Sisters In Sobriety

What happens when alcohol feels like the only way to become comfortable in your own skin? In this episode, Sonia is joined by Braunwyn Spinner, advocate, mother of seven, and former Real Housewives of Orange County cast member whose sobriety unfolded in public.

How can someone go years without alcohol and still have a serious drinking problem? What changes when a social life—and a television career—is built around drinking? Braunwyn and Sonia explore relapse, alcohol withdrawal, AA and the 12 steps, sober socializing, queer recovery spaces, codependency, parenting, and the difference between avoiding alcohol and developing emotional sobriety. They also ask why getting sober can initially feel worse, how to identify the “fun limit,” and what it means to choose recovery when relationships and routines begin to change.

Their conversation makes clear that alcohol dependence is not defined only by how often a person drinks, but by what happens after the first drink. They discuss why heavy withdrawal should never be attempted alone, how independent transportation and an exit plan can protect early sobriety, and why repeatedly stopping for a few days can mean reliving the hardest stage again and again. Recovery can include community, boundaries, therapy, medication, and learning to recognize the restless “wanting” beneath substitute compulsions.

Braunwyn also shares the deeply personal story behind her first drink at 14, the moment in Miami that ended her drinking, and the sober producer who helped get her into an AA meeting when she planned to relapse. She opens up about realizing she was gay in sobriety, leaving a decades-long marriage, co-parenting, becoming more present with her children, surviving a mental health crisis, returning to television, and loosening the hold of beauty standards and the male gaze.

This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources.

Highlights

00:01 – Braunwyn introduces herself in a new chapter as Braunwyn Spinner
00:02 – Why her first drink made her feel comfortable in her skin
00:04 – The difference between abstinence and working a recovery program
00:05 – Why time between drinks does not rule out alcohol addiction
00:07 – How reality television accelerated her drinking
00:09 – The “God shot” that told her drinking had to end
00:12 – Sonia’s final drink and the unexpected day sobriety began
00:14 – What the first 30 days can feel like
00:16 – The sober producer who helped save Braunwyn’s life
00:19 – Finding comfort instead of judgment in AA
00:21 – Sobriety, stillness, and realizing she was gay
00:23 – Protecting early recovery with a private room, car, and exit plan
00:24 – Recognizing the sober “fun limit”
00:27 – Braunwyn’s first sober kiss with a woman
00:29 – How sobriety exposed codependency and changed her marriage
00:34 – Parenting with presence and making living amends
00:36 – Why emotional health can feel worse before it gets better
00:38 – Queer identity, religious trauma, and addiction risk
00:42 – Recognizing substitute addictions and the feeling of “wanting”
00:52 – Why giving sobriety six weeks can change everything

 

Braunwyn's Links

📸 Instagram

SIS Links

💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen

📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email

📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram

🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast

📸 Kathleen’s Instagram

Early sobriety can feel euphoric, terrifying, lonely and unexpectedly funny—sometimes all in the same day. In this episode of Sisters in Sobriety, Sonia and Kathleen explore what the first days and months without alcohol actually look like and share practical ways to manage cravings, triggers and life after rehab. They are joined by Heather Chappell and Zoe Kachan, host and co-host of Girl, Undrunk, the raw, unfiltered sobriety podcast that finds humor in the highs, lows and messiness of recovery.

What happens when someone returns from rehab to the same apartment, routines and drinking cues they left behind? How do friendships change when alcohol is no longer the thing holding them together? Heather and Zoe discuss the “rehab high,” the fear of relapse, sober community, dating without alcohol and the surprising challenge of discovering who they are when drinking is no longer shaping their personalities.

The conversation examines emotional sobriety, mental health and the slow work of developing coping skills that alcohol once replaced. Heather and Zoe explain how meetings, sponsorship, therapy, firm boundaries and supportive sober friendships helped them build safer lives. They also share simple approaches to cravings: staying in the present, following the possible consequences of a drink from beginning to end, leaving overwhelming situations and naming uncomfortable feelings out loud.

Heather and Zoe also open up about the experiences that led them to treatment, from isolation and deteriorating health to job loss, a DUI and repeated hospital visits. Their stories continue beyond getting sober, revealing the anger, trauma and relationship patterns that resurfaced in recovery. An honest discussion of sober intimacy explores how the body can carry fear even when the mind feels safe—and why patience, communication and self-trust matter while learning to date and connect without alcohol.

This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources.

Episode Highlights
02:00 Heather’s loneliness, anxiety and escalating drinking in New York
05:00 The call that finally took Heather to rehab
06:00 Zoe’s early drinking, drug use and need to fit in
09:00 A DUI, hospital visits and Zoe’s last attempt to start over
11:00 Leaving rehab and facing the first 90 days
12:00 Resisting an early craving at the dog park
13:00 Building a protective routine around high-risk hours
15:00 Discovering that personality and humor survive sobriety
17:00 Relearning adulthood after years of drinking
19:00 Mental health, emotional sobriety and alcohol as a coping mechanism
21:00 Meetings, sponsorship and rebuilding confidence
22:00 Therapy, anger and confronting the past without alcohol
24:00 Everyday triggers and rewiring the brain
26:00 Leaving unsafe situations and setting firm boundaries
29:00 How sobriety changes friendships
32:00 The chance meeting that brought Heather and Zoe together
40:00 Dating, relapse and protecting early recovery
44:00 Sober intimacy, dissociation and learning to trust the body
49:00 Day-one advice and how to name a craving

Girl, Undrunk Links

Instagram

SIS Links

💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen

📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email

📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram

🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast

📸 Kathleen’s Instagram

Can unresolved emotional pain influence alcohol cravings, addictive behaviors, and the way the body experiences stress? In this episode of Sisters in Sobriety, Sonia speaks with Dr. Bradley Nelson, holistic physician and bestselling author of The Emotion Code, The Body Code, and The Heart Code, about his approach to identifying and releasing what he calls “trapped emotions.”

Why can someone understand a harmful pattern and still feel unable to change it? Could addiction be less about the substance itself and more about an attempt to soothe emotional pain? Dr. Nelson shares his perspective on the subconscious mind, biofeedback, muscle testing, alcohol cravings, and the “heart wall”—a protective emotional barrier he believes can form after heartbreak, grief, trauma, or loss.

The conversation explores how emotions may go unprocessed, how present-day triggers can connect with earlier experiences, and why Dr. Nelson views symptoms as messages rather than root causes. He demonstrates the sway test, explains the Emotion Code chart, and describes his process for narrowing down an emotion, deciding whether more context is needed, and using a magnet or hand movement to release it. These practices are presented as Dr. Nelson’s energy-healing framework and are not a substitute for evidence-based medical, mental health, or addiction care.

Dr. Nelson also opens up about the childhood experiences that shaped his path, including a serious case of measles, kidney disease, and an early encounter with holistic practitioners in rural Montana. He traces the journey from computer programmer to chiropractor and shares stories that led him to connect physical symptoms, heartbreak, compulsive behavior, and emotional healing—including accounts involving chronic pain, food cravings, and alcohol use.

This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources.

00:00 — Dr. Bradley Nelson and the concept of trapped emotions
02:00 — Childhood healing experiences and belief in a higher power
05:00 — From computer programming to the healing arts
06:00 — Searching for the roots of patients’ symptoms
07:00 — Addiction as a response to emotional pain
09:00 — The subconscious mind as the body’s internal computer
11:00 — Muscle testing and yes-or-no biofeedback
13:00 — How emotions may become “trapped” in the body
16:00 — Emotional baggage, anxiety, PTSD, and addictive behavior
18:00 — The overflowing-glass metaphor for emotional pain
20:00 — How the “heart wall” may relate to addiction
22:00 — Why the heart is viewed as more than a pump
26:00 — A patient story connecting heartbreak and chronic neck pain
29:00 — Introducing the ring-in-ring method and sway test
36:00 — Using the Emotion Code chart to identify an emotion
38:00 — Closing an emotional “open loop”
42:00 — How emotional baggage may drive cravings
45:00 — A story about alcohol urges and releasing the heart wall
48:00 — True healing versus symptom relief
51:00 — A small next step and where to learn more

Dr. Bradley's Links

Instagram

Website

SIS Links

💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen

📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email

📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram

🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast

📸 Kathleen’s Instagram

Addiction treatment has not always been designed with women in mind—and that can profoundly shape how women experience recovery. In this episode of Sisters in Sobriety, Sonia is joined by Dr. Stephanie S. Covington, internationally recognized clinician, author, and pioneer in addiction and trauma treatment, whose groundbreaking work includes A Woman’s Way Through the Twelve Steps, Helping Women Recover, Beyond Trauma, and Awaken Your Sexuality.

Why do traditional addiction treatment and Twelve Step programs sometimes fail to reflect women’s actual experiences? How are trauma, relationships, sexuality, shame, and addiction connected? Dr. Covington examines why recovery can look different for women, what conventional relapse prevention may overlook, and why community and connection are so essential. She also discusses the gaps in addiction treatment within jails and prisons, the importance of continuity of care after incarceration, and why she prefers the term “criminal legal system” over “criminal justice system.”

The conversation breaks down the relationship between childhood trauma, genetics, emotional development, substance use, and relapse. Dr. Covington explains when trauma and addiction may need to be treated simultaneously, the difference between trauma-informed, trauma-responsive, and trauma-specific care, and the powerful shift from asking “What’s wrong with you?” to “What happened to you?” She also offers a gender-responsive perspective on the Twelve Steps, reframing concepts like the Fourth Step in ways that can reduce shame and help women see themselves more clearly in recovery.

Sonia also gets personal about working the Twelve Steps nearly nine years into sobriety, feeling disconnected from the male-centered language of traditional AA literature, dating and having sex sober for the first time, and navigating conversations around “Cali sober” and mindful substance use. Dr. Covington shares her own early experiment with moderation, why she has no desire to test whether she could drink again, and a surprisingly simple “green beans” test that can reveal just how much power alcohol or another substance has in someone’s life.

This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources.

Highlights

00:01:00 – Meet Dr. Stephanie Covington and the personal recovery story behind her pioneering work

00:02:20 – What early addiction treatment and Twelve Step programs got wrong about women

00:03:35 – Why women-only recovery spaces can create greater safety and vulnerability

00:04:00 – Addiction, incarceration, and the lack of real treatment inside jails and prisons

00:06:00 – Medication-assisted treatment, Twelve Step access, and what is missing behind bars

00:07:00 – Why recovery community can be critical for successful reentry after incarceration

00:08:35 – Sonia shares that she is working the Twelve Steps nearly nine years into sobriety

00:09:20 – Why A Woman’s Way Through the Twelve Steps reframes recovery through women’s voices

00:10:00 – Reimagining the Fourth Step as a compassionate “spring cleaning” of the self

00:14:00 – Should AA literature change, and why Dr. Covington focuses on the Twelve Steps over the Big Book

00:16:00 – The Twelve Steps as tools for living, not simply tools for stopping drinking

00:17:00 – Why meetings, connection, and community strengthen long-term recovery

00:18:30 – How trauma and addiction become intertwined and why genetics is only part of the picture

00:21:00 – When trauma and addiction should be treated together rather than sequentially

00:23:30 – The three major relapse risks for women: trauma, relationships, and sexual issues

00:25:30 – Why childhood trauma can have a particularly profound developmental impact

00:28:00 – Big-T versus little-t trauma—and why comparing trauma can be misleading

00:30:00 – Relationships, sexuality, shame, and the overlooked realities of women’s recovery

00:33:00 – Sonia opens up about dating, intimacy, and having sex sober for the first time

00:37:00 – Trauma-informed, trauma-responsive, and trauma-specific care explained

00:39:00 – The origin and power of shifting from “What’s wrong with you?” to “What happened to you?”

00:44:00 – Cali sober, switching substances, moderation, and whether addiction can be “transcended”

00:49:30 – Dr. Covington shares her own failed experiment with having “just one” drink

00:50:30 – The 30-day experiment and the unforgettable “green beans” test for evaluating alcohol’s role

Dr. Covington's Links

https://www.stephaniecovington.com/

https://www.instagram.com/stephaniecovingtonofficial/

SIS Links

💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen

📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email

📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram

🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast

📸 Kathleen’s Instagram

Addiction can gradually disconnect people from the ordinary pleasures, relationships and experiences that once made life meaningful. In this episode of Sisters in Sobriety, Sonia and Kathleen help make the science of addiction recovery practical and accessible with Dr. Eric Garland, a clinical researcher, psychotherapist and leading expert in mind-body therapies for addiction and chronic pain. Dr. Garland is the developer of Mindfulness-Oriented Recovery Enhancement, or MORE, an evidence-based treatment that combines mindfulness, cognitive behavioural therapy and positive psychology.

Why do alcohol and other addictive substances begin to feel more rewarding than everyday life? How are addiction, chronic pain, depression, anxiety and trauma connected? Dr. Garland explains how substance use changes the brain’s dopamine and reward systems, why cravings can become automatic, and how mindfulness can create a pause between an urge and an action. He also discusses relapse prevention, emotional pain, moderation, harm reduction and the role of meditation in 12-step recovery.

The conversation breaks down the three pillars of MORE: mindfulness, cognitive reappraisal and savoring. Dr. Garland explains how mindfulness strengthens attention and awareness, how reappraisal helps people examine the consequences of their choices, and how savoring retrains the brain to experience pleasure from ordinary moments. He also shares techniques for observing cravings, “playing the tape forward,” rebuilding natural reward and using the STOP practice before engaging in an addictive behaviour.

Sonia reflects on how rediscovering simple pleasures and developing new hobbies contributed to a profound identity shift in her own sobriety. Dr. Garland shares how his personal mindfulness practice shaped his career, why recovery can involve transcending an addiction-based identity, and how people can reconnect with meaning, joy and a version of themselves that is larger than any craving, painful feeling or past behaviour.

This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources.

Highlights

00:00 Dr. Eric Garland and the MORE approach
02:00 How mindfulness shaped Dr. Garland’s career
04:10 Addiction, chronic pain and the loss of natural reward
07:00 Clinical research and the effectiveness of MORE
08:00 Reducing relapse, cravings, pain and emotional distress
10:00 Why people use substances to escape pain
12:00 Mindfulness, reappraisal and savoring
15:00 How addiction hijacks the dopamine reward system
18:20 Practical ways to relearn pleasure in recovery
20:00 The mindfulness loop and strengthening attention
23:00 Recognizing triggers and automatic cravings
25:00 Zooming into the physical experience of a craving
28:00 Playing the tape forward through cognitive reappraisal
30:20 Mindfulness, pain and emotional bypassing
32:00 What traditional addiction treatments may be missing
34:00 Finding reward in coffee, birdsong and everyday moments
40:00 Sobriety, identity change and self-transcendence
43:00 MORE, the 12 steps and responding to a lapse
46:00 Harm reduction, moderation and opioid treatment
49:00 The STOP practice for interrupting automatic behaviour
53:00 Expanding MORE through training, community and technology

Dr. Garland's Links

www.moretherapy.com
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/more-therapy/id6761741739
 
SIS Links

💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen

📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email

📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram

🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast

📸 Kathleen’s Instagram