Leading Saints Podcast

The first Friday of each month in Zion Lab, Kurt Francom hosts a livestream where we review the latest happenings and conversations taking place in Zion Lab and across our online community.

In this Zion Lab Live, Kurt reviews recent community discussions from the Zion Lab platform, focusing on member missionary engagement, teaching culture, and church administration. Rather than conducting a traditional interview, Kurt highlights insights posted by community members around appointment cancellations and modern doctrinal framing. The central topic explores how local leaders can balance relational ministering with the deeper covenant commitments found in the restored gospel.

Links

Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community



Highlights

00:01:34 – Experience at Southern Virginia University

00:03:44 – Overview of Zion Lab Community

00:04:50 – Discussion on Mental Health and Therapy

00:05:45 – September Topics Recap

00:06:27 – Missionary Work Challenges

00:09:40 – Engaging Investigators in Lessons

00:11:08 – Discussion on Christolatry

00:15:03 – Balancing Grace and Accountability

00:20:06 – Importance of Covenants in Worship

Key Insights

Zion Lab as a Resource: Kurt highlights Zion Lab as a vital online community for Latter-day Saint leaders, offering resources, discussions, and live streams that enhance leadership skills and community engagement.

Missionary Work Challenges: A discussion centered on the difficulties missionaries face with appointment cancellations, suggesting that stronger relationships between members and investigators can improve commitment and attendance.

Cultural Considerations: The conversation acknowledges that cultural attitudes towards time and scheduling can impact appointment keeping, emphasizing the need for leaders to understand these differences.

Christolatry Concerns: Kurt raises the issue of “Christolatry,” where an overemphasis on Christ’s love may overshadow the call for personal growth and adherence to church teachings, suggesting a need for balance in messaging.

Generational Shifts in Teaching: There is a recognition of changing teaching styles and language within the church, with some members longing for a more balanced approach that includes both grace and accountability.

Leadership Applications

Fostering Relationships: Leaders can encourage members to actively engage with missionaries and investigators, helping to create a supportive environment that values personal connections and accountability.

Cultural Sensitivity: Understanding cultural differences can help leaders manage expectations and improve the effectiveness of missionary efforts, ensuring that appointments are respected and valued.

Balanced Messaging: Leaders should strive to communicate the importance of both Christ’s love and the necessity of personal growth, ensuring that teachings reflect the comprehensive nature of the restored gospel. This can help prevent misunderstandings and foster a deeper commitment to church principles.

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

James Fletcher is the founder and chief investment officer of Ethos Investment Management, and has been investing professionally in emerging markets for 20 years. He is also the founder of the global non-profit Young Investors Society, which provides lessons to teens on investing and financial literacy in over 3,000 high schools and 80 countries around the world. James has a bachelor’s degree in Finance from Brigham Young University and also teaches as a BYU adjunct professor in Finance. He has lived in a variety of places, from Boston to Brazil and Los Angeles to Hong Kong, and currently lives in Springville, Utah, with his wife and five children, where he serves as a bishop in the Hobble Creek Springville Utah Stake.

Links

The Bishopric & the Youth | A How I Lead Interview with James Fletcher

Young Investors Society: YIS.org

Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community



Highlights

James talks about his experiences as a bishop in Mapleton, Utah, focusing on leadership principles that foster community and connection within the church. He discusses the importance of loving individuals as Christ did and the impact of engaging with both active and less-active members.

Key Insights

One-by-One Leadership: Emphasizing the inefficiencies of traditional leadership, James highlights the importance of personal connections and individualized attention, mirroring Christ’s approach to ministry.

Community Engagement: James discusses how his ward has shifted from church-centric activities to community-focused events, fostering relationships with all residents in the canyon, regardless of their church attendance.

Inviting Growth: He shares the success of involving youth as ward missionaries, allowing them to teach and engage with both members and non-members, which has led to increased participation and spiritual growth.

Exporting Strength: Leaders are encouraged to look beyond their immediate community and share their strengths and resources globally, exemplified by members in his ward who have initiated impactful projects in other countries.

Cultural Shift: The importance of creating a culture of belonging and love within the ward is emphasized, ensuring that everyone feels needed and valued, regardless of their church activity.

Leadership Applications

Foster Personal Connections: Latter-day Saint leaders can prioritize one-on-one interactions with members, ensuring that everyone feels seen and valued, which can lead to greater engagement and spiritual growth.

Community-Centric Activities: By organizing events that include the broader community, leaders can build relationships that extend beyond church walls, creating a more inclusive environment.

Empower Youth: Leaders can implement programs that allow youth to take on responsibilities, such as teaching or missionary work, which not only prepares them for future service but also strengthens the ward community.

00:02:53 – Building a Zion Community

00:04:26 – Christlike Leadership Principles

00:06:01 – Connecting with the Community

00:08:41 – The Importance of Love and Service

00:09:34 – Establishing a Culture of Belonging

00:12:39 – A Powerful Sacrament Meeting Experience

00:14:26 – The Role of Personal Visits

00:15:02 – Inviting Others to Serve

00:17:01 – Broadening the Net

00:21:01 – Proactive Ministering Efforts

00:22:48 – Daily Prayer for Individuals

00:24:37 – Community Connections

00:25:22 – Exporting Strength

00:31:04 – Inviting Youth to Grow

00:36:12 – The Inefficiency of Seeking the One

00:41:37 – The Healing Power of the Atonement

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Brigham Young University professor and religious folklorist Christopher Blythe discusses the nature of revelation, spiritual manifestations, and claims to mysticism within Latter-day Saint history and culture. The conversation examines how members and leaders can evaluate personal spiritual experiences, navigate claims of revelation that exceed proper authority, and guard against deceptive influences or speculative practices.

Dr. Christopher Blythe is an assistant professor of English at BYU, where he teaches courses on folklore, myth, and Latter-day Saint literature. He holds a PhD in American Religion from Florida State University, an MA in History from Utah State University, and a BA in Religious Studies from Utah State University. Professionally, Dr. Blythe has worked extensively as a religious folklorist and historian, including previous roles with the Joseph Smith Papers Project, the Church History Department, and as a research associate at the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship. He is also the author of Terrible Revolution: Latter-day Saints and the American Apocalypse, a study on millenarianism and lay visions in Church history.

As a convert who joined the Church at age 13, Dr. Blythe’s research centers on “vernacular religion”—exploring how everyday members live, share, and interpret their faith on the ground. Over the years, he has served in various Church callings, including as a missionary in West Virginia, a high priest group leader, and in various local leadership and teaching assignments. He resides in Utah with his family, where he also co-hosts online content exploring Latter-day Saint history and folklore.

Links

Dr. Blythe’s Lost Library

Angels and Seerstones

LDS Uncorrelated

Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community



Highlights

00:03:00 – Dr. Christopher Blythe on Religious Folklore and Vernacular Religion

00:06:22 – Navigating Mysticism, Personal Stories, and Spiritual Trump Cards

00:09:18 – Calling Members, Priesthood Keys, and Avoiding Manipulation

00:17:11 – Cultural Misconceptions Around Foreordination and Pre-Existence

00:20:34 – Hiram Page, D&C 28, and the Order of Revelatory Authority

00:23:25 – Kirtland Manifestations, D&C 50 & 52, and Trying the Spirits

00:29:21 – Continuationism, Manifestations, and Modern Church History

00:35:16 – Discernment and Circles of Confidence in Sharing Personal Revelations

00:44:17 – Recognizing Divine Manifestations and the Baptism of Fire

00:47:10 – Cognitive Bias, Discomfort, and the Cost of Discipleship

00:54:02 – The 1913 Dream Mine First Presidency Statement on Speculation

01:02:37 – Offshoot Movements, Energy Healing, and Focusing on the Family

01:09:05 – Addressing Doubts, Questions, and Counterfeit Revelations

01:12:41 – Handbook Guidance on Energy Healing

Key Insights

Vernacular Religion & Interpretation: Official Church handbooks, scriptures, and doctrines provide structure, but “vernacular religion”—how individual members interpret and live their faith on the ground—shapes how spiritual experiences and calls are experienced day-to-day.

Hierarchy and Bounds of Revelation: Early Church history, such as the 1830 revelation regarding Hiram Page’s seer stone (D&C 28), established the fundamental principle that while all members are entitled to personal revelation for their own spheres, only the head of the Church receives revelation to direct the Church as a whole.

Trying the Spirits: Grounded in early revelations (such as D&C 50 and 52), leaders and members are instructed to “try the spirits” to ensure spiritual manifestations align with standard Church doctrine, priesthood channels, and sound judgment rather than self-serving claims or deceptive influences.

Mysticism vs. Daily Discipleship: Spiritual trump cards or over-mystifying administrative decisions can lead to manipulation or unrealistic expectations. True spiritual grounding often manifests in consistent, daily acts of service and devotion—particularly within the family—rather than sensational claims.

Historical Warnings Against Deception: Historical declarations, such as the 1913 First Presidency statement on the “Dream Mine,” warn against individuals using claims of visions, dreams, or private revelations to induce members into financial schemes, speculative ventures, or movements that undermine established priesthood authority.

Leadership Applications

Guiding Council Dynamics: Leaders can prevent individuals from using “spiritual trump cards” (e.g., claiming a strong spiritual feeling to override council discussions) by maintaining that decisions should be made through open, prayerful deliberation under proper priesthood keys.

Handling Boundary-Crossing Claims: When members present private revelations intended to direct others, advise the ward, or promote speculative groups, leaders can refer to foundational principles of stewardship to gently clarify that personal inspiration applies only within one’s assigned sphere or family.

Reframing Calls and Service: Leaders can help members focus on covenant-keeping and everyday Christlike living, reducing the cultural tendency to view callings or leadership roles through an ego-driven or hyper-mystical lens.

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Shawn Vanderhoven is the author of the USA Today bestseller Pause: How to Lead Brilliant Work in a Busy World and a Partner at The Wiseman Group, where he leads the executive development practice for senior leaders and rising talent. A collaborator on the New York Times bestseller Multipliers: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter (Second Edition), Shawn co-designs strategies that help organizations amplify their people, advising leaders at companies like Amazon, Alphabet, Adobe, Microsoft, and Salesforce. He holds a BS in History from Brigham Young University and lives in the San Francisco Bay Area with his wife, Anne, dedicated to helping leaders create the conditions where teams can focus on what matters most.

In the Church, Shawn has served as an Elders Quorum President and holds a deep passion for working with the rising generation, having served as a Young Men president four different times.



Links

Pause: How to Lead Brilliant Work in a Busy World

LinkedIn: Shawn Vanderhoven

Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community

Highlights

Shawn Vanderhoven discusses concepts from his book Pause: How to Lead Brilliant Work in a Busy World. The conversation explores how leaders can help their teams avoid constant distractions, hyperconnectivity, and superficial busyness. Shawn highlights how shifting from an action-oriented mindset to an impact-oriented approach creates room for meaningful focus in both corporate and Church settings.

00:03:42 – The Moment of Inspiration for Writing the Book

00:04:52 – Chaos and Lack of Clarity in Leadership

00:06:46 – Research on Focus and Distraction

00:08:31 – The Impact of Hyper-Connectivity on Leadership

00:10:13 – Challenges Faced by Church Leaders

00:12:10 – The Default of Hyper-Connected Communication

00:13:07 – Advice for Leaders in the Whirlwind

00:14:26 – Assumptions About Work and Meetings

00:15:27 – Bias Towards Action vs. Bias Towards Impact

00:18:57 – Clarity in Leadership and Prioritization

00:20:30 – The Importance of Focus in Leadership

00:22:25 – Creating a Culture of Open Communication

00:23:43 – Delegation and Respecting Time

00:25:35 – Counseling Before Extending Callings

00:30:25 – Tuning In Before Jumping In

00:32:20 – The Role of Revelation in Leadership Decisions

00:37:54 – Respecting Individual Circumstances in Callings

Key Insights

Action vs. Impact: A bias toward action often causes frantic busyness and shifting priorities, whereas a bias toward impact prioritizes high-value outcomes and clear goals.

Clarify Priorities: The primary source of distraction for most teams is a lack of clear priorities. Focusing on a few core objectives reduces burnout and improves execution.

Counseling Before Calling: Extending callings or tasks effectively requires counseling with individuals beforehand to understand their current capacity and life constraints.

Holding a Clearing: Creating structured systems where individuals can express emotional or interpersonal frustrations removes distractions and clears the mental runway for high-level work.

Establishing “House Rules”: Leaders must set explicit expectations around communication and meetings to prevent hyperconnectivity from overwhelming team members.

Put Growth on the Agenda: Dedicating regular time in one-on-one meetings to align an individual’s personal development with organizational needs builds long-term commitment.

Leadership Applications

Define What Not to Do: When focusing a ward or organization on specific spiritual goals, leaders should explicitly set aside lower-priority initiatives so members can direct their energy effectively.

Tune In Before Jumping In: Instead of utilizing “drive-by delegation” or abrupt task handoffs, leaders should ask what someone is currently managing and discuss what can be removed from their plate to accommodate new assignments.

Set Clear Communication Boundaries: Bishoprics and council leaders can establish ward “house rules” regarding text messaging, response times, and off-hours communication to protect personal lives and prevent burnout.

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Davis Smith is the founder, chairman, and emeritus CEO of Cotopaxi, a Salt Lake City–based outdoor gear brand dedicated to poverty alleviation. Raised throughout Latin America, he developed a lifelong commitment to social impact after witnessing economic inequality firsthand. A serial e-commerce entrepreneur, Davis founded several successful ventures, including Brazil’s 2012 “Startup of the Year,” before building Cotopaxi into a global brand that has assisted millions living in poverty. He has served as a Presidential Leadership Scholar and a member of the United Nations Foundation’s Global Leadership Council.

Alongside his career in social business, Davis is a Senior Fellow at Yale University’s Jackson School of Global Affairs, where he teaches courses on leadership and social entrepreneurship. Davis and his wife, Asialene, are the parents of four children and have served extensively in Church leadership, including as mission leaders in the Brazil Recife North Mission (2023–2026) and in a stake presidency. He holds degrees from BYU and the Wharton School and is the author of The Next Ten Years.

Links

The Next Ten Years: A Returned Missionary’s Guide to the Decade That Shapes Your Life

Weaving a Vision into Your Service | An Interview with Davis Smith

Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community

Highlights

In this YouTube livestream conversation, Kurt and Davis talk about navigating post-mission transitions, applying practical life skills, and developing lifelong discipleship centered on Jesus Christ.

00:01:27 – Davis Smith’s Mission Experience

00:02:14 – Missionary Statistics and Diversity

00:03:02 – Background in Brazil

00:04:42 – Overview of the Book Project

00:05:08 – Life Lessons from Zone Conferences

00:07:21 – Importance of Lifelong Discipleship

00:09:02 – Connecting Mission Skills to Life Skills

00:10:34 – Preparing Missionaries for Post-Mission Life

00:11:05 – Sending Off Missionaries

00:12:49 – The Contract for Return Missionaries

00:14:44 – The Significance of Marco Zero

00:15:15 – Maintaining Relationships with Returned Missionaries

00:15:46 – Intimate Compassion and the Good Samaritan

00:18:57 – Selecting Principles for the Book

00:21:00 – Book Release and Formats

00:21:54 – The Importance of the Next 10 Years

00:23:45 – Critical Times for Return Missionaries

00:26:27 – Spiritual Growth After the Mission

00:28:51 – Finding Purpose After a Mission

00:30:38 – Supporting Return Missionaries

00:32:13 – Advice for Parents of Return Missionaries

Key Insights

Connecting Mission Skills to Real-Life Success: The competencies developed on a mission—such as goal setting, communication, team coordination, and networking—directly translate into professional, financial, and relational success when returned missionaries learn to connect those dots.

Intimate Compassion (Oil Before Wine): Drawing from the parable of the Good Samaritan, effective leadership and personal correction require establishing love and empathy (“oil”) before offering invitation, counsel, or direction (“wine”).

Aiming for Continuous Growth, Not Maintenance: A spiritual peak reached during dedicated service should serve as a baseline for future growth rather than a status to merely maintain.

Immediate Post-Mission Focus & Purpose: The initial three to six months after full-time service are the most critical for establishing daily habits, securing church callings, avoiding technology distractions, and redirecting focus outward toward community service.

Financial Stewardship Early in Life: Establishing foundational financial habits—such as paying tithing first, saving consistently, and utilizing simple long-term investment vehicles like index funds—early in adulthood creates long-term independence and security.

Leadership Applications

Ask Intentional, Reflective Questions: Rather than asking for casual stories, leaders and parents can help returned missionaries process their service by asking targeted questions about spiritual gifts discovered, personal habits to keep, and lessons learned from mission leaders.

Provide Clear Purpose and Responsibility: Local leaders can ease tough life transitions by extending meaningful callings or mentoring assignments early on, helping individuals shift their focus away from self-centered anxiety and toward serving others.

Support Alternate & Service Mission Paths: Leaders should exercise empathy and avoid judgment when a mission ends unexpectedly or transitions to a service mission, recognizing that God’s plan and approval apply to all sincere efforts to serve.

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.