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More or Less

Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin
More or Less
Latest episode

155 episodes

  • More or Less

    Teamshares IPO: $60M EBITDA, 92 Companies, Zero Exits

    06/17/2026 | 51 mins.
    Seven years after Slow wrote its first check, Sam sits down with Teamshares CEO Mike Brown as the company prepares to go public. Mike’s core insight is simple: America has millions of durable, cash-flowing small businesses, but no great long-term owner. After buying and operating electrical contractors himself, he realized the opportunity wasn’t another marketplace or PE roll-up, it was building a permanent holding company that acquires great businesses, gives employees ownership, and never sells. Today, Teamshares owns 92 businesses generating roughly $60M in EBITDA. The conversation explores why most roll-ups fail, why capital allocation is the true operating system of the business, and why the traditional private equity model may be running out of steam. Mike closes with an ambitious goal: grow corporate EBITDA from $19M to $100M by 2027 and create a forever home for thousands of small businesses.

    Chapters
    00:00 Episode Teaser Featuring Mike Brown, Teamshares CEO
    01:11 The Teamshares Origin Story
    04:48 From Wall Street to Buying Small Businesses
    10:47 Why Going Direct to Sellers Didn’t Work (The FSBO Problem)
    13:18 Buying at Scale, The Teamshares Model
    15:27 92 Acquisitions and $60M EBITDA, Lessons Learned
    18:26 Why Generalist Hires Didn’t Work
    19:08 Building a Leadership Pipeline
    23:46 The Internal YC, Community Across Portfolio Companies
    27:42 How Technology Powers 92 Businesses
    28:08 “Will This Business Exist in 50 Years?”
    32:21 Why Most Roll-Ups Fail
    37:30 The Road to $100M EBITDA
    39:51 The Long-Term Vision
    40:58 Capital Allocation as a Competitive Advantage
    42:34 Decentralized Leadership, Centralized Capital
    46:16 Why Private Equity Fails Small Businesses
    49:25 Going Public, What Comes Next

    We’re also on ↓
    X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
    Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
    YouTube: https://youtu.be/3tV4wdtZBuk

    Connect with us here:
    1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
    2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
    3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
    4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
    Important Disclosures and Disclaimers:Teamshares has entered into a definitive agreement for a business combination with Live Oak Crest Acquisition Corp. (“Live Oak”), a special purpose acquisition company. In connection with the proposed transaction, a registration statement on Form S-4 (the “Registration Statement”) has been filed with, and been declared effective by, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (the “SEC”). This podcast does not constitute an offer to sell or the solicitation of an offer to buy any securities. For important information about the proposed transaction, including where to find the Registration Statement and other legal disclaimers, please refer to the press release available at https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20260527344175/en/Teamshares-Announces-S-4-Effectiveness-in-Anticipation-of-Nasdaq-Listing.Clarifications:
    Teamshares currently has 93 operating subsidiaries. Additionally, Teamshares has had documented revenue declines and business closures. A full reconciliation of non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures, as well as Teamshares’ audited GAAP financial statements, is available in the Registration Statement. Investors should review the full set of assumptions and risk factors accompanying these metrics in the Registration Statement.
  • More or Less

    Apple’s New Siri, SpaceX’s $300B IPO & the AI Company Killing Its Own Brand

    06/12/2026 | 44 mins.
    Dave joins the squad from YC just ahead of WWDC, where the group breaks down Apple’s upgraded Siri and the surprising revelation that much of Apple’s AI capability is powered by Google’s Gemini models. It wouldn’t be a technology podcast without the squad expanding into the broader AI landscape, with Dave arguing that outside of OpenAI and Anthropic, most AI companies are becoming infrastructure providers rather than destination products. They continue to unpack the IPO frenzy around SpaceX and OpenAI, including SpaceX’s reportedly massive investor demand and OpenAI’s murky timeline to go public. Jess then shifts the conversation to the turmoil at 60 Minutes, where leadership shakeups, internal revolts, and a declining brand presence raise questions about the future of legacy media. Finally, in Pop Culture Corner, the pod closes with Disney’s $200 million bet on Toy Story 5 and Taylor Swift’s outsized promotional impact.
    Chapters:
    01:53 Apple WWDC: New Siri Breakdown
    05:18 Google Gemini Powers Apple AI
    07:06 WWDC Ignored Developers Entirely
    10:21 Tim Cook’s Leadership Baton Pass
    14:30 SpaceX IPO and OpenAI Filing
    18:00 Anthropic vs. OpenAI Narrative War
    21:48 Dave Morin’s Two-Phone Redemption
    26:52 60 Minutes Leadership Implosion
    38:44 Toy Story 5 and Taylor Swift

    We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/Yvox4U_8u1wConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
  • More or Less

    Silicon Valley IPO Summer 2026: SpaceX, Anthropic, OpenAI Explained

    06/05/2026 | 45 mins.
    Brit subs in for Jess as Sam and Dave unpack the AI IPO boom, including SpaceX, Anthropic, and Cerebras, debate whether AI agents can actually replace employees, and react live to the discovery that Slow’s @slow Instagram account was stolen through a Meta AI support exploit. The conversation spans OpenClaw’s enterprise push, recent AI funding rounds, the AI wrapper debate, and Sam’s latest investing thesis that startup pitches should look more like movie trailers than decks, before ending with a pop culture corner into Taylor Swift, AI-generated podcasts for kids, and the future of TBPN after the OpenAI deal.

    Chapters:
    02:53 AI IPO Season: SpaceX, Anthropic & Cerebras
    05:29 Narrative Capitalism: Storing Value in Stories
    11:34 What the AI IPO Wave Means for Silicon Valley
    15:02 Microsoft Build: OpenClaw Goes Enterprise
    17:38 Would You Trade Your Employee for an AI Agent?
    25:19 LIVE: Slow Ventures’ Instagram Gets Hacked via Meta AI
    30:04 Are AI Harnesses Just Fancy PDFs?
    31:49 Recent AI Raises & the SaaS Comeback
    33:01 The New Pitch: Movie Trailers Over Decks
    41:17 AI-Generated Podcasts, Voice Cloning & Consumer AI
    42:54 TBPN Update: Post-OpenAI Deal
    We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/oYmxx8ElGHkConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
  • More or Less

    Did Anthropic Use the Pope as a Marketing Stunt? Ft. Amir Efrati

    05/29/2026 | 50 mins.
    This week on More or Less, Amir Efrati of The Information joins Jessica, Brit, and Dave to unpack the growing intersection of AI, government, and national security, from the rumored stalled executive AI order to why frontier model companies may soon face deeper U.S. oversight and pre-release access demands. The group debates whether slowing AI adoption is really a pricing and UX problem, why AI agents are causing token consumption to explode, and whether most consumers even want an always-on personal agent. They also dive into the geopolitical implications of data centers and open-source software, AI’s impact on entertainment and voice cloning, Hollywood’s anxiety over originality, and the strange new world where even papal writings prompt questions about whether AI had a hand in shaping the message.Chapters:1:57 — AI Predictions, Whispering to Models & Forecasting the Future4:37 — AI, National Security & the Trump Administration6:52 — The Pope’s AI Document, Closed Models & Security Risks11:56 — AI Regulation, Job Fears & Public Sentiment15:45 — Is AI Adoption Slowing Down? Pricing, ROI & Enterprise Reality21:00 — Agents, CIOs & Whether Mainstream Users Will Ever Embrace AI36:00 — AI Entertainment, Voice Cloning & Hollywood’s Future41:52 — Going Off-Grid, Book Recommendations & Digital Detoxes47:00 — Mark Rober, CrunchLabs & the $10,000 Bullseye StoryWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/OyC7N42o36sConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
  • More or Less

    SpaceX IPO Date Talk + OpenAI Confidential Filing Rumors

    05/22/2026 | 52 mins.
    This week on More or Less, the crew unpacks IPO speculation around OpenAI and SpaceX, debates whether AI’s economics ultimately favor recurring API spend or owning infrastructure outright, questions if Google’s distribution advantage is enough to win the AI race despite muddled product execution, and wrestles with whether today’s AI valuations are driven by real fundamentals or pure mimetic momentum, alongside broader debates on broken AI user experience, data center concentration risk, agentic search killing SEO, and whether skilled trades like plumbing may ultimately prove more durable than many white-collar jobs in the AI era.Chapters:01:35 — Brit’s fish disaster story + the fish microbiome economy04:50 — Dell World, AI PCs, and the tokenomics debate (API spend vs. owning infrastructure)11:00 — Google I/O recap: agentic search, generative UI, Android glasses, and whether Google is actually back16:30 — Google’s UX problem: why AI still feels broken for normal users20:00 — Anthropic vs. Google: focused monolith vs. sprawling empire22:10 — OpenAI IPO speculation + Anthropic’s mega-round: what do you have to believe at $1T valuations?29:30 — The “hate invest” thesis: public sentiment, retail risk, and crypto déjà vu34:20 — Portfolio debate: SpaceX vs. Anthropic vs. OpenAI35:00 — Sam builds an AI token pricing dashboard live + how companies actually burn $30K/month on tokens37:00 — What’s next in AI research? Memory, world models, and where infra plays went42:30 — White House AI model oversight rumors + OpenAI’s Elon legal update50:10 — AI side projects, kids learning to code, and why plumbers may win the AI eraWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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About More or Less
Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin have debated the future of Silicon Valley and tech as the closest of friends for the last 15 years. Now six companies, two venture funds and more than a decade at Google, Apple and Facebook later, they are opening up the debate. From The Information, Offline Ventures, and Slow Ventures. Follow the crew: http://x.com/davemorin http://x.com/brit http://x.com/lessin http:/x.com/jessicalessin Follow the pod: https://moreorlesspod.com/ http://youtube.com/moreorlesspod https://x.com/moreorlesspod
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