Leading Saints Podcast

When a woman taken in adultery—a capital crime under Mosaic law—was brought before the Savior, He didn’t condemn her. He said, “Go, and sin no more.” Why? BYU professor Breck Wightman joins us to explore how the Lord really responds to our sins, and why it may be different than you think.

Breck Wightman is an Assistant Professor in the Romney Institute of Public Service and Ethics at Brigham Young University, where he teaches human resource management, economics, and public policy in the MPA program. His research focuses on leadership, succession, hiring, and person-organization fit. In addition to his academic work, he owns a speaking and training company and is a regular presenter at BYU Education Week.

Within the Church, Breck recently completed his service in a bishopric and currently serves on his stake high council.

Links

Breck Wightman’s PowerPoint Slides

Share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

Transcript available in the Zion Lab community

Highlights

In this conversation, Breck outlines a scriptural framework distinguishing willful rebellion and hypocrisy from mortal weakness, explaining how understanding divine mercy transforms personal discipleship and ecclesiastical leadership.

00:04:28 – Formulating the Topic: How God Responds to Weakness

00:05:22 – Scriptural Episode: The Woman Taken in Adultery

00:10:32 – Understanding Sin and Its Consequences

00:11:25 – Defining Sin: Law and Knowledge

00:12:32 – Accountability and Covenant Relationships

00:16:07 – The Nature of Weakness vs. Rebellion

00:22:10 – Exploring Rebellion: Active vs. Passive

00:25:33 – Consequences of Rebellion

00:26:04 – Sons of Perdition: The Worst Form of Rebellion

00:30:01 – The Complexity of Sin and Stigma

00:33:13 – Understanding Hypocrisy in Actions

00:40:05 – The Nature of Weakness and Its Implications

00:44:28 – The Lord’s Perspective on Weakness vs. Rebellion

Key Insights

Types of Sin: The discussion emphasizes that not all sins are equal. Sin can be categorized into rebellion, hypocrisy, and weakness, each eliciting different responses from God.

Rebellion vs. Weakness: Rebellion involves a willful rejection of God’s commandments, while weakness reflects a sincere desire to do good but falling short due to human limitations. God responds to rebellion with consequences, whereas He approaches weakness with mercy.

Intentions Matter: The motivations behind actions are crucial. Good actions with bad intentions lead to hypocrisy, while bad actions with good intentions indicate weakness. Understanding this distinction can help individuals and leaders navigate their spiritual journeys.

Scriptural Examples: The episode references the story of the woman taken in adultery to illustrate how Jesus showed mercy to those who struggle with weakness, contrasting this with His condemnation of the hypocritical Pharisees.

Grace and Accountability: The conversation highlights that accountability increases with knowledge of the law, but God’s grace allows for growth and learning over time. Leaders should recognize that individuals may be in different stages of understanding and repentance.

Leadership Applications

Fostering Compassion: Latter-day Saint leaders can cultivate a compassionate environment by recognizing the difference between weakness and rebellion in their congregants, offering support rather than condemnation.

Encouraging Open Dialogue: Leaders should create spaces for honest discussions about struggles with sin, allowing members to express their weaknesses without fear of judgment, thereby promoting healing and growth.

Tailoring Responses: Understanding the nuances of sin can help leaders tailor their counsel and support to meet the specific needs of individuals, focusing on mercy and encouragement rather than strict punitive measures.

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Todd Hillyard shares practical ideas his ward has used to increase youth engagement in sacrament meeting. He discusses how youth feedback reframed his ward’s approach to sacrament meeting, including shorter talks, youth-focused speaker assignments, auxiliary-centered Sundays, and meaningful ways to involve young women and young men in ushering, music, prelude, organ, and testimony sharing.

Todd currently serves as a bishop in Washington, having previously served in Young Men presidencies, on the high council, and in bishoprics. A pediatric dentist for 25 years and founder of Adventure Dental, he works with children and youth all day with a specialized focus on airway health—helping kids sleep better and thrive through nose breathing. Todd completed his undergraduate studies at Brigham Young University, earned his dental degree at the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio, and completed his postgraduate pediatric dental specialty at UCLA.

Outside of his practice, Todd considers his most profound accomplishment and life calling to be a father to his 18-year-old son, who is non-verbal and has Phelan-McDermid syndrome. Navigating both the deep challenges and fulfilling joys of special-needs parenting has molded him in ways he never imagined, deepening the empathy and heart he brings to ministering to young people. On a lighter note, Todd loves to dance and performs with the “Daddy-O’s,” a crew of about a dozen middle-aged men attempting hip-hop routines under the coaching and choreography of his 15-year-old daughter.

Links

Stimulating Sunday School Discussion… But Not Too Much | An Interview with Julie Hillyard

Teaching Restored

www.adventuredental.com

Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community



Highlights

00:03:18 – Youth Leadership in Sunday Worship

00:03:30 – Engaging Youth Feedback

00:04:53 – Demographics of the Ward

00:05:37 – Youth Feedback on Sacrament Meeting

00:06:52 – Gathering Youth Insights

00:07:30 – Implementing Changes Based on Feedback

00:08:18 – Prelude Music Initiative

00:10:23 – Variety in Prelude Music

00:12:00 – Prelude Timing and Structure

00:13:19 – Importance of Engaging Prelude Music

00:14:18 – Short Talks in Sacrament Meeting

00:15:26 – Eliminating Intermediate Hymns

00:16:18 – Impromptu Choirs

00:18:04 – Youth Leading Music

00:19:09 – Youth Empowerment in Leadership Roles

00:21:25 – Testimony Meeting Dynamics

00:22:15 – Shortening Talks for Engagement

00:23:56 – Youth-Led Sunday Meetings

00:25:38 – Encouraging Youth Testimonies

00:27:34 – Supporting Young Men in Sacrament

00:28:04 – Christmas Tradition with Missionaries

00:29:00 – Testimony Meeting Improvements

00:30:22 – Monthly Youth Leader Meetings

00:32:05 – Collaboration with Adult Leaders

00:33:41 – Engaging Stake Leaders

00:36:02 – Importance of Presiding in Meetings

00:37:07 – Colette’s Experience with Youth Feedback

Key Insights

Youth Engagement: Todd emphasizes the importance of involving youth in church meetings, encouraging them to share their thoughts on what makes sacrament meetings engaging and spiritually fulfilling.

Prelude Music: Implementing prelude music performed by youth has transformed the atmosphere of sacrament meetings, fostering reverence and engagement from the congregation.

Short Talks: Todd has shifted the focus from long, traditional talks to shorter, more impactful messages, allowing for multiple speakers and encouraging participation from youth.

Special Programs: The introduction of themed Sundays, such as Young Women’s Sunday, allows youth to take charge of the meeting, enhancing their sense of ownership and responsibility.

Testimony Meetings: Encouraging youth to bear their testimonies regularly has revitalized testimony meetings, making them more relevant and engaging for the entire congregation.

Collaboration with Stake Leaders: Todd actively communicates with stake leaders to ensure their messages resonate with youth, making sacrament meetings more relatable and engaging.

Leadership Applications:

Leadership Applications

Create Opportunities for Youth Leadership: Leaders can implement youth-led initiatives, such as music prelude or testimony meetings, to foster a sense of ownership and responsibility among young members.

Adapt Meeting Formats: By shortening talks and incorporating more musical numbers or youth-led discussions, leaders can create a more engaging and spiritually uplifting environment.

Encourage Open Dialogue: Leaders should seek feedback from youth about their experiences and preferences in church settings, allowing for adjustments that enhance participation and spiritual growth.

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

The first Friday of each month in Zion Lab, Kurt Francom hosts a livestream where we review the latest happenings and conversations taking place in Zion Lab and across our online community.

In this Zion Lab Live, Kurt reviews recent community discussions from the Zion Lab platform, focusing on member missionary engagement, teaching culture, and church administration. Rather than conducting a traditional interview, Kurt highlights insights posted by community members around appointment cancellations and modern doctrinal framing. The central topic explores how local leaders can balance relational ministering with the deeper covenant commitments found in the restored gospel.

Links

Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community



Highlights

00:01:34 – Experience at Southern Virginia University

00:03:44 – Overview of Zion Lab Community

00:04:50 – Discussion on Mental Health and Therapy

00:05:45 – September Topics Recap

00:06:27 – Missionary Work Challenges

00:09:40 – Engaging Investigators in Lessons

00:11:08 – Discussion on Christolatry

00:15:03 – Balancing Grace and Accountability

00:20:06 – Importance of Covenants in Worship

Key Insights

Zion Lab as a Resource: Kurt highlights Zion Lab as a vital online community for Latter-day Saint leaders, offering resources, discussions, and live streams that enhance leadership skills and community engagement.

Missionary Work Challenges: A discussion centered on the difficulties missionaries face with appointment cancellations, suggesting that stronger relationships between members and investigators can improve commitment and attendance.

Cultural Considerations: The conversation acknowledges that cultural attitudes towards time and scheduling can impact appointment keeping, emphasizing the need for leaders to understand these differences.

Christolatry Concerns: Kurt raises the issue of “Christolatry,” where an overemphasis on Christ’s love may overshadow the call for personal growth and adherence to church teachings, suggesting a need for balance in messaging.

Generational Shifts in Teaching: There is a recognition of changing teaching styles and language within the church, with some members longing for a more balanced approach that includes both grace and accountability.

Leadership Applications

Fostering Relationships: Leaders can encourage members to actively engage with missionaries and investigators, helping to create a supportive environment that values personal connections and accountability.

Cultural Sensitivity: Understanding cultural differences can help leaders manage expectations and improve the effectiveness of missionary efforts, ensuring that appointments are respected and valued.

Balanced Messaging: Leaders should strive to communicate the importance of both Christ’s love and the necessity of personal growth, ensuring that teachings reflect the comprehensive nature of the restored gospel. This can help prevent misunderstandings and foster a deeper commitment to church principles.

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

James Fletcher is the founder and chief investment officer of Ethos Investment Management, and has been investing professionally in emerging markets for 20 years. He is also the founder of the global non-profit Young Investors Society, which provides lessons to teens on investing and financial literacy in over 3,000 high schools and 80 countries around the world. James has a bachelor’s degree in Finance from Brigham Young University and also teaches as a BYU adjunct professor in Finance. He has lived in a variety of places, from Boston to Brazil and Los Angeles to Hong Kong, and currently lives in Springville, Utah, with his wife and five children, where he serves as a bishop in the Hobble Creek Springville Utah Stake.

Links

The Bishopric & the Youth | A How I Lead Interview with James Fletcher

Young Investors Society: YIS.org

Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community



Highlights

James talks about his experiences as a bishop in Mapleton, Utah, focusing on leadership principles that foster community and connection within the church. He discusses the importance of loving individuals as Christ did and the impact of engaging with both active and less-active members.

Key Insights

One-by-One Leadership: Emphasizing the inefficiencies of traditional leadership, James highlights the importance of personal connections and individualized attention, mirroring Christ’s approach to ministry.

Community Engagement: James discusses how his ward has shifted from church-centric activities to community-focused events, fostering relationships with all residents in the canyon, regardless of their church attendance.

Inviting Growth: He shares the success of involving youth as ward missionaries, allowing them to teach and engage with both members and non-members, which has led to increased participation and spiritual growth.

Exporting Strength: Leaders are encouraged to look beyond their immediate community and share their strengths and resources globally, exemplified by members in his ward who have initiated impactful projects in other countries.

Cultural Shift: The importance of creating a culture of belonging and love within the ward is emphasized, ensuring that everyone feels needed and valued, regardless of their church activity.

Leadership Applications

Foster Personal Connections: Latter-day Saint leaders can prioritize one-on-one interactions with members, ensuring that everyone feels seen and valued, which can lead to greater engagement and spiritual growth.

Community-Centric Activities: By organizing events that include the broader community, leaders can build relationships that extend beyond church walls, creating a more inclusive environment.

Empower Youth: Leaders can implement programs that allow youth to take on responsibilities, such as teaching or missionary work, which not only prepares them for future service but also strengthens the ward community.

00:02:53 – Building a Zion Community

00:04:26 – Christlike Leadership Principles

00:06:01 – Connecting with the Community

00:08:41 – The Importance of Love and Service

00:09:34 – Establishing a Culture of Belonging

00:12:39 – A Powerful Sacrament Meeting Experience

00:14:26 – The Role of Personal Visits

00:15:02 – Inviting Others to Serve

00:17:01 – Broadening the Net

00:21:01 – Proactive Ministering Efforts

00:22:48 – Daily Prayer for Individuals

00:24:37 – Community Connections

00:25:22 – Exporting Strength

00:31:04 – Inviting Youth to Grow

00:36:12 – The Inefficiency of Seeking the One

00:41:37 – The Healing Power of the Atonement

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Brigham Young University professor and religious folklorist Christopher Blythe discusses the nature of revelation, spiritual manifestations, and claims to mysticism within Latter-day Saint history and culture. The conversation examines how members and leaders can evaluate personal spiritual experiences, navigate claims of revelation that exceed proper authority, and guard against deceptive influences or speculative practices.

Dr. Christopher Blythe is an assistant professor of English at BYU, where he teaches courses on folklore, myth, and Latter-day Saint literature. He holds a PhD in American Religion from Florida State University, an MA in History from Utah State University, and a BA in Religious Studies from Utah State University. Professionally, Dr. Blythe has worked extensively as a religious folklorist and historian, including previous roles with the Joseph Smith Papers Project, the Church History Department, and as a research associate at the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship. He is also the author of Terrible Revolution: Latter-day Saints and the American Apocalypse, a study on millenarianism and lay visions in Church history.

As a convert who joined the Church at age 13, Dr. Blythe’s research centers on “vernacular religion”—exploring how everyday members live, share, and interpret their faith on the ground. Over the years, he has served in various Church callings, including as a missionary in West Virginia, a high priest group leader, and in various local leadership and teaching assignments. He resides in Utah with his family, where he also co-hosts online content exploring Latter-day Saint history and folklore.

Links

Dr. Blythe’s Lost Library

Angels and Seerstones

LDS Uncorrelated

Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community



Highlights

00:03:00 – Dr. Christopher Blythe on Religious Folklore and Vernacular Religion

00:06:22 – Navigating Mysticism, Personal Stories, and Spiritual Trump Cards

00:09:18 – Calling Members, Priesthood Keys, and Avoiding Manipulation

00:17:11 – Cultural Misconceptions Around Foreordination and Pre-Existence

00:20:34 – Hiram Page, D&C 28, and the Order of Revelatory Authority

00:23:25 – Kirtland Manifestations, D&C 50 & 52, and Trying the Spirits

00:29:21 – Continuationism, Manifestations, and Modern Church History

00:35:16 – Discernment and Circles of Confidence in Sharing Personal Revelations

00:44:17 – Recognizing Divine Manifestations and the Baptism of Fire

00:47:10 – Cognitive Bias, Discomfort, and the Cost of Discipleship

00:54:02 – The 1913 Dream Mine First Presidency Statement on Speculation

01:02:37 – Offshoot Movements, Energy Healing, and Focusing on the Family

01:09:05 – Addressing Doubts, Questions, and Counterfeit Revelations

01:12:41 – Handbook Guidance on Energy Healing

Key Insights

Vernacular Religion & Interpretation: Official Church handbooks, scriptures, and doctrines provide structure, but “vernacular religion”—how individual members interpret and live their faith on the ground—shapes how spiritual experiences and calls are experienced day-to-day.

Hierarchy and Bounds of Revelation: Early Church history, such as the 1830 revelation regarding Hiram Page’s seer stone (D&C 28), established the fundamental principle that while all members are entitled to personal revelation for their own spheres, only the head of the Church receives revelation to direct the Church as a whole.

Trying the Spirits: Grounded in early revelations (such as D&C 50 and 52), leaders and members are instructed to “try the spirits” to ensure spiritual manifestations align with standard Church doctrine, priesthood channels, and sound judgment rather than self-serving claims or deceptive influences.

Mysticism vs. Daily Discipleship: Spiritual trump cards or over-mystifying administrative decisions can lead to manipulation or unrealistic expectations. True spiritual grounding often manifests in consistent, daily acts of service and devotion—particularly within the family—rather than sensational claims.

Historical Warnings Against Deception: Historical declarations, such as the 1913 First Presidency statement on the “Dream Mine,” warn against individuals using claims of visions, dreams, or private revelations to induce members into financial schemes, speculative ventures, or movements that undermine established priesthood authority.

Leadership Applications

Guiding Council Dynamics: Leaders can prevent individuals from using “spiritual trump cards” (e.g., claiming a strong spiritual feeling to override council discussions) by maintaining that decisions should be made through open, prayerful deliberation under proper priesthood keys.

Handling Boundary-Crossing Claims: When members present private revelations intended to direct others, advise the ward, or promote speculative groups, leaders can refer to foundational principles of stewardship to gently clarify that personal inspiration applies only within one’s assigned sphere or family.

Reframing Calls and Service: Leaders can help members focus on covenant-keeping and everyday Christlike living, reducing the cultural tendency to view callings or leadership roles through an ego-driven or hyper-mystical lens.

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.