The FOX True Crime Podcast

In Part Two of their conversation, Chanley and veteran forensic psychologist Dr. Jeffrey Smalldon discuss the overarching patterns of extreme violence between some of the world's most notorious killers.

Drawing from five decades of experience and insights from his memoir, That Beast Was Not Me: One Forensic Psychologist, Five Decades of Conversations with Killers.

Dr. Smalldon opens up about the most disturbing case of his career, the origin behind his book's title, and what it was really like to sit down with Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, and John Wayne Gacy.



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A massive police raid on a Philadelphia home uncovered more than a million digital files, images of five missing women and a basement filled with chemicals, raising new questions about a father-son duo and the late father's eerily specific serial-killer memoir.
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Former American Idol contestant Caleb Flynn is on trial for allegedly killing his wife of nearly 16 years and staging the Ohio crime scene to make it appear she was shot by an intruder.
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Forensic psychologist Dr. Jeffrey Smalldon has spent decades studying the criminal mind, coming face-to-face with some of America’s most notorious killers.

In Part One of his conversation with Chanley, Dr. Smalldon reveals how an early fascination with crime led him to correspond with Charles Manson and Ted Bundy and recounts his chilling encounters with John Wayne Gacy and serial killer Donald Harvey. He shares what those interactions taught him about manipulation, violence, and the unsettling reality of the people behind some of the country’s most infamous crimes.

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Nearly four decades after a newborn baby was found dead in a Texas laundromat, genetic genealogy led investigators to his mother, Tammy Sue Kerns, who has now pleaded guilty to second-degree murder.
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