Alt Goes Mainstream: The Latest on Alternative Investments, WealthTech, & Private Markets

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.
Today’s episode dives into how data and market structure are shaping private markets.
We sat down in MSCI’s New York office with Luke Flemmer, the Head of Private Assets at MSCI to discuss how standardization and normalization of data can help bring efficiency, transparency, and liquidity to private markets.
Luke brings a unique perspective to private markets. He was previously Managing Director, Head of Digital Strategy for Alternative Investments at Goldman Sachs Asset Management, and was Co-Founder and CEO of Lab49, a global solutions provider of investment and risk technology to asset managers and investment banks.
When the ION Group acquired Lab49, Luke became Co-Head of ION’s Capital Markets Division, delivering software and solutions to the group’s global financial services customer base.
Earlier in his career, Luke worked in the fields of robotics and artificial intelligence. He is a CFA charterholder.
Luke and I had a fascinating conversation about private markets market structure and how MSCI is playing a role in driving standardization, normalization, and transparency of data in private markets. We covered:
Parallels to market structure evolutions in equities, fixed income, FX, and derivatives.
Tradeoffs of transparency for private markets participants.
What it will take to build transparency and price formation in private markets.
Where investors will still be able to find durable alpha.
What standardization and normalization of data means for secondary markets.
Analogies between Greek mythology and private markets.
How secondaries has gone from a trade to a portfolio management tool.
How index creation will impact private markets.
Thanks Luke for sharing your wisdom, expertise, and passion at the intersection of private markets and market structure.
Show Notes
00:00 “Data Wants to be Free”
00:28 Welcome to the Alt Goes Mainstream Podcast
01:02 Sponsor Spotlight: Ultimus Fund Solutions
01:57 Private Markets, Data, and Market Structure
02:17 Meet MSCI’s Luke Flemmer
04:26 From Robotics to Finance: Automation Needs Standardization
05:18 Fixed Income’s Transformation: From Trading Floors to E-Trading
06:42 Connecting the Data Across the Lifecycle
07:58 Harmonized Data → Transparency → Liquidity
08:44 Scaling vs Information Asymmetry
10:38 What More Transparency Does to Returns and Alpha
11:15 Benchmarking Privates Like Publics: PMEs and Comparable Data
12:35 Manager Skill and Illiquidity Premium
14:14 Company-Level Data & Bilateral Origins
16:19 The Ship of Theseus Parable and Should Privates Become Public?
23:17 COVID, Denominator Effect, and LP Scrutiny
23:50 The New Baseline for Private Funds
24:15 Wealth Channel Tailwinds and the Rise of Active LP Portfolio Management
25:23 Using Public Liquidity to Balance Private Illiquidity
26:15 The 85/15 Public-Private Index: Why Blend Public Equity with Private Equity
27:16 Daily Pricing Private Equity: Solving the “Stale Marks” Problem
28:15 Smoothing, Stickiness and Forced Secondary Sales
29:20 What Tech/Data You Need to Nowcast PE Daily (and What’s Still Missing)
30:31 Price Formation Feeding Better Indexes
31:34 From Secondaries to Derivatives: Lessons from Fixed Income NAVs
33:14 Building Trust in Private Benchmarks: Data Scale and Adoption Over Cycles
33:53 Unlocking 401(k)s: What Must Be True for Wealth to Go Big in Privates
37:05 Liquidity, Suitability, Risk & Factor Decomposition
39:05 Durable Private Markets Alpha (and the Index Question)
41:51 Standardizing the Language: Defining “Liquidity” and MSCI as the Connective Tissue (Wrap)
A Word from Our Sponsor, Ultimus
This episode of Alt Goes Mainstream is brought to you by Ultimus, the full-service fund administrator and transfer agent powering asset managers in private and public markets. As alts go mainstream, you need real expertise to handle complex fund structures, connect with key distribution partners, and handle sophisticated compliance, reporting, and transparency demands.
That’s Ultimus: high-tech, high-touch solutions for over 450 clients and 2,500 funds with $775B in assets under administration. Backed by an expert team of over 1,200 employees, they place client service at the core of their business, helping you navigate complexity during your fund structuring or launch and then supporting you through every stage of growth. Whether you’re already in the market or thinking about entering private wealth, you can trust their team’s deep expertise in retail alternatives to help you reach your goals.
Learn more at ultimusfundsolutions.com or email [email protected].
We thank Ultimus for their support of alts going mainstream.
Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant.

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.
The Goldman Sachs Alternatives Summit “convened leaders across finance, geopolitics, technology, and culture” to discuss themes driving global markets.
2025’s Alternatives Summit was about “navigating a world in flux,” as the firm’s recap of its event noted. 
The event aimed to help investors cut through the noise and put together the pieces of the puzzle in a dynamic and increasingly complex world. 
Alt Goes Mainstream joined the event to have unscripted conversations with Goldman Sachs Alternatives leaders to cut through the noise by unpacking key themes and trends at the intersection of private markets and private wealth.
In this special series, we went behind the scenes and interviewed six Goldman Sachs Alternatives leaders about their current thinking on private markets and how the firm has built and evolved its private markets capabilities.
This conversation was with Jeff Fine, Partner, Global Co-Head of Alternatives Capital Formation within Goldman Sachs Asset Management, with responsibility for capital raising, product strategy, research and investor relations across private equity, private credit, real assets, secondaries, GP stakes and hedge funds/liquid alternatives. 
Jeff is a member of the Real Estate Investment Committee and Urban Investment Group Investment Committee. Jeffrey is also on the boards of GS Real Estate Investment Trust and GS Real Estate Finance Trust. Previously, he was Global Head of Real Estate Client Solutions for Goldman Sachs Asset Management and a senior real estate investor in the Merchant Banking Division for more than 20 years. Jeffrey joined Goldman Sachs in 2002 in the Merchant Banking Division as an Analyst. He was named Managing Director in 2012 and Partner in 2018. Jeff is Chairman of the Dyson School Advisory Council and a member of the SC Johnson College of Business Leadership Council at Cornell University. He is a member of the Cornell Endowment’s Risk, Liquidity, and Operations Subcommittee and the Board of Directors of the Pension Real Estate Association Foundation. Jeffrey is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and the Met Council at the Brookings Institution.
Jeff and I had a fascinating conversation about the intersection of private markets and private wealth, fundraising trends, and the growing role of insurers and the wealth channel in private markets capital formation. We covered:
The evolving private markets landscape.
The important role of the product specialist.
The impact of AI on investing and what it means for private markets.
What it takes to be a great investor.
The importance of the value creation process in driving investment value.
The future of capital formation in private markets.
Thanks Jeff for sharing your wisdom, expertise, and passion about private markets and private wealth.
Show Notes
01:05 Welcome to the Alt Goes Mainstream Podcast
02:08 Jeff Fine's Background and Career Journey
03:43 Sophistication in the Market
05:05 The Role of Product Specialists
07:16 Talent and Resourcing in Asset Management 
08:01 The War for Talent in Asset Management
09:07 Investment Performance as a Priority
10:05 Balancing Origination and LP Demand
11:42 Meeting Client Needs in Wealth Channel
12:06 Transparency and Risk Communication
12:59 Growth in Private Markets
18:07 Global Capital and Diversification
19:31 Smart Allocation in Private Markets
20:58 Private Credit as a Yield Instrument
22:23 The Role of Insurance in Private Markets
24:33 Customization and Scale in Private Markets
28:55 Trends in LP Relationships
30:39 Strategic Partnerships and Cost Efficiency
31:40 Concerns About Market Valuations
32:43 Belief in a Transformative Future
35:24 Advice for LPs in Current Market
36:21 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant.

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.
The Goldman Sachs Alternatives Summit “convened leaders across finance, geopolitics, technology, and culture” to discuss themes driving global markets.
2025’s Alternatives Summit was about “navigating a world in flux,” as the firm’s recap of its event noted. 
The event aimed to help investors cut through the noise and put together the pieces of the puzzle in a dynamic and increasingly complex world. 
Alt Goes Mainstream joined the event to have unscripted conversations with Goldman Sachs Alternatives leaders to cut through the noise by unpacking key themes and trends at the intersection of private markets and private wealth.
In this special series, we went behind the scenes and interviewed six Goldman Sachs Alternatives leaders about their current thinking on private markets and how the firm has built and evolved its private markets capabilities.
This conversation was with Michael Bruun, Global Co-Head of Private Equity within Goldman Sachs Asset Management. 
He is a member of the Goldman Sachs Asset Management International Management Committee, Asset Management (AM) Private Equity Investment Committee, AM Growth Equity Investment Committee, AM Sustainable Investing Investment Committee, Asset & Wealth Management Inclusion and Diversity Council and is a member of the Goldman Sachs Firmwide Client Franchise Committee. In 2021, Michael was named Head of EMEA Private Equity within Goldman Sachs Asset Management and from 2019 to 2021, he was Head of Private Equity and Growth Equity investing for India. Michael joined the Merchant Banking Division in 2010 and worked in London and New York. Prior to that, he was a member of the Nordic Mergers & Acquisitions team in the Investment Banking Division (IBD), after initially joining IBD in 2005. Michael joined Goldman Sachs as an Analyst in the Fixed Income, Currency and Commodities Division in 2004. He was named Managing Director in 2013 and partner in 2016. Michael serves on the boards of Advania, Kahoot!, LRQA, Norgine, Synthon and Trackunit. He is a founding partner of the Human Practice Foundation in Denmark and a trustee in the UK. Michael earned a BA in Economics from the University of Copenhagen.
Michael and I had a fascinating conversation about private equity, today’s investing environment, the hardest part about investing today, and how product innovation is impacting private equity’s market structure. We discussed:
How investors can approach allocating to private equity today.
The toolkit required to generate returns in private equity.
The importance of network and operating partners in value creation.
How new product innovation and new structures like evergreens and continuation vehicles are changing growth equity and private equity. 
The importance of understanding macro in a new world order of geopolitics and a new world order of investing.
The skillsets that investors need to have to be a good investor in today’s investing environment.
The hardest part about investing today. 
Thanks Michael for sharing your wisdom, expertise, and passion about private equity.
Show Notes
00:56 Welcome to the Alt Goes Mainstream Podcast
02:04 Michael Bruun's Background and Career
02:31 Evolution of Private Equity
03:14 Impact of Market Changes on Private Equity
03:43 Operational Value Creation
04:50 Importance of Value Creation Resources
05:33 Driving EBITDA Growth
06:04 Goldman's Value Acceleration Resources
07:18 Focus on Data and AI
08:27 AI in Different Sectors
11:22 Goldman's Investment Strategy
14:28 Scale and Capital in Private Equity
15:40 Co-Investments and Evergreen Vehicles
18:11 Flexibility in Private Markets
23:53 Navigating Volatility
24:59 Post-Investment Operations
25:23 Goldman Sachs Engineering
26:05 Future of Private Equity
27:39 CEO AI Academy
28:01 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant.

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.
The Goldman Sachs Alternatives Summit “convened leaders across finance, geopolitics, technology, and culture” to discuss themes driving global markets.
2025’s Alternatives Summit was about “navigating a world in flux,” as the firm’s recap of its event noted. 
The event aimed to help investors cut through the noise and put together the pieces of the puzzle in a dynamic and increasingly complex world. 
Alt Goes Mainstream joined the event to have unscripted conversations with Goldman Sachs Alternatives leaders to cut through the noise by unpacking key themes and trends at the intersection of private markets and private wealth.
In this special series, we went behind the scenes and interviewed six Goldman Sachs Alternatives leaders about their current thinking on private markets and how the firm has built and evolved its private markets capabilities.
This conversation was with Harold Hope, Partner, Global Head of Vintage Strategies, one of the world's largest secondary fund managers, in the External Investing Group (XIG) within Goldman Sachs Asset Management. 
He is also Chair of the XIG Vintage Funds Committee and a member of the XIG Real Estate Strategies Investment Committee and the XIG GP Strategies Investment Committee. Harold joined Goldman Sachs in 1999 as an Associate in Leveraged Finance and Corporate Finance within the Investment Banking Division and moved to the Alternative Investments & Manager Selection (now XIG) private equity business in 2001. He was named Managing Director in 2006 and Partner in 2016. Prior to joining the firm, Harold worked as a financial analyst at the investment banking boutique Bowles Hollowell Conner & Co. Harold earned a BA in Economics and Political Science from the University of North Carolina. 
Harold and I had a fascinating and timely conversation about the growth and evolution of the secondaries market. We discussed:
Perspectives from Harold’s early days in secondaries 25 years ago, when Goldman had raised its first $400M fund in secondaries and when the secondaries industry was doing around $2B per year in transaction volume.
How the secondaries market is vastly different from five years ago. 
The evolution of innovation in the secondaries market.
Why problem-solving is a defining feature of secondaries. 
What is the right skillset required to be a great secondaries investor?
Why secondaries is fundamentally a valuation oriented business.
Are secondaries returns driven by buying high-quality assets or by buying at steep discounts?
Misconceptions about continuation vehicles and how the trend of private companies staying private longer impacts CVs.
The how and the why behind Goldman’s recent acquisition of Industry Ventures and why Goldman is excited about the opportunity set in venture and growth secondaries.
Why scale matters in secondaries.
Why secondaries might not become a traded market like the bank loan market and why secondaries may not fully achieve standardization because managers may not want completely uniform standardization.
Why secondaries can be an on-ramp to private markets for private wealth investors.
Thanks Harold for sharing your wisdom, expertise, and passion about secondaries and private markets.
Show Notes
00:35 Welcome to the Alt Goes Mainstream Podcast
01:26 Harold Hope’s Background and Entry into Secondaries
02:13 Evolution of the Secondaries Market
02:30 Drivers of Change in the Market
02:43 Innovations in the Secondary Market
04:45 Skill Sets Required in Secondaries
05:42 Valuation and Investment Strategies
07:14 Continuation Vehicles (CVs) Explained
09:27 Impact of Private Companies Staying Private Longer
10:47 Acquisition of Industry Ventures
12:01 Specialized Teams in Secondaries
13:14 Goldman's Unique Position in Secondaries
14:28 Leveraging Data and AI in Secondaries
15:47 Recent Trends and Market Dynamics
16:42 Future Growth of the Secondaries Market
17:10 Secondaries as an On-Ramp for Retail Investors
18:15 Closing Thoughts and Future Outlook

Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant.

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.
The Goldman Sachs Alternatives Summit “convened leaders across finance, geopolitics, technology, and culture” to discuss themes driving global markets.
2025’s Alternatives Summit was about “navigating a world in flux,” as the firm’s recap of its event noted. 
The event aimed to help investors cut through the noise and put together the pieces of the puzzle in a dynamic and increasingly complex world. 
Alt Goes Mainstream joined the event to have unscripted conversations with Goldman Sachs Alternatives leaders to cut through the noise by unpacking key themes and trends at the intersection of private markets and private wealth.
In this special series, we went behind the scenes at the Goldman Sachs Alternatives Conference and interviewed six Goldman Sachs Alternatives leaders about their current thinking on private markets and how the firm has built and evolved its private markets capabilities.
This conversation was with Kristin Olson, Partner, Global Head of Alternatives for Wealth within Asset & Wealth Management and a member of the Management Committee. In her role, she oversees the global alternatives platform and alternatives product strategy across wealth client businesses. Kristin joined Goldman Sachs in 1998 as an Analyst in the Financial Institutions Group in the Investment Banking Division. She was named Managing Director in 2008 and Partner in 2014. Kristin is a member of the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, a leading research institution focusing on cancer, neuroscience, plant biology, genomics, and bioinformatics, and is a member of the Georgetown University Board of Regents. Kristin earned a BS in International Economics, magna cum laude, from Georgetown University in 1998.
Kristin and I had a fascinating conversation about private markets, private wealth, how to approach strategic and tactical asset allocation, the evolving needs of an investor, and why education and financial media are becoming increasingly important tools for investors. We discussed:
Lessons learned from working with Goldman Private Wealth clients that the firm has applied to how they approach serving client needs across the wealth channel with private markets solutions.
Why Millennials are interested in investing in private markets.
How investors can access innovation by investing in private markets.
How can alternative asset managers approach educating the client and investor of the future?
How private markets fits into a strategic asset allocation framework.
The next evolution in private markets education for the wealth channel investor.
The main source of information about private markets for investors.
The future of implementation, model portfolios, and hybrid products in private markets.
Thanks Kristin for sharing your wisdom, expertise, and passion at the intersection of private markets and private wealth.
Show Notes
00:41 Welcome to the Alt Goes Mainstream Podcast
01:35 Kristin Olson's Background and Career Evolution
01:59 The Evolution of Alternative Investments
02:46 Lessons from Goldman Wealth Clients
03:36 Diversification and Education in Alternatives
04:23 Serving Broader Wealth Channels
05:37 Balancing Customization and Scale
07:20 Survey Insights on Millennial Investors
08:44 Building the Goldman Sachs Brand for the Future
09:43 The Importance of Education in Alternatives
10:53 Early Adoption of Private Markets in Wealth Channels
12:28 Consolidation and Partnerships in Private Markets
16:42 Advice for New Investors in Private Markets

Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant.