Cults and the Culting of America

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, Daniella sits down with political scientist Thomas Kelly to revisit one of the most foundational ideas in cult studies: cognitive dissonance. Their conversation centers on Leon Festinger's famous book When Prophecy Fails, which is often cited to explain why cult members double down on beliefs after predictions don't come true. Thomas walks through his research uncovering serious methodological and ethical problems with that original study, arguing that the historical record actually shows the opposite of what Festinger claimed. Rather than reinforcing belief, failed prophecy most often leads to attrition, disillusionment, and collapse. Together, Daniella and Thomas explore why this misunderstanding has shaped decades of cult research, how survivor voices were sidelined during the "cult wars," and why failed prophecies tend to wound groups far more than scholars once believed. The discussion expands into broader questions about coercive control, survivor testimony, ethical research methods, media involvement, and why people want prophecies to come true. The episode ultimately challenges listeners to rethink how we explain belief, persistence, and exit in high-control groups—and to be more skeptical of tidy psychological theories that ignore lived experience. Daniella's Links: Preorder for Culting of America: The Culting of America PRE-SALE (SHIPS BY JANUARY 20, 2026) – Knitting Cult Lady Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:  From Bookshop.org Uncultured Autographed: Connect with Daniella on social media  TikTok Patreon Instagram Youtube Other Podcasts Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women Scot's Socials TikTok:  @thescotloyd Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thescotloyd Haley's Tiktok @nuancedmasculinities Key Takeaways When Prophecy Fails is deeply flawed and misrepresents what actually happened in Dorothy Martin's UFO cult. Historical evidence shows most groups do not grow stronger after failed prophecy; they fracture or dissolve. Festinger and his team interfered with the group they were studying, compromising the research. Cognitive dissonance as a concept does not stand or fall on this study, but the case should no longer be used as proof of belief "doubling down." Survivor voices were largely ignored during the development of cult scholarship, especially during the cult wars. Failed prophecy outcomes depend heavily on whether the prophecy is tied to a single charismatic authority or a broader interpretive framework (like scripture). Media attention played a significant role in shaping the cult's behavior before and after the prophecy failed. People in cults often want the prophecy to come true—it represents hope, purpose, and meaning. Coercive control is better understood through tactics and dynamics than rigid definitions of "cult." Studying real-world "natural experiments" may offer better insight into belief and compliance than lab psychology studies. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Cognitive Dissonance and Cults 01:21 Exploring 'When Prophecy Fails' and Its Implications 03:27 Critique of Festinger's Research and Methodology 06:28 Key Figures in the Study and Their Influence 07:56 Patterns in Cult Behavior and Promises of Space Travel 09:43 Failed Prophecies and Group Survival 10:56 Qualitative vs. Quantitative Research in Cult Studies 13:19 Ethical Considerations in Cult Research 17:55 The Complexity of Defining Cults 20:48 Cognitive Dissonance: Current Perspectives and Future Directions 27:44 The Quest for Belief: Cults and Prophecy 29:11 Media Influence on Cult Dynamics 30:31 After the Prophecy: Coping with Disappointment 32:24 The Psychology of Hope and Belief 34:06 Cognitive Dissonance: Understanding Belief Systems 36:59 Rethinking Cognitive Dissonance Studies 39:54 The Complexity of Cult Membership 43:44 Humanizing Cult Experiences 45:56 Personal Reflections on Cults and Immunity 51:14 Future Directions in Cult Research

In this episode, guest Ara Jade shares her seven-year experience inside a high-control religious group adjacent to the Hebrew Israelite movement, known as the Israel of God. She recounts how she was drawn in through family influence, biblical study practices, and a strong sense of community, only to later encounter manipulation, racism-based doctrine, misogyny, surveillance, fear tactics, and emotional control. Ara describes specific red flags, including purity rules for women, the weaponization of Black identity, pressure to obey male authority, and her arranged-like marriage. She explains how her awakening unfolded through personal losses, marital betrayal, and finally being dismissed by leadership when seeking protection. Ara concludes with thoughtful advice for people questioning their involvement in high-control groups, emphasizing listening to intuition, seeking outside perspectives, asking hard questions, and being gentle with oneself during the process of leaving and grieving. Daniella's Links: Preorder for Culting of America: The Culting of America PRE-SALE (SHIPS BY JANUARY 20, 2026) – Knitting Cult Lady Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:  From Bookshop.org Uncultured Autographed: Connect with Daniella on social media  TikTok Patreon Instagram Youtube Other Podcasts Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women Scot's Socials TikTok:  @thescotloyd Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thescotloyd Haley's Tiktok @nuancedmasculinities Key Takeaways The Israel of God mirrored Hebrew Israelite theology but distanced itself publicly while maintaining similar doctrines. Black identity and biblical narratives were used to create belonging while simultaneously controlling members. Fear-based teachings (hell, end times, impurity) played a key role in keeping members obedient. Women were subjected to strict purity laws, gender hierarchy, and were often treated as property for marriage. The community structure relied heavily on surveillance, gossip, and punitive social consequences. Ara experienced pressure to marry men she did not choose, reflecting the group's patriarchal control. Her father leaving the group, her grandmother passing away, and her husband's infidelity created a tipping point. Church leaders minimized abuse, discouraged outside help, and expected spiritual authority over personal safety. Leaving the group resulted in shunning but also clarity and relief. Ara encourages listeners to trust gut feelings, seek outside information, and allow themselves compassion while exiting. Missing aspects of the community after leaving is normal and part of healing. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Ara Jade's Journey 03:08 Understanding Hebrew Israelites and Their Beliefs 05:43 Ara's Experience with the Israel of God 08:33 Initial Attraction and Community Building 11:12 Red Flags and Cognitive Dissonance 13:56 The Weaponization of Fear and Control 16:30 Identity Stripping and Community Dynamics 18:54 The Role of Forgiveness in Manipulation 27:14 The Toxic Environment of the Cult 29:50 Questioning Beliefs and Doctrines 35:02 The Impact of Relationships and Marriage 39:32 Realizations and Leaving the Cult 46:12 Advice for Others in Similar Situations Produced by Haley Phillips, Meghan Picmann, and Lizy Freudmann

This episode of Cults and the Culting of America features guest Emily Hulen, a massage therapist and trauma coach who grew up in Christian Science and later navigated additional cult-like environments. Emily describes the core beliefs of Christian Science — including the denial of physical reality, rejection of medical care, and heavy reliance on prayer as a means of erasing mortal experience. She shares harrowing examples of untreated medical issues in her family and her own childhood injuries and illnesses that went unaddressed. Emily traces her early cognitive dissonance, beginning around age ten, as she started comparing Christian Science ideas with Greek mythology and noticing inconsistencies. Her family's reaction to her questioning led to increased control, isolation, and punishment. She also explains overlapping dynamics of a family cult, with her mother acting as a controlling, narcissistic leader. Emily describes eventually leaving home, the challenges of early adulthood, and the emergence of PTSD symptoms in her romantic relationship. The episode highlights her healing journey through therapy modalities including CBT, DBT, IFS (Internal Family Systems), EMDR, and somatic work. Emily emphasizes how trauma shows up physically, how therapy helped her reclaim a sense of self, and how she now helps others through trauma-informed bodywork and coaching. Daniella and Scott connect Emily's experiences to broader patterns across cults and high-control systems (including the military), highlighting shared mechanisms such as intense rhetoric, personal blame, dissociation, and thought-terminating clichés. The episode closes with information about Emily's work and her perspective on reclaiming identity after trauma. Emily's Links: https://www.holisticechoes.com Contact: [email protected] Daniella's Links: Preorder for Culting of America: The Culting of America PRE-SALE (SHIPS BY JANUARY 20, 2026) – Knitting Cult Lady Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:  From Bookshop.org Uncultured Autographed: Connect with Daniella on social media  TikTok Patreon Instagram Youtube Other Podcasts Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women Scot's Socials TikTok:  @thescotloyd KEY TAKEAWAYS Christian Science denies physical reality, framing illness, injury, and even death as illusions created by "mortal mind." Medical neglect is common within the group; Emily and her family suffered severe, untreated medical conditions as a result. Prayer functions as a "window cleaning" practice — not communicating with God, but reaffirming perfection and denying suffering. Children are taught to dissociate from physical experiences, creating lifelong structural dissociation patterns. Emily began questioning the belief system around age ten, aided by secular homeschooling materials and internet access. Her family reacted with increased control, isolation, and policing of thought, including banning books and restricting time outdoors. Emily's home also functioned as a family cult, with her mother exerting authoritarian control and exploiting her children's labor. Leaving her parents' home sparked PTSD symptoms, especially around conflict, anger, and household dynamics. Trauma responses mirror old patterns, such as scanning for danger, over-responsibility, flinching, or misinterpreting neutral situations as threats. Therapy — particularly IFS, EMDR, and somatic modalities — helped Emily repair trauma by meeting unmet needs and separating past from present. Cult survivors often struggle with self-trust, identity, and fears of being seen as "frauds." Daniella and Scott note that cult dynamics and military culture share structural similarities, including high pressure, emotional suppression, and elevated rhetoric. Healing involves reclaiming agency, challenging old wiring, and recognizing one's worth and capability. Emily now helps others through trauma-focused bodywork and coaching, emphasizing that expertise can come from lived experience and extensive independent study. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background of Emily Hulen 01:55 Understanding Christian Science and Its Impact 05:36 Personal Experiences with Medical Neglect 09:24 Dissociation and Cult Ideology 11:14 Red Flags and Awakening 16:02 Family Dynamics and Leaving the Cult 20:49 The Decline of Christian Science 26:40 Reflections on Healing and Moving Forward 28:28 The Impact of Medical Neglect in Cults 30:44 Healing from Cult Trauma 35:08 Navigating Relationships Post-Cult 39:44 Therapeutic Journeys and Self-Discovery 44:52 Integrating Past Trauma into Present Life 49:29 The Role of Education and Expertise in Healing Produced by Haley Phillips, Meghan Picmann, and Lizy Freudmann

In this episode, Dr. Cynthia Brown discusses her journey in women's health and fertility, emphasizing the importance of understanding these topics beyond conventional medicine. The conversation explores the Maha movement and its impact on women's health, cultural perspectives on pregnancy and motherhood, and the dangers of extreme birthing practices. The discussion also touches on the romanticization of pain in motherhood, the need for community support in parenting, and the intersection of gender and medical care. Dr. Brown highlights the boy crisis and the influence of cult mentality on health choices, advocating for transparency in women's health discussions to empower women and improve outcomes. Dr. Cyntia's Links https://www.kopelahealth.com/ https://www.tiktok.com/@drcyntiabrownfertility https://www.threads.com/@dr.cyntiabrown Daniella's Links: Preorder for Culting of America: The Culting of America PRE-SALE (SHIPS BY JANUARY 20, 2026) – Knitting Cult Lady Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:  From Bookshop.org Uncultured Autographed: Connect with Daniella on social media  TikTok Patreon Instagram Youtube Other Podcasts Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women Scot's Socials TikTok:  @thescotloyd Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thescotloyd Haley's Tiktok @nuancedmasculinities Takeaways Dr. Cynthia Brown emphasizes the importance of understanding women's health beyond conventional medicine. The Maha movement often leads to misinformation about health and fertility. Cultural beliefs significantly influence perceptions of pregnancy and motherhood. Extreme birthing practices can pose serious risks to mothers and babies. Pain and suffering are often romanticized in discussions about motherhood. Community support is crucial for effective parenting and mental health. The boy crisis highlights the need for better understanding of young men's issues. Cults often promote a distrust of medical care, impacting health choices. Transparency in women's health discussions can empower better decision-making. The conversation around parenting must include discussions about systemic issues. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Women's Health and Personal Journey 02:32 The Maha Movement and Its Impact on Women's Health 05:29 Cultural Perspectives on Pregnancy and Motherhood 08:20 The Dangers of Extreme Birthing Practices 11:19 The Role of Pain and Suffering in Motherhood 14:13 The Intersection of Personal Experience and Medical Advocacy 16:58 The Systemic Issues in Maternal Health 19:42 Community Support and the Modern Parenting Crisis 22:36 The Cult of Suffering and Perfectionism 25:14 The Search for Answers in a Complex Medical Landscape 28:14 Conclusion: Balancing Traditional and Alternative Approaches 34:59 The Culture of Pain and Control 38:14 Toxic Masculinity and Medical Care 41:46 The Skinny White Woman Concept 46:25 Cults, Children, and Control 50:18 The Boy Crisis and Gender Dynamics 55:20 Raising Good Children in a Troubling World Produced by Haley Phillips, Meghan Picmann, and Lizy Freudmann  

Content Warnings: Sexual assault and child sexual abuse Sex trafficking and the Epstein list Cult dynamics, coercive control, and brainwashing White supremacy, racism, xenophobia, and fascism Historical violence, genocide, Nazism, U.S. colonial atrocities, police violence Political extremism, MAGA, Trump administration actions Death, including anticipated death of a political figure Domestic extremism, ICE raids, and militarized responses Cult-related childhood trauma and labor camp environments In this episode Daniella ("Knitting Cult Lady") and historian Amanda Nelson dive into the deep historical currents beneath modern American politics, arguing that the chaos of the Trump era isn't unprecedented but deeply rooted in American history. They examine how panic, white exceptionalism, and a lack of historical education shape public reactions to authoritarian behavior. The conversation highlights parallels between MAGA and cult structures, emphasizing how "mission collapse" (such as the refusal to release the Epstein documents) destabilizes the movement. They explore how white Americans often misunderstand authoritarianism because they have been insulated from state violence, and how whiteness itself is a tool that can be used both to maintain oppressive systems and to dismantle them. They discuss protest strategy, noting that mass participation by everyday "normies"—especially white women—has historically been one of the few things authoritarian regimes respond to, even during Nazi Germany. The two discuss the limits of political institutions, the psychology of cult disengagement, and the likelihood that Trump himself will avoid legal accountability. They explore whether JD Vance would be "worse," ultimately concluding he would be more strategic but less chaotically dangerous. The episode closes with reflections on justice, narcissism, and the strange, painful reality that cult leaders often die unpunished, even as their followers suffer. Amanda's Links: tiktok instagram threads youtube facebook Daniella's Links: Preorder for Culting of America: The Culting of America PRE-SALE (SHIPS BY JANUARY 20, 2026) – Knitting Cult Lady Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:  From Bookshop.org Uncultured Autographed: Connect with Daniella on social media  TikTok Patreon Instagram Youtube Other Podcasts Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women Scot's Socials TikTok:  @thescotloyd Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thescotloyd Haley's Tiktok @nuancedmasculinities Key Takeaways Panic feels productive but is politically ineffective; organized, sustained action is what matters. White American panic often reflects unfamiliarity with state violence experienced by others. U.S. authoritarianism has deep historical precedents, not just recent ones. Americans default to Nazi comparisons due to limited education and universal patterns of authoritarianism. National exceptionalism is a major red flag for cult-like thinking. White women have historically not shown up in protest movements despite their cultural protection and organizing power. Regimes often back down when "normies," especially white women, show up en masse to protest. MAGA operates like a cult with a charismatic leader, transcendent mission, and predictable collapse pattern. Trump's refusal to release the Epstein files broke the core promise of "drain the swamp," damaging the movement's internal stability. People rarely leave cults with dramatic awakenings; exits are quiet and painful. White women can use their social protection to shield more vulnerable groups during protests. The U.S. population size and armed citizenry make totalitarian consolidation unstable and unsustainable. JD Vance would be strategically dangerous but less chaotic and impulsive than Trump. Cult leaders often avoid punishment; public anticipation of their downfall may be its own form of consequence. The patriarchy is deeply entrenched, but mass exposure of crimes (like Epstein files) could destabilize political power. Lack of historical literacy prevents people from recognizing authoritarian patterns. "Normie-led" protests are historically what end authoritarian pushes. The MAGA movement is fracturing due to mission collapse and internal contradictions. The conversation emphasizes harm reduction rather than fantasies of quick political salvation. Mass organization, not despair, is the path to meaningful opposition. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to American History and Culture 02:48 Understanding Panic and Historical Precedents 05:52 The Role of Race and Identity in American History 08:32 The Puritans and American Exceptionalism 11:28 Xenophobia and the American Identity 14:06 Protests and the Role of White Women 17:10 The Complexity of American Values 19:55 Cults, Authoritarianism, and American Politics 22:46 The Power of Collective Action 25:45 Conclusion and Call to Action 29:42 The Role of White Allies in Activism 34:03 The Power of Collective Action 36:45 The Epstein List and Its Implications 41:26 The Dichotomy of Child Protection in America 47:47 Political Perspectives on Leadership Changes Produced by Haley Phillips, Meghan Picmann, and Lizy Freudmann