The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria

How do we determine when a learner has truly mastered a skill?
In behavior analysis, performance criteria such as "80% correct across two sessions" have become nearly ubiquitous. Yet despite their widespread use, many practitioners may be surprised to learn that these criteria have relatively little direct empirical support.
In this episode, I'm joined by Drs. Sarah Richling and Dr. Daniel Fienup to discuss the history, research, and practical implications of mastery criteria in applied behavior analysis. Drawing on their independent lines of research, Sarah and Dan examine how different criterion levels influence skill maintenance and why behavior analysts should think carefully about what constitutes meaningful mastery.
We begin by defining the terminology surrounding mastery and performance criteria and explore several important dimensions that are often overlooked, including criterion level, criterion frequency, supplementary variables, and units of analysis.
The conversation then turns to the origins of the commonly used 80% and 90% thresholds. Although these criteria appear throughout ABA training and practice, Sarah and Dan explain that their widespread adoption may owe more to tradition than to empirical validation.
We also discuss findings from their research comparing 50%, 80%, and 90% mastery criteria. Their studies suggest that higher performance criteria may produce stronger maintenance outcomes under some conditions, but they emphasize that practitioners should resist the temptation to adopt a new universal rule.
Along the way, we explore:
The distinction between mastery criteria and performance criteria.
Why "80% correct" became so common in ABA.
Historical influences from early behavior analytic and educational research.
Research comparing 50%, 80%, and 90% mastery criteria.
The relationship between mastery criteria and long-term maintenance.
Why some behaviors may require near-perfect performance.
The importance of considering the natural environment when setting performance standards.
How units of analysis can affect instructional decision making.
The risks of relying on aggregated data when teaching multiple skills.
Generalization, maintenance, and supplementary variables.
Lessons from Precision Teaching regarding fluency and functional mastery.
Why performance criteria should be individualized rather than universally prescribed.
Research opportunities for practitioners and graduate students interested in instructional design.
Throughout the discussion, Sarah and Dan make a compelling case for moving beyond inherited rules and toward a more individualized, evidence-based approach to instructional decision making.
Whether you're designing skill acquisition programs, supervising trainees, or simply curious about the assumptions that shape everyday practice, this episode offers a thoughtful examination of one of the most common—and least questioned—features of behavior analytic instruction.
About the Guests
Dr. Sarah Richling
Sarah Richling is a Clinical Associate Professor at Auburn University and serves as Director of Auburn's Master's Program in Applied Behavior Analysis. She has more than two decades of experience as a practitioner, researcher, and educator, with interests spanning instructional design, performance criteria, and effective teaching practices.
Dr. Daniel Fienup
Dan Fienup is a behavior analyst and researcher whose work has focused on instructional variables that affect skill acquisition, maintenance, and educational outcomes. His research on mastery criteria has helped clarify the relationship between performance standards and long-term retention of learned skills.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode
Fienup and Carr (2021). The use of performance criteria for determining "mastery" in discrete-trial instruction: A call for research.
Fuller and Fienup (2018). A Preliminary Analysis of Mastery Criterion Level: Effects on Response Maintenance.
Richling, Fienup, and Wong (2023). Establishing Performance Criteria for Skill Mastery.
VanDevander, Warner, Kazemi, and Famie (2023). Creating a reference range of common problem behaviors and replacement behaviors in neurotypical children.
Vladescu, Gureghian, Goodwyn, and Campanaro (2020). Comparing skill acquisition under different stimulus set sizes with children with autism spectrum disorder: A replication.
Conditioning Books as Reinforcers: How to Increase Reading Engagement in Young Children: Inside JABA 26.
Sponsor Shoutouts!
Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
Safety-Care is a crisis prevention and de-escalation training program designed for professionals who support individuals with challenging behavior. More than 300,000 professionals have been trained in Safety-Care's evidence-based approach to recognizing early warning signs and responding with confidence. To learn more, visit QBS.com/podcast.
Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. 
HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.
The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!

In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Jenny Demark, Conrad Leung, and Dr. Linda Reinstein to talk about their new book, Complex Kids, Simple Solutions: How to Raise Resilient, Confident, Likable Kids.
These are clinicians who've spent years working directly with families dealing with everything from emotion regulation challenges, to childhood anxiety, to severe behavioral challenges, and what I liked about this conversation is that it stayed extremely practical throughout.
We spent a lot of time talking about their "Prepare, Teach, Motivate" framework, and how parents and professionals can think more systematically about helping kids build resilience and coping skills rather than just reacting to challenging behavior in the moment.
Along the way, we discussed:
Why some children require more intentional and consistent parenting approaches than others.

How to build stronger relationships with kids who engage in challenging behavior.

The importance of following a child's interests to create meaningful connection.

Screen time struggles and how to reduce device dependence without escalating conflict.

Emotion regulation strategies for children with frequent outbursts.

Why many young children struggle to generalize skills learned in traditional talk therapy.

The role of parental accommodation in maintaining anxiety and avoidance.

Practical approaches to school refusal and helping kids gradually face difficult situations.

Why parent coaching is often more effective than focusing exclusively on the child in therapy.

The importance of self-care for parents and practitioners alike.

I think this episode will be especially valuable for behavior analysts, school professionals, clinicians, and of course parents trying to support kids with more complex behavioral and emotional needs.
Related links and resources:
Complex Kids, Simple Solutions: How to Raise Resilient, Confident, Likable Kids.

Child Solutions.

Session 266: What is Primary Care Behavioral Pediatrics?

Session 300: Chronic Absenteeism and School Refusal.

Session 84: The Front Lines of Parenting.

Session 10: Pat Friman on BoysTown, Parenting, and More!

Session 36: Practical Parent Training Approaches.

Childhood Empowered (a must-follow parenting IG account!).

Sponsoring this episode:
CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. 
The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!
The Behavioral Toolbox International. Check out our courses for school-based and other behavioral professionals, including our newest one, Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In.

In Session 331, I sat down with Dr. Ben Seifert to talk about some of the most challenging — and important — work happening in applied behavior analysis today: supporting individuals with severe problem behavior.
Ben shared his journey into the field, beginning with his early experiences at Lindamood-Bell and later at BACA under the mentorship of Carl Sundberg and others who helped shape his clinical perspective. Along the way, we discussed what originally drew him toward working with clients who many providers often avoid, and why he remains deeply committed to ensuring that all individuals have access to meaningful, compassionate support.
We spent a good amount of time talking about trends in the ABA marketplace, including the growing difficulty families face when trying to access services for older learners or individuals with significant behavioral challenges. Ben offered thoughtful commentary on how insurance systems, staffing pressures, and private equity may be influencing the types of services many organizations are willing to provide.
Ben also shared several fascinating clinical stories that highlight the importance of long-term relationship building, careful observation, and interdisciplinary collaboration. One particularly memorable discussion centered around learning to identify subtle behavioral indicators of physical discomfort that would have been easy to miss in a traditional assessment framework.
Toward the second half of the conversation, we shifted into supervision, staff training, and burnout prevention. Ben made a compelling point that supervisors should think of new staff members almost like new learners — people who require shaping, reinforcement, feedback, and support rather than immediate criticism when challenges arise. We also talked openly about clinician mental health, psychological safety within organizations, and the importance of creating environments where people can ask for help.
Finally, Ben shared advice for newly certified BCBAs, including the importance of collaboration, humility, and learning from the frontline staff who often know clients best.
This was a thoughtful and deeply practical conversation that I think clinicians, supervisors, and graduate students alike will get a lot out of.
In this episode, we discuss:
Ben's path into behavior analysis
Early mentorship experiences at BACA
His early career experiences at the Central Texas Autism Center
What led him to found Collaborate ABA
Why severe problem behavior services are becoming harder to access
Insurance and marketplace pressures affecting clinical care
The importance of interdisciplinary collaboration
Clinical case examples involving subtle behavioral indicators
Long-term relationship building with clients and families
Supervision strategies for supporting RBTs and frontline staff
Staff burnout and mental health
Advice for newly certified BCBAs
Reach out to Ben on LinkedIn, or follow Collaborate ABA in Instagram!
Sponsor shoutouts!
Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
The 2026 Behavior Supports in Schools Conference. This conference is designed for the educators, administrators, and staff who support students' behavioral health, social-emotional needs, and behavioral challenges. Both in-person and online attendees will have the opportunity to network with colleagues and learn innovative, evidence-based approaches to supporting children in school settings. It's taking place in Tumwater, WA and virtually via BehaviorLive on 5/29/26. I have the honor of presenting the keynote address, and there are many other great topics that will be discussed throughout the day, so I hope to see you there!
CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. 
HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.
The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!

In this episode, I'm joined by Drs. Brandon May and Maggie Pavone, and Kate Heersink to talk about how we can better support healthier lifestyles for individuals with developmental disabilities.
We start by digging into how each of them came to this work. Maggie shares some early experiences working as a direct support professional, where she began to notice patterns between food-related variables and challenging behavior. Brandon talks about coming into behavior analysis through the health and fitness world, and seeing firsthand how difficult it was to support individuals in building healthier routines without a clear behavioral framework. Kate adds her perspective from working with individuals with brain injury, where the connection between physical health and overall functioning is hard to ignore.
We also spend some time acknowledging that this isn't entirely new territory. There's a solid body of work—both within and outside of behavior analysis—focused on physical activity and health for individuals with disabilities. At the same time, there's still a gap when it comes to practical, easy-to-implement tools that can be used by the people doing the day-to-day work.
From there, we get into the early development of the Fit 4 All program and how it's currently being implemented in a day program setting for adults with developmental disabilities. Kate walks through what a typical session looks like, including:
Starting the day by ensuring wearable tech (e.g., a Fitbit) is in place
Using a token system tied to individualized goals (hydration, movement, functional fitness, and nutrition skills)
Embedding physical activity throughout the day (walking, fitness videos, etc.)
Teaching basic nutrition concepts using structured learning trials
Incorporating functional skills like cooking where appropriate
One of the things I appreciated about this approach is how integrated it is. Rather than treating exercise or nutrition as separate, isolated targets, they're woven into the flow of the day and supported through clear contingencies and reinforcement systems.
We also talk about the importance of working within real-world environments. This isn't about creating tightly controlled, clinic-based interventions—it's about meeting people where they are and building systems that can be implemented by direct support staff, teachers, and caregivers in the settings where individuals actually live and spend their time.
This is very much a "boots on the ground" application of behavior analysis—figuring out how to increase things like step count, heart rate, and water consumption in ways that are practical, sustainable, and individualized. And like a lot of good ABA work, it involves ongoing problem-solving—adjusting activities, testing different approaches, and using data to guide decisions.
If you're a BCBA, or someone working directly with individuals with developmental disabilities, this conversation is a good reminder that health and wellness is an area where our science has a lot to offer—and probably more room to grow.
🔑 Key Takeaways
Health behaviors (movement, nutrition, hydration) are behavior—and can be addressed using behavior-analytic principles
Many professionals feel underprepared to support these areas without a structured framework
Embedding interventions into natural environments (e.g., day programs) increases feasibility and sustainability
Simple systems (token boards, wearable data, clear goals) can support meaningful behavior change
Effective programming in this area requires flexibility, creativity, and ongoing data-based decision making
🧩 Why This Matters
Individuals with developmental disabilities are often at higher risk for health-related issues tied to sedentary behavior and diet. At the same time, these are areas that don't always receive systematic attention in programming.
This is one place where behavior analysis can have a meaningful impact on long-term quality of life.
📚 Resources Mentioned
Prior episode with Brandon (Session 127: What is Behavioral Sports Psychology?)
Researchers mentioned: James Rimmer
Ray Miltenberger
Matt Normand
Tim Hackenberg

DeLuca and Holburn (1992). Effects of a variable-ratio reinforcement schedule with changing criteria on exercise in obese and nonobese boys
Sponsors
CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. 
The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!
The Whoop Strap. If you want to take control of your health and fitness, start by getting the data you need with the Whoop Strap. And by using this link, you'll get your first month free!

In Session 329, I'm joined once again by Dr. Nick Green, Ph.D., BCBA-D, who's been doing some really interesting work at the intersection of fitness and behavior science.
In this episode, Nick walks us through the basics of heart rate training zones and why simply "working out" isn't always enough. We talk about the general recommendation of 150 minutes of moderate to vigorous activity per week, but more importantly, how to make sure that time is actually spent in the right zones—particularly Zones 2 through 4—where you're going to see real cardiovascular benefits.
From there, we get into VO2 max, what it is, why it matters, and how you can measure or estimate it—even without access to a lab. Nick also shares some practical training strategies, including the Norwegian 4x4 protocol, which is a structured way to improve cardiovascular fitness through intervals of high-intensity work followed by recovery.
As you might expect, we also spend a good amount of time talking about behavior. Why is it so hard for people to stick with an exercise routine? What gets in the way? And how can we apply behavior-analytic principles to improve adherence?
Nick makes a compelling case for the role of planning and accountability. One of the things he's seen in his coaching practice is that when people invest in structured support, they're much more likely to follow through. We talk about how environmental variables, scheduling, and clear contingencies can make or break a fitness routine.
This was a really practical conversation—whether you're a behavior analyst looking to apply these principles to your own life, or just someone trying to get a little more consistent with exercise.
If you're interested in working with Nick or learning more about his coaching services, be sure to check out his website, which you can find in the resource list below:
BehaviorFit.com (Nick's website; check out his courses here!)
Nick on LinkedIn
BehaviorFit's Instagram
Nick's previous BOP Interviews: Session 47, Session 105, and Session 132
Fogel, et al. (2010). The effects of exergaming on physical activity among inactive children in a physical education classroom.
Green, et al. (2016). Decreasing bouts of prolonged sitting among office workers.
Heart Rate Training 101
Heart Rate Zone Calculator
Norwegian 4X4 Study
Norwegian 4X4 20-Year Heart-Age Reduction Study
High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) effects on VO2 Max
Sponsor Shoutouts!
Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. 
HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.
The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!