of you, all of those other moments of staying small, and gathering, and knowing, and it turns them into something unbreakable. You’re not weak for having stayed.

You’re strong because you stayed. You’re strong because you learned, and you’re strong because you finally got to the point where you were ready And so if you’re in that right now, and you’re tired, and you’re scared, and you’re grieving, I want you to know that you are being forged. Every hard conversation that you show up to, every piece of paperwork, every moment where you have to be stronger than you thought you could be, that is the pottery wheel.

That’s the kiln. That’s where you becoming the version of yourself that can build a new life is being forged. So you already know this on some level. You already know that you just can’t skip ahead over the hard parts. I wish we could and end up on the other side unchanged. I remember saying to my sister, “I don’t want this to change me.

I don’t want to be changed.” And she said, “You already are.” And I thought, “Oh, so true.” Maybe going through the hard part is a way of reclaiming ourselves. You already know that becoming someone new takes time, and heat, and pressure. And you already know that the strength that you’re gonna have on the other side of this is something that you have to earn.

And I want you to listen to that knowing. I want you to trust it. And I think when you can do that, that is how you live a big life. Thanks so much for being here with me this week. I love you guys so much. I will see you next week

Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today.

You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.