For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

• Who Deserves Your Love? KC Davis on Boundaries, Healing, and Letting Go

  Description: KC Davis is a licensed professional counselor, an author, a speaker, and, frankly, one of the most compassionate, funny, down-to-earth voices out there. During the pandemic, she created an amazing platform called Struggle Care where she has been teaching us how to care for ourselves (and our homes) without stigma or shame. Like—if the laundry’s piled up or the dishes aren’t done, it doesn’t mean you’re lazy or broken. It just means you’re living life. It’s a gracious approach to self-care that we wildly embrace.  KC’s first book, How to Keep House While Drowning, was a total game-changer for so many women  who’ve felt overwhelmed by the everyday—and now she’s back with a brand new book called Who Deserves Your Love, helping us figure out which relationships we want to invest in, which ones need boundaries, and maybe even which ones we need to step away from.  This conversation goes to some deep places. We talk about: What mistreatment looks like in relationships, as opposed to abuse The stories that we tell ourselves about another person’s behavior when we get caught up in the vulnerability cycle What it means to be morally neutral How to use a relationship decision tree to evaluate and make decisions about a relationship And the sticky secret to enforcing boundaries With accessibility, humorous relatability, and vulnerability,  KC is here to help us navigate the messy, complicated work of loving people and loving ourselves. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Sometimes my publishers will give me some advice like, ‘Let’s project that you’re a credible expert’, meanwhile I’m shooting TikToks from the toilet.” – KC Davis “Despite being a therapist, I did not realize that I had severe postpartum depression because I didn't feel sad.” KC Davis “Messiness is not a moral failing. Either your messiness is just a part of your personality and it's pretty functional for you and you don't need to change anything and accept yourself or maybe it's because you're having a hard time.” – KC Davis “No one has ever shamed themselves into better mental health.” – KC Davis “Self-care is not the thing you do to make yourself not struggle. It is learning how to take care of yourself while you struggle.” – KC Davis Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Who Deserves Your Love: How to Create Boundaries to Start, Strengthen, or End Any Relationship by KC Davis - https://amzn.to/3GVFdfh How to Keep House While Drowning: A Gentle Approach to Cleaning and Organizing by KC Davis - https://amzn.to/43dAn4n KC Davis Resources - https://www.strugglecare.com/resources KC Davis TED Talk - How To Do Laundry When You’re Depressed - https://www.ted.com/talks/kc_davis_how_to_do_laundry_when_you_re_depressed_apr_2022 Thomas–Kilmann Conflict Styles - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas%E2%80%93Kilmann_Conflict_Mode_Instrument Struggle Care - https://www.strugglecare.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.strugglecare.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/strugglecare Twitter - https://x.com/KCDavisSays Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/StruggleCare/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@domesticblisters Podcast - https://www.strugglecare.com/struggle-care Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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• May 2025: Wade Rouse’s (aka Viola Shipman’s) The Page Turner

  Description:Beloved author Wade Rouse—who writes under the pen name Viola Shipman—joins Jen for a heartfelt, hilarious, and deeply insightful conversation about writing, identity, and honoring the women who shape us. Known for his evocative novels rooted in love, memory, and family, Wade shares the origin of his pen name (a tribute to his grandmother), the transition from memoir to fiction, and how Michigan became the emotional landscape for so many of his stories.In this touching episode, Jen and Wade dive into: The joy (and exhaustion) of book tours The beauty of writing from grief The fight against genre-shaming in publishing Why women’s voices in literature matter more than ever His latest novel The Page Turner, and what inspired it His upcoming project that’s giving Golden Girls a queer twist Whether you’re a book lover, an aspiring writer, or someone who believes in the power of personal stories, this episode is packed with inspiration, connection, and literary magic.Thought-Provoking Quotes:★ “My grandmother never finished high school, but she taught me to love myself unconditionally. My novels are a thank-you to her.” – Wade Rouse★ “The most fearful place in your life can also be the place you take off from.” – Wade Rouse★ “I’m not having it—genre shaming diminishes stories that speak to real people in real life.” – Wade Rouse★ “Writing is how I make sense of the world. It’s what keeps me alive.” – Wade Rouse★ “Real readers read your books.” – Jen HatmakerResources Mentioned in This Episode:➢ The Page Turner by Viola Shipman - https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-page-turner-viola-shipman/c2LjF3Fyg5p6hhsJ➢ Thank You for Being a Friend (Coming Spring 2026 from Wade Rouse) - https://www.harpercollins.com/products/thank-you-for-being-a-friend-wade-rouse?variant=43837257121826➢ On Being Jewish Now, edited by Zibby Owens – https://zibbymedia.com/products/on-being-jewish-now?srsltid=AfmBOopN4cohtpA6k7EbIWC3F0Pq7dYqivWB5s97E-e9iEtFrw4sugUH➢ Erma Bombeck –https://amzn.to/3DT9NoL➢ BookPeople in Austin, TX – https://www.bookpeople.com➢ Visit Saugatuck, MI – https://www.saugatuck.comGuest’s Links:Website – https://www.violashipman.comInstagram – https://www.instagram.com/violashipmanFacebook – https://www.facebook.com/ViolaShipmanBooksConnect with Jen!Website – https://jenhatmaker.comInstagram – https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerFacebook – https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerYouTube – https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmakerThe For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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• You Called, We Listened: Your Stories, In Your Words

  Description: Today, we’re playing a few of our favorite messages and responding to what you, our listeners, have shared. Whether it’s midlife realizations, hard-won wisdom, or letting go of stuff that just isn’t serving you anymore—this is about all of us learning from each other. Thank you to Alice, Ann, Sarah, Ashley, #1 Becky and  “Badass Becky”   Also, Sydney Hatmaker said some hurtful things to us about us broadcasting our bare old lady feet on the podcast and we had to take a minute to discuss a new dress code policy. Thought-provoking Quotes: 18:00 Sometimes the tool is just language – Amy Hardin 21:00 Tools all in use but still suffering – Jen 27:00 I want to shake people and pull things over. I’m not sure that’s the appropriate response. – Jen 29:30 If we don’t counter messages, others will take over. – Jen 47:00 Make a list of your accomplishments to use for momentum – Amy 48:00 I think we are at our best in the second half of life – Jen 58:00 I want out of the rat race – Jen Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Reclaiming Your Power: Moms Demand Action’s Shannon Watts on Living a Life of Passion and Purpose - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/reclaiming-your-power-moms-demand-actions-shannon-watts-on-living-a-life-of-passion-and-purpose/ Camino de Santiago - https://santiago-compostela.net/ Midlife Isn’t a Crisis, It’s a Comeback: Maddie Corman on Being Accidentally Brave - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/midlife-isnt-a-crisis-its-a-comeback-maddie-corman-on-being-accidentally-brave/ Betrayal Trauma - https://www.verywellmind.com/betrayal-trauma-causes-symptoms-impact-and-coping-5270361 Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/ Books by Brené Brown - https://amzn.to/3FgwnIt The Tears of Things: Living Prophetically in an Age of Outrage with Richard Rohr - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/the-tears-of-things-living-prophetically-in-an-age-of-outrage-with-richard-rohr/ Trump administration says it’s cutting 90% of USAID foreign aid contracts - https://apnews.com/article/trump-usaid-foreign-aid-cuts-6292f48f8d4025bed0bf5c3e9d623c16 Kendra Adachi - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/ Escaping the Productivity Trap: Kendra Adachi’s Lazy Genius Perspective - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/escaping-the-productivity-trap-kendra-adachis-lazy-genius-perspective/ Frances Mayes - https://www.francesemayes.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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• Secrets of Adulthood: Gretchen Rubin on Living a Happier, Simpler Life

  Gretchen Rubin is one of today’s most influential observers of happiness and human nature. In addition to hosting the award-winning podcast Happier with Gretchen Rubin, where she shares practical strategies for building a happier, healthier, more creative life, Gretchen is also the bestselling author of The Happiness Project, The Four Tendencies, Better Than Before, Life in Five Senses, and now Secrets of Adulthood, a delightful collection of her signature aphorisms—concise, thought-provoking truths gathered from her own experiences and reflections on human nature. Today, Gretchen shares a wealth of bite-sized, digestible truths with Jen and Amy that acknowledge problems everyone faces.  “What we do every day matters more than what we do once in a while.” “Outer order contributes to inner calm.” “A strong voice repels as well as attracts.” “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.” And our personal favorite, “Choose the bigger life.” Gretchen also delves into the Four Tendencies and helps Jen and Amy unpack their profiles to better understand whether they are an Upholder, Questioner, Obliger, or Rebel.  Anyone want to take bets? Thought-provoking Quotes: “Happier people are  more interested in the problems of the world. And they're more interested in the problems of the people around them. They're more likely to volunteer. They're more likely to vote. They're more likely to donate their time or their money. They're more likely to help out if someone needs a hand. When we're happier, we're able to turn outward and to think about the problems of the world.” – Gretchen Rubin “Action is the antidote to anxiety.” – Gretchen Rubin “There’s really no more eloquent way to put this: one of the best ways to make friends is to make friends with the friends of your friends.” – Gretchen Rubin “When we're doing something hard, it feels like the times are hard." – Gretchen Rubin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Camino de Santiago Pilgrimage - https://santiago-compostela.net/ Secrets of Adulthood: Simple Truths for Our Complex Lives by Gretchen Rubin - https://amzn.to/4kq8TzF The Happier App - https://thehappierapp.com/ David Sedaris The Happiness Project: Or, Why I Spent a Year Trying to Sing in the Morning, Clean My Closets, Fight Right, Read Aristotle, and Generally Have More Fun by Gretchen Rubin - https://amzn.to/3S9OXox The Four Tendencies Quiz - https://gretchenrubin.com/quiz/the-four-tendencies-quiz/  The English Understand Wool by Helen DeWitt - https://amzn.to/43iUOgg The Last Samurai by Helen DeWitt - https://amzn.to/43tjDaF 5 Things Making Me Happy Newsletter - https://gretchenrubin.com/newsletter/5-things-making-me-happy-september-16-2022/ Sandwich: A Novel by Catherine Newman - https://amzn.to/4m9KGiy Guest’s Links: Website - https://gretchenrubin.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/gretchenrubin/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/GretchenRubin Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/GretchenRubin TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@gretchenrubin Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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  1:02:50
• Title: Maggie Smith on Art and the Gift of Our Attention

  Description: … We need art and beauty now more than ever We need creators to create And Jen admits to being a metaphor whore Thought-provoking Quotes: “The thing that really kept me going was writing. Writing was the way that I came home to myself.” – Maggie Smith  8:00 Nobody wants my cookbook. The next step will be call Doordash – Maggie Smith 9:00 Every decision you make is a creative decision.  10:15 I always want to grab people by the shoulders…. 13:45 Even if you’re not a writer, if you have a good therapist, they’ll probably tell you to write. 27:15 The quality of your attention in the world is your gift. 31:00 I am so grateful that people make things 35:00 I may look like I’m alone when I’m writing 35:30 I think it’s important to debunk the myth of the solo creator (similar to the tortured artist) 42:00 I would hate for people to think that fully formed poems come out. Just get it down. Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Dear Writer: Pep Talks & Practical Advice for the Creative Life by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/42EPzrc Sturgill Simpson - https://sturgillsimpson.com/ Good Bones poem by Maggie Smith - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/89897/good-bones Keep Moving: Notes on Loss, Creativity, and Change by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/3Gal2Kd Moving Forward After Pain Rips Your Script: Maggie Smith - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-36/moving-forward-after-pain-rips-your-script-maggie-smith/ The Friendships That Save Us: Maggie Smith - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-54/the-friendships-that-save-us-maggie-smith/ The Dear Writer Book Tour - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/dear-writer-book-tour/ You Could Make This Place Beautiful: A Memoir by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/3Ep8sWK Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/42yKoJi Joan Didion – https://www.joandidion.org/ My Life by Lynn Hejinian - https://amzn.to/3Eo6J40 Sayeed Jones - https://www.readsaeedjones.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/maggiesmithpoet/ Twitter - https://x.com/maggiesmithpoet Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/maggiesmithpoet Substack - https://maggiesmith.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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  1:11:20

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