More or Less

You know we're deep into summer when Jess leaves the pod early to catch Benson Boone... for the eighth time.

This week, the More or Less squad revisits the Anthropic and OpenAI IPO speculation. Their views haven't changed, but their AI usage certainly has. Dave ditches Anthropic for GLM 5.2 on cost, while Sam argues the AI model wars are effectively over, and the frontier labs know it, which is why they're spending more time in Washington than competing on model quality. America also gets its first serious open weights model. The squad also unpacks OpenAI's hardware ambitions after its much-hyped device turns out to be... an Alexa speaker. Sam explains why Sam Altman's $8 billion Johnny Ive acquisition was effectively free, thanks to narrative capitalism. Plus: real-time voice AI, passive listening devices, peptides, Hinge's new social proof feature, Jay-Z turning New York into a festival, and why biological age tests are basically the clout score of your body.

Chapters:
0:00 Episode Teaser
0:44 Episode Start
2:18 Anthropic IPO This September?
5:29 Dave Dumps Anthropic for GLM 5.
28:22 When Is Better AI Worth Paying For?
12:15 AGI Is Dead, AI Is Political Now
16:15 America's First Open Weights Model By Thinking Machines
21:22 Why Sam Is Depressed About AI
29:07 OpenAI Built... an Alexa? The $8B Johnny Ive Bet
31:38 Silicon Valley Goes Hollywood
36:03 Would You Wear an Always-On Mic?
37:08 OpenAI's Live Voice Model
41:14 Sam's Peptide Experiment
43:36 Hinge Launches “Friend’s Take”
46:11 Jay-Z's NYC Takeover
48:16 Biological Age Is Just a Clout Score

We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

The full quad is back, unpacking OpenAI's offer to give the U.S. government an equity stake. Sam's take: it's less a marketing win than a distress signal. The squad also debates whether Trump Accounts actually reach everyday Americans (Brit is skeptical), defends MacKenzie Scott from the internet's endless opinions about her philanthropy, and digs into Dave's argument that AI labs are slowly strangling the developer ecosystems that could save them.They also tackle Xbox's identity crisis and whether Microsoft should just sell it, the Nex Playground device (In Sam's words: non-VR Beat Saber for families), why 2026 is shaping up to be extreme nihilism wrapped in Silicon Valley optimism, Brit's take that AI has shifted from revolutionary to evolutionary, and, of course in pop culture corner, Brit claiming full credit for calling the Taylor Swift wedding strategy.

Chapters:
0:00 Episode Trailer0:47 Episode Begins
1:10 Fourth of July Recap, Bald Eagles & the No VC Summer
5:10 OpenAI Offered the U.S. Government Equity
11:15 Trump Accounts, Giving Every American Kid a Stake in Capitalism
15:02 Stop Judging MacKenzie Scott's Philanthropy
18:40 AI Labs Are Distressed and Destroying Their Ecosystems
21:50 AI Labs Are Competing With Their Own Developers
35:26 Xbox Is in Trouble, Should Microsoft Sell It?
37:52 Nex, the Quiet Wii Revival Nobody Saw Coming
41:49 Sam's 2026 Prediction: Extreme Nihilism Meets Silicon Valley Optimism
44:04 Vox Americanus Update
46:18 Brit Is Bored of AI. It's Evolution, Not Revolution
48:22 Post-AGI Funds Are a Bad Bet, Physical AI Could Be the Real Revolution
49:27 Going Long on Offline, World Cup, Concerts & Real Life
51:50 Pop Culture Corner: Brit Calls Taylor Swift's Wedding Strategy

We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:
1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

The full quad is back just before the Fourth of July. Dave and Sam explain why padel is just pickleball for fancy people, Sam vibe-coded an app to prove you’re actually American on the internet (Vox Americanus is real and you can use it: https://voxamericanus.com), and Dave even nominates Sam for office, even though Sam insists we should fix the job before electing anyone actually good for it.
The crew also dives into why non-engineers are more capable than they think in the age of agentic coding, Claude Fable 5’s government clearance “drama” and return, how GLM 5.2 is quietly replacing Opus 4 on real agent stacks, why Anthropic is still printing revenue despite open source pressure, and the case for an open source router.. They wrap with pop culture corner: Taylor Swift wedding intel and Brit’s review of Alpha School.

Chapters:
0:00 Episode trailer
0:50 Episode start
1:12 Full Quad Pre-4th of July, Is There Such a Thing as VC Summer?
3:32 Padel Is the New VC Networking Sport, Pickleball Is for the Plebs
9:10 Vox Americanus, Can You Actually Prove You're American Online?
15:25 Should Sam Run for Office? Fix the Job Description First
29:30 Agentic Coding, You're Not Too Late
35:33 Claude Fable 5 Is Back, Government Clearance Drama Explained
41:08 GLM 5.2, Open Source Just Quietly Replaced Opus 4
46:16 Anthropic Still Printing Revenue, The Case for an Open Source Router
47:29 Taylor Swift's Wedding
49:36 Alpha School, Brit's Kids Try AI Education
52:12 America's 250th Birthday

We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/zqmbW163QKQConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

The quad is back. Dave and Brit rejoin Sam and Jess fresh off a More or Less fan encounter at the Zurich airport. It was quite the week for Meta as the squad breaks down the company’s new line of glasses featuring Kylie Jenner (or, in Jess’ words, Kendall), and Brit makes the call that this is finally the watershed moment for women buying smart glasses ( The men seem to be the early adopters, Dave wore his in the Sistine Chapel, and Sam owns 10+ pairs.). Then they get into Meta’s prediction market: a genuinely interesting information machine or a very efficient way to addict twenty-somethings to fake gambling? In true MOL fashion, the squad is split. Sam is all in, Dave is worried it’ll work too well, and Brit thinks it’ll all click when you tie it to The Bachelor. Dave also ran GLM 5.2 on eight Nvidia B200s with some hacker friends and came away shaken. Open source is now matching, if not outperforming, frontier models at 10x the speed, raising uncomfortable questions about the enormous bets sitting on frontier labs today. Remember last year’s AI talent war? It’s back, and Jess argues it’s really an early indicator of investor insecurity. Finally, in pop culture corner: Cannes and Sam’s unsolicited review of The Information's new mobile app.

Chapters:
0:00 Episode trailer
0:50 Intro
1:12 MOL Got Recognized at the Zurich Airport
3:02 What’s on the Agenda Today
5:04 Meta Smart Glasses, The Moment Women Finally Buy In?
14:20 Meta’s Prediction Markets, Brilliant or Addictive?
19:39 Polymarket’s Influencer Problem
22:48 AI Talent Wars, Investors Are Reading the Wrong Signals
25:40 GLM 5.2 on Nvidia B200s, Open Source Catches Frontier Models
28:20 AI Token Spend, Sam’s $1,500/Month Experiment
31:04 Sam Reviews The Information App Live
36:17 Anthropic, Dell, and the Math Behind Generational Returns
43:30 Cannes Lions, Worth It or Corporate Boondoggle?

We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
YouTube: https://youtu.be/dbdH6dPMDxk
Connect with us here:
1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Sam and Jessica go two-on-two this week to unpack the SpaceX IPO and whether a $2.5 trillion valuation is actually justified, exploring why “it’s valuable because it’s valuable” may be a legitimate investment thesis and why Cursor’s $60 billion acquisition looks cheap in that context. They also break down Anthropic’s clash with the U.S. government over Fable 5, with Sam arguing the crackdown could be the best marketing in AI history, before debating the risks of tying software access to nationality. The episode closes with Meta’s AI morale problem, OpenAI burning nearly $4 billion in Q1 on $5.7 billion in revenue, the case for a multi-model future where no single frontier model wins, and why Sam believes token economics may be one of the most overlooked opportunities in economics. In lieu of Pop Culture Corner, Jessica brings a Reed Hastings book recommendation, while Sam once again demonstrates that having conviction and acting on it are apparently two different skill sets. After eight months of pitching DigitalOcean, he still doesn’t own the stock.

Chapters:
00:00 - Teaser
01:47 - SpaceX IPO Analysis
09:17 - Narrative Assets and Retail Investing
12:09 - The Future of AI Models and Infrastructure
16:00 - Corporate Narratives, Employee Motivation, and Meta’s AI Challenges
22:58 - OpenAI’s Market Strategy and Impact
25:19 - Open Source Models and Market Share
27:01 - Economics of Tokens and Innovation
33:01 - Anthropic’s PR Strategy and Fable Model Release
35:24 - Government Stakes in AI Companies
39:04 - Reed Hasting's Book Recommendation

We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
YouTube: https://youtu.be/ZVD3jS6Lexc

Connect with us here:
1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit