The Premed Years

(00:00) — First spark for medicine: Medical kit, microscope, and a fascination with how life works.
(03:01) — Surgical tech discovery: How a quarter-life crisis and financial strain led Karen to a trade-school OR program during a UCLA gap year.
(06:58) — Working and studying simultaneously: Managing OR swing shifts and on-call hours while finishing the last two years at UCLA.
(12:35) — The seven-year gap explained: Graduating in 2019, pandemic disruptions, and repeated delays to the application timeline.
(14:25) — Weighing other healthcare careers: Why nursing and PA didn't fit, and what finally locked in the MD decision.
(17:39) — Turning down the first acceptance: The financial reality of a new DO school without federal loan eligibility and a 12.5% private loan rate.
(23:53) — Rebuilding the application: Retaking the MCAT, rewriting the personal statement, and changing the entire strategy.
(28:31) — Early decision to one school: Why Karen applied to a single out-of-state program and what happened when the early decision answer was no.
(34:28) — The acceptance call in Hawaii: What it felt like to hear yes after years of setbacks.
(38:09) — Medical school so far: The scope of what an MD degree actually opens up.
(42:10) — Final words for struggling premeds: What persistence looks like in practice.

Karen path to medical school did not follow a straight line. She left UCLA after financial pressure began dragging her GPA down, spent a year and a half earning a surgical technology certification, worked in hospital operating rooms on swing shifts and on-call hours, and completed a medical mission abroad — all before finishing her undergraduate degree. When she finally applied to medical school, she got in. Then she said no, because the school's private loan interest rate was 12.5% and it was not yet eligible for federal financial aid. She spent the next cycle rebuilding her application from scratch, retaking the MCAT, rewriting her personal statement, and applying via early decision to a single out-of-state school. The acceptance call came while she was standing in an airport in Hawaii. In this conversation, Karen talks candidly about the self-doubt that stretched her timeline, the financial realities that shaped her decisions at every stage, and what finally made the difference in her second application cycle.

What You'll Learn:
- How a surgical technology program can provide deep clinical experience that strengthens a premed application
- Why new medical schools may not qualify for federal student loans and what that means for applicants
- How to decide whether retaking the MCAT is worth it when your existing score is already competitive
- What changes Karen made to her personal statement the second time that she believes made the difference
- Why applying to fewer schools with stronger fit can be a more effective strategy than applying broadly

(00:00) — Welcome and framing: What this conversation is for and who Dami is
(00:40) — Growing up in Lagos: How health inequity planted the seed for medicine
(02:16) — Medicine vs. public health: Why exposure shapes the choice
(04:49) — Athletics first: Arriving in the U.S. and finding track and field before premed
(06:13) — Picking a college for D1 throwing, not for premed academics
(07:07) — Student athlete as a premed: biology major, math minor, Division I track
(09:29) — Premed attrition: Watching classmates — and fellow Black students — drop off
(13:48) — Organic chemistry and the weed-out debate: What hard courses are actually for
(19:35) — Staying the course: The internal drive that outlasts discouragement
(21:05) — The master's decision: Human nutrition at Columbia and what drove it
(24:54) — A family health crisis and the choice to pause the application timeline
(25:47) — Youth counselor in a juvenile detention center: Two years of meaningful work
(27:19) — Clinical hours and COVID: Knowing when enough experience is enough
(30:38) — MCAT attempt one, attempt two, and the lesson between them
(32:01) — Applying to medical school: school count, MD only, and the DO question
(33:09) — Building application support through podcasts, YouTube, and near-peer mentors
(34:43) — The hardest part of the process: waiting after interviews
(35:17) — Four interviews, two acceptances, and choosing Albany Medical College
(37:38) — The first call after getting in
(38:35) — Final words for premed students who feel behind or off track

Dami grew up in Lagos, Nigeria and immigrated to the United States at 13 to start high school. He became a Division I shot putter and discus thrower, earned a master's in human nutrition, paused his medical school timeline to care for a sick parent, and spent two years as a youth counselor in a juvenile detention center before receiving two medical school acceptances. In this conversation with Dr. Ryan Gray, Dami walks through every major decision point on that path with honesty and specificity. They talk about what premed attrition actually looks like from inside a cohort, why organic chemistry gets blamed for something bigger than one course, what it means to take the MCAT twice and apply when you are genuinely ready, and how to build an application that reflects a life that did not follow a straight line. Dami also shares how he found support — through podcasts, YouTube, near-peer mentors at Columbia's medical campus, and a friend applying at the same time from across the country. This episode is for any premed student who has looked at their timeline and wondered whether the detours are going to count against them.

What You'll Learn:
- Why watching premed classmates drop off is one of the hardest parts of the process — and how to stay focused when it happens
- What organic chemistry and other demanding courses are actually training you to do, and why making them easier is not the same as making the process better
- How to decide between applying now and taking more time, including what a master's program or meaningful gap-year work can add to an application
- How to build a support system for the application process when you do not have a dedicated premed advisor at every step
- Why the internal drive to become a physician has to come from within — and how that conviction carries you through a nonlinear path

(00:00) — From physics to premed: Riley describes deciding to pursue medicine at the end of sophomore year after shadowing in medical physics.
(03:37) — Patient transport as a first clinical role: what it taught him about hospital environments and patient interaction.
(04:54) — Staying in the physics major: why switching wasn't necessary and how he fit in prerequisites.
(08:24) — Building the premed timeline late: summer courses, goal-setting by semester, and the gap year decision.
(16:02) — The hardest part of applying: managing secondaries, imposter syndrome, and the waiting game.
(22:23) — Three interviews, three acceptances: what Riley attributes his success to.
(25:46) — Interview prep without sounding scripted: the three-theme framework and how to make it feel like a conversation.
(31:27) — Choosing between schools: how to go beyond the marketing and talk to real students.
(35:47) — Advice for mid-college premeds: taking it one day at a time and celebrating smaller wins.

Riley didn't walk into college planning to become a physician. He was drawn to physics, considered medical physics, shadowed in that field, and only pivoted to medicine at the end of his sophomore year — after a mentor asked whether he'd thought about becoming the doctor in the department instead. What followed was a deliberate, practical process of building a premed application without abandoning the major he actually loved. He stayed in physics, added prerequisites alongside his existing coursework, and leaned into what made his background unusual rather than trying to blend in with the typical biology-major applicant. The result was three interviews and three acceptances. In this conversation, Riley and Dr. Gray cover the real mechanics of that process: how to find shadowing when you have no network, what patient transport actually teaches you, how to prepare for interviews without scripting yourself into a corner, and how to choose between schools once you have options. It's a practical, grounded conversation for any premed who feels behind or wonders whether their non-traditional path is a liability.

What You'll Learn:
- Why staying in a non-biology major can strengthen rather than hurt your application
- How to build a shadowing network from scratch using a referral approach
- What patient transport does and doesn't offer as a clinical experience
- How to prepare for medical school interviews without sounding rehearsed
- How to evaluate medical schools beyond rankings by talking to current students

(00:00) — Family in medicine: How a neurologist mom and a sister in pediatrics shaped Justin's early interest
(03:28) — The chemistry PhD question: Why lab research pushed Justin back toward medicine
(07:14) — Duke and the premed decision: Choosing a school and a major with med school in mind
(09:40) — Applying straight through during COVID: The stress of a compressed timeline and limited clinical access
(14:17) — 37 schools, 3 interviews, 2 waitlists: Breaking down the numbers and the emotional reality
(20:58) — Essay mistakes on reread: What Justin found wrong when he looked at his application months later
(25:56) — Reapplication in real time: Revising essays, lining up a gap year job, and submitting a second cycle
(33:45) — The June phone call: Coming off the University of Maryland waitlist weeks before orientation
(37:12) — Late housing scramble: What it looks like to find an apartment after a June acceptance
(39:57) — For students still waiting: Holding hope and planning for another cycle at the same time

Justin applied to 37 medical schools, earned three interviews, and landed on two waitlists before finally getting the call he had been hoping for — from University of Maryland — in the first week of June. In this conversation, he is candid about what held his application back: clinical and volunteering experiences that started too late because of COVID restrictions, and experience essays that tried to impress readers with technical organic chemistry detail instead of showing personal growth. He also walks through the parallel stress of watching his girlfriend navigate her own application cycle simultaneously, and the practical decisions they made to try to stay geographically close. Justin reflects honestly on the gap year question — he applied straight through from undergrad and now sees real value in what a year away from school can offer. If you are sitting on a waitlist right now or already thinking about a second cycle, his perspective on holding hope while still preparing a backup plan is exactly the kind of grounded, real-world guidance that is hard to find.

What You'll Learn:
- Why starting clinical experiences late can limit what you are able to write about, even if the experiences themselves are meaningful
- How experience essays go wrong when they try to educate the reader on a research topic instead of showing growth and reflection
- What a realistic reapplication process looks like — from rereading old essays to submitting a focused second cycle
- How to hold on to waitlist hope without letting it delay your preparation for another cycle
- What the logistics of a late waitlist acceptance actually involve, from housing to orientation timelines

(00:00) — Pre-k graduation and "I want to be a baby doctor": Where the idea of medicine first appeared for Riya.
(01:07) — Seventh-grade biology and Hashimoto's thyroiditis: The classroom moment that made medicine feel like a real possibility.
(02:24) — Hospital volunteering in high school: First clinical exposure, patient interaction, and what sparked genuine interest.
(04:57) — Discovering combined BSMD and BSDO programs: How Riya and her mom researched programs in eleventh grade and decided to pursue them.
(06:45) — Reflecting on the accelerated path: Whether finishing undergrad in three years meant missing out.
(07:15) — The MCAT decision: Why avoiding the MCAT was a meaningful factor in choosing a program.
(09:12) — Applying to 23 schools: The breakdown of combined versus traditional applications and getting into four programs.
(10:05) — Choosing between programs: Family proximity, location, and the DO philosophy as deciding factors.
(10:54) — Why DO over MD: What the osteopathic mind-body-spirit philosophy and hands-on technique meant to her personally.
(12:22) — Conditional acceptance pressure in undergrad: Carrying valedictorian stress into a three-year sprint.
(13:42) — The hardest semester: o-chem, biochem, and anatomy simultaneously with three concurrent labs.
(14:45) — Physical planners and time management: How Riya stayed on top of classes, tutoring, and two research projects.
(15:33) — Finding The Premed Years on a two-hour drive: How the podcast became part of her routine.
(17:10) — Medical school versus premed undergrad: Why the schedule now feels more manageable.
(19:14) — Finding your own study method: Why copying what works for others often backfires.
(24:19) — Menstrual health app, a thousand-dollar prize, and a TikTok research project: How curiosity led to unexpected opportunities.
(26:54) — Words for the stressed premed: Gratitude journals, getting back up, and holding on to small happy moments.

Riya knew she wanted to be a doctor before she could fully explain what that meant. By eleventh grade she was researching combined BSDO and BSMD programs with her mom, and she eventually applied to around fifteen of them alongside traditional schools. She got into four combined programs and chose a three-plus-four DO pathway that let her stay near family during undergrad before moving states for medical school. The cost was real: she finished prerequisites in three years, took organic chemistry, biochemistry, and anatomy in the same semester with three concurrent labs, tutored classmates, and ran two research projects simultaneously. She also drove two hours home most weekends and, on those drives, found this podcast. Now in medical school and studying for Step, Riya reflects on choosing DO over MD, what the osteopathic philosophy genuinely gave her, and why she has no regrets about any of it. She talks honestly about the stress of a conditional acceptance, the trial and error of finding a study method that actually works, and how keeping a gratitude journal got her through a brutal first semester away from family.

What You'll Learn:
- How combined BSMD and BSDO programs work and what it actually takes to stay in one through undergrad.
- Why one student chose a DO program over MD programs she was also accepted to, and what that decision has meant in practice.
- How to manage an overwhelming premed course load using intentional time planning rather than sheer willpower.
- Why finding your own study method matters more than copying the approaches that work for classmates.
- How following genuine curiosity across research, hackathons, and extracurriculars can open doors that a straight-line approach would miss.