Episode 42 | "Not My Church": Plausible Deniability in High-Control Systems
In this revealing and emotionally rich episode of Cults and the Culting of America, Cynthia Williams joins hosts Scot Loyd and Daniella Mestyanek Young to unpack her journey through—and out of—the United Pentecostal Church International (UPCI). Cynthia shares how, like many others, she once believed that her local church was different. The rules were strict, yes, but they felt spiritually justified—until the cracks began to show. As Cynthia puts it, the realization came slowly: “I think it's probably just in the last two years… that I finally was like, wait a minute, I think I was in a cult.” That moment of clarity is a turning point in the episode, as the conversation explores how UPCI and similar groups protect themselves through plausible deniability. “Not my church,” people say—oblivious or unwilling to confront the broader systemic harm. Cynthia describes how Bible college exposed her to both a deeper version of indoctrination and—paradoxically—the seeds of her exit. Through theology classes and critical thinking challenges, she began questioning the very doctrines that once gave her purpose. The episode also dives into her experience witnessing the tragic death of a teenage girl at Bible school—a loss that the church quickly co-opted into a martyrdom narrative, silencing Cynthia’s voice and rewriting the truth. Alongside moments of grief and spiritual disillusionment, the hosts discuss cult tactics like toxic positivity, spiritual bypassing, gendered control, and the recurring pattern of falling into other high-control environments even after leaving religion. From the military to corporate America, Cynthia’s story traces how these systems echo one another—and how healing requires naming those echoes for what they are. With warmth, honesty, and shared survivor wisdom, this episode is a candid look at what it means to say, “Maybe it was my church after all.” Daniella's Links: You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured For more info on me: Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8 Daniella’s Tiktok: Knitting Cult Lady Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_ Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8 Other Podcasts Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women Scot's TikTok @thescotloyd Haley's Tiktok @nuancedmasculinities Key Take-Aways 🚩 On Cult Dynamics in UPCI: Rules varied by pastor but enforced absolute obedience, reinforcing the illusion of autonomy while maintaining tight control. Women were subjected to extreme modesty standards, with the specifics often shifting—creating confusion and deep internalization of shame and obedience. Plausible deniability ("not my church") was used to disguise systemic problems across UPCI. 👩🦰 On Gender & Power: Women in UPCI were expected to be either angelic “saints” or demonized “Jezebels”—no in-between. Women showing independence or intellect were often ostracized or tightly policed. Cynthia’s racial identity and outsider status gave her marginal freedom to step outside strict gender molds—but also made her invisible in some ways. 🧠 On Deconstruction & Identity: Bible school inadvertently helped Cynthia develop critical thinking, ultimately aiding her exit. Leaving the group meant not just losing community, but also certainty, purpose, and a framework for meaning. Like many ex-cult members, Cynthia found herself repeatedly drawn to similarly high-control environments even after leaving UPCI. 💥 On Trauma & Abuse: The murder of a student Cynthia mentored was mishandled by the church, which spun the event into a martyrdom narrative—silencing Cynthia and distorting the truth. This cover-up became a breaking point, highlighting the institution’s willingness to exploit tragedy for control and propaganda. Cynthia shares how old coping strategies like breaking into church songs still emerge under stress—signs of deep conditioning and dissociation. 🧵 On Community & Healing: A strong, emotionally safe partnership is key in Cynthia’s healing journey. Daniella highlights the concept of being an “invisible immigrant”—growing up in an insular religious world without cultural references or grounding in the outside world. They celebrate the comfort and solidarity found in the “ex-cult sisterhood”—a chosen family of people who get it. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Cult Experiences 03:10 Personal Journeys in the United Pentecostal Church 06:01 Expectations and Restrictions for Women 08:46 Identifying Cult-like Behaviors 11:54 The Role of Education in Cult Awareness 15:05 Navigating Gender Dynamics in Cults 17:45 The Impact of Nostalgia and Shared Experiences 20:59 Emotional Healing and Reflection 23:57 Coping with Life After Leaving a Cult 30:20 Revisiting Trauma and Dissociation 31:55 Toxic Positivity in High-Control Groups 34:14 Tragedy and Manipulation: The Church's Narrative 39:40 The Impact of Violence on Faith Communities 43:23 Identity Crisis After Leaving the Cult 50:07 Life After the Cult: Finding New Paths Produced by Haley Phillips
USA