The Premed Years

(00:00) — Family in medicine: How a neurologist mom and a sister in pediatrics shaped Justin's early interest
(03:28) — The chemistry PhD question: Why lab research pushed Justin back toward medicine
(07:14) — Duke and the premed decision: Choosing a school and a major with med school in mind
(09:40) — Applying straight through during COVID: The stress of a compressed timeline and limited clinical access
(14:17) — 37 schools, 3 interviews, 2 waitlists: Breaking down the numbers and the emotional reality
(20:58) — Essay mistakes on reread: What Justin found wrong when he looked at his application months later
(25:56) — Reapplication in real time: Revising essays, lining up a gap year job, and submitting a second cycle
(33:45) — The June phone call: Coming off the University of Maryland waitlist weeks before orientation
(37:12) — Late housing scramble: What it looks like to find an apartment after a June acceptance
(39:57) — For students still waiting: Holding hope and planning for another cycle at the same time

Justin applied to 37 medical schools, earned three interviews, and landed on two waitlists before finally getting the call he had been hoping for — from University of Maryland — in the first week of June. In this conversation, he is candid about what held his application back: clinical and volunteering experiences that started too late because of COVID restrictions, and experience essays that tried to impress readers with technical organic chemistry detail instead of showing personal growth. He also walks through the parallel stress of watching his girlfriend navigate her own application cycle simultaneously, and the practical decisions they made to try to stay geographically close. Justin reflects honestly on the gap year question — he applied straight through from undergrad and now sees real value in what a year away from school can offer. If you are sitting on a waitlist right now or already thinking about a second cycle, his perspective on holding hope while still preparing a backup plan is exactly the kind of grounded, real-world guidance that is hard to find.

What You'll Learn:
- Why starting clinical experiences late can limit what you are able to write about, even if the experiences themselves are meaningful
- How experience essays go wrong when they try to educate the reader on a research topic instead of showing growth and reflection
- What a realistic reapplication process looks like — from rereading old essays to submitting a focused second cycle
- How to hold on to waitlist hope without letting it delay your preparation for another cycle
- What the logistics of a late waitlist acceptance actually involve, from housing to orientation timelines

(00:00) — Pre-k graduation and "I want to be a baby doctor": Where the idea of medicine first appeared for Riya.
(01:07) — Seventh-grade biology and Hashimoto's thyroiditis: The classroom moment that made medicine feel like a real possibility.
(02:24) — Hospital volunteering in high school: First clinical exposure, patient interaction, and what sparked genuine interest.
(04:57) — Discovering combined BSMD and BSDO programs: How Riya and her mom researched programs in eleventh grade and decided to pursue them.
(06:45) — Reflecting on the accelerated path: Whether finishing undergrad in three years meant missing out.
(07:15) — The MCAT decision: Why avoiding the MCAT was a meaningful factor in choosing a program.
(09:12) — Applying to 23 schools: The breakdown of combined versus traditional applications and getting into four programs.
(10:05) — Choosing between programs: Family proximity, location, and the DO philosophy as deciding factors.
(10:54) — Why DO over MD: What the osteopathic mind-body-spirit philosophy and hands-on technique meant to her personally.
(12:22) — Conditional acceptance pressure in undergrad: Carrying valedictorian stress into a three-year sprint.
(13:42) — The hardest semester: o-chem, biochem, and anatomy simultaneously with three concurrent labs.
(14:45) — Physical planners and time management: How Riya stayed on top of classes, tutoring, and two research projects.
(15:33) — Finding The Premed Years on a two-hour drive: How the podcast became part of her routine.
(17:10) — Medical school versus premed undergrad: Why the schedule now feels more manageable.
(19:14) — Finding your own study method: Why copying what works for others often backfires.
(24:19) — Menstrual health app, a thousand-dollar prize, and a TikTok research project: How curiosity led to unexpected opportunities.
(26:54) — Words for the stressed premed: Gratitude journals, getting back up, and holding on to small happy moments.

Riya knew she wanted to be a doctor before she could fully explain what that meant. By eleventh grade she was researching combined BSDO and BSMD programs with her mom, and she eventually applied to around fifteen of them alongside traditional schools. She got into four combined programs and chose a three-plus-four DO pathway that let her stay near family during undergrad before moving states for medical school. The cost was real: she finished prerequisites in three years, took organic chemistry, biochemistry, and anatomy in the same semester with three concurrent labs, tutored classmates, and ran two research projects simultaneously. She also drove two hours home most weekends and, on those drives, found this podcast. Now in medical school and studying for Step, Riya reflects on choosing DO over MD, what the osteopathic philosophy genuinely gave her, and why she has no regrets about any of it. She talks honestly about the stress of a conditional acceptance, the trial and error of finding a study method that actually works, and how keeping a gratitude journal got her through a brutal first semester away from family.

What You'll Learn:
- How combined BSMD and BSDO programs work and what it actually takes to stay in one through undergrad.
- Why one student chose a DO program over MD programs she was also accepted to, and what that decision has meant in practice.
- How to manage an overwhelming premed course load using intentional time planning rather than sheer willpower.
- Why finding your own study method matters more than copying the approaches that work for classmates.
- How following genuine curiosity across research, hackathons, and extracurriculars can open doors that a straight-line approach would miss.

(00:00) — Welcome and origin spark: Kiki’s path starts without an “aha” and a teacher’s nudge changes everything.
(02:24) — First shadowing, open-heart: A six-hour quadruple bypass leaves her captivated.
(03:48) — Type B and present: Owning a goal without over-planning in high school.
(04:29) — Balancing D2 hoops and premed: Small-school community and time management pay off.
(07:19) — Burnout and a late college switch: Signing in July and embracing a non-linear path.
(08:55) — Making premed work: Professors, small classes, and athlete study groups.
(10:03) — The grind of student-athlete life: Exhaustion, rigid schedules, and living by the calendar.
(11:38) — What gave way: Long-distance friendships and less family check-ins.
(13:24) — First app cycle misses: 506 MCAT, six-week prep, content over practice, and low volunteering.
(17:17) — Reapplicant moves: Earlier timing, pharmacy tech year, and next-day secondaries.
(19:54) — Widening the net: Adding DO schools and securing acceptances.
(20:53) — Discovering HPSP: Out-of-state sticker shock leads her to the Navy.
(23:39) — Parents’ buy-in and commissioning: From doubts to pride; acceptance to October commissioning.
(26:16) — Military match realities: Deployment risk and the “assignment” mindset.
(30:29) — Final takeaway: Keep trying—“what’s meant for you won’t miss you.

Kiki didn’t have a dramatic origin story—no early illness or single defining moment. A high school anatomy teacher’s question and a mesmerizing first shadowing of a six-hour open-heart surgery nudged her toward medicine. She kept living fully as a type B student who played Division II basketball, learning time management the hard way: rigid schedules, constant travel, and studying through exhaustion. In this conversation, Kiki unpacks being a reapplicant after a 506 MCAT and limited volunteer hours, what she fixed the second time—earlier timing, practice questions over rereads, quick secondaries—and why she initially applied to only two schools. She explains how medical transport and later working as a pharmacy technician broadened her clinical lens. When out-of-state tuition topped $80,000, she took a hard look at Navy HPSP, did her homework beyond recruiter promises, and chose the scholarship—even after getting off a local waitlist later. Kiki shares how she reframed setbacks, how much community mattered, and what realistically concerns her about the military match: deployment and accepting “assignments.” Her closing message to premeds is clear and steady—keep doing the work, stay intentional, and trust that what’s meant for you won’t miss you.

What You'll Learn:
- How a D2 athlete built time management without sacrificing premed
- What went wrong in her first cycle and how she changed it
- Why she chose Navy HPSP and how she evaluated the trade-offs
- Ways transport and pharmacy tech roles expand clinical exposure

(00:00) — Ear cleaning origin: A childhood earwax ritual lights the first spark for medicine.
(01:25) — Writer first, then premed: Entering college for writing before finding patient care through EMT work.
(02:10) — EMT on campus: Deescalation, student calls, and heavy mental health moments.
(03:27) — Suicide hotline: Human-to-human conversations that clarified her desire to be a physician.
(04:10) — Medicine vs therapy: Drawn to anatomy and physiology while honoring psych’s importance.
(05:45) — Apocalypse-proof skills: Why medicine felt enduring through pandemics, borders, and war.
(07:32) — Query-letter essay: How a creative application and workshop hustle shaped her identity.
(08:55) — Premed pressure: Cutting hobbies, feeling locked out of creativity, and the regret that followed.
(11:31) — The rat race and AMCAS: Hours, comparison culture, and resisting the 15-activity myth.
(15:04) — Rest as training: Reframing hobbies as recovery to prevent burnout and learn better.
(15:59) — What stood out: Interviews focused on her writing more than her activity count.
(18:19) — Reapplying after COVID: Canceled MCAT, delayed app, and an external nudge to pause.
(20:01) — Perspective shift: Time off, returning to writing, and no longer feeling behind.
(23:11) — Ready the second time: Growth, humility, and being prepared to start medicine.
(24:42) — First acceptance: Relief, joy, and finally buying the book she’d saved for that day.
(26:02) — Personal statement redo: From listing achievements to writing about who she is.
(27:06) — Med school + novels: Supportive team, deadlines, and writing as catharsis.
(28:43) — Step 2 vs deadlines: Balancing dedicated study with book edits on a tight schedule.
(30:10) — Dark fiction and stakes: Embracing perimortem themes and high-impact care.
(32:24) — Pathology curiosity: Autopsies, TV inspirations, and creative crossover.
(33:09) — Can students work?: Policy gray areas and being featured regardless.
(33:47) — Zero-sum myth: Why gym, games, and hobbies can make you a better learner.
(36:24) — Guilt and games: Mario Kart, streaming, and naming the pressure to always study.
(37:13) — Permission to be human: Keep your passions—people, not checklists, become doctors.

Vanessa’s path to medicine started with a childhood ear-cleaning ritual and grew through college EMT shifts and suicide hotline work that centered real human connection. In this conversation, she and Dr. Gray unpack the premed rat race—the pressure to pack 15 activities, the guilt of cutting hobbies, and the lie that every minute not studying sets you back. Vanessa candidly shares applying twice, including a COVID-canceled MCAT that delayed her first cycle, the external nudge to pause, and the growth and humility that made her ultimately ready to be accepted. She explains how interviews gravitated to her writing, why her second personal statement focused on who she is rather than everything she did, and how she now balances med school with novel deadlines—treating writing as both catharsis and a job, while preparing for Step 2. Along the way: apocalypse-proof humor, a reframe of rest as part of training, and a clear message to premeds and medical students alike—keep the passions that make you human. Because people, not checklists, become doctors.

What You'll Learn:
- How campus EMT and suicide hotline roles shaped a patient-first “why medicine”
- What changed between a late, COVID-impacted first cycle and a successful reapplication
- Why focusing your personal statement on who you are can resonate more than listing activities
- Practical ways to protect hobbies in premed and med school without burning out
- How interviews may lean into your authentic passions—even more than your hours

(00:00) — Welcome and setup: from premed dropout to med student
(00:47) — Corporate grind sparks the spreadsheets vs patients question
(01:30) — Rewinding to undergrad premed and the 495 MCAT during COVID
(03:15) — Finances and first-gen pressure push him off the path
(04:35) — Articles, AI, and volunteering rekindle interest in medicine
(06:10) — Leadership draw: why physician responsibility appealed to him
(07:10) — Timeline: research job, 2018 grad, 2020 MCAT, business analytics at Fordham
(09:05) — Undergrad habits, no planner, and managing ADHD with better tools
(11:05) — Corporate wins build confidence (Big Four, Wall Street, AVP)
(12:50) — Planning the leap: savings, living at home, loans, and side investments
(14:10) — Bridge/SMP at Toro Harlem: structure and guaranteed-seat criteria
(16:25) — Working at Citibank while starting the master’s; then going all in
(17:55) — Confirming fit: brief shadowing, almost passing out, but more intrigued
(18:55) — Harlem community events as a student doctor and seeing disparities
(19:52) — MCAT retake to 501–502; Kaplan and official full-lengths
(21:27) — SMP mirrored M1 exams; Z-score cutoff and comprehensive exam
(22:45) — M1 transition is easier after the SMP run-through
(23:35) — Logistics: 3.45 GPA + comp exam = seat; could apply elsewhere
(24:25) — Starting a tea franchise in Astoria with partners during M1
(25:35) — Brick-and-mortar stress, construction, and opening mid-semester
(26:50) — Hardest part: letting go of a six-figure salary
(28:05) — Would he change his path? Choosing experience over speed
(29:20) — Exploring passions helps future practice and options
(30:52) — Keeping doors open: medicine, consulting, and business
(31:28) — Parents’ reaction: skepticism to tears of pride
(32:34) — Final advice: build confidence and believe in yourself

Zarak shares how he walked away from premed after a 495 MCAT and an average undergrad GPA, chased a thriving corporate career, and then found his way back to medicine. A first-gen student, he talks openly about family expectations, finances, and why spreadsheets and commutes couldn’t replace patient impact. He explains the planning that made his return possible: saving while living at home, using loans wisely, and enrolling in a one-year bridge/SMP at Toro Harlem that mirrored M1 exams and offered a guaranteed seat with a 3.45 GPA plus a comprehensive exam. He retook the MCAT to around 501–502 using Kaplan and official full-lengths, and found confidence through improved study systems and corporate-built habits. Now an M1, he’s volunteering in Harlem, reflecting on health disparities, and even launching a brick-and-mortar tea franchise in Astoria with partners—while keeping med school first. Dr. Gray and Zarak dig into letting go of a six-figure salary, rebuilding confidence, managing ADHD with better tools, and why exploring interests outside of medicine can strengthen your future as a physician.

What You'll Learn:
- How a low MCAT and average GPA didn’t end his med school goals
- What a guaranteed-seat bridge/SMP at Toro Harlem required
- How he planned the leap: savings, loans, and timing while working
- MCAT retake resources he used the second time around
- Balancing M1 demands with launching a brick-and-mortar business