Beat The Prosecution- Fairfax, Virginia, Criminal Defense / DUI Lawyer

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To persuade others, it is important to transform oneself not only to their perspective, but their full being, feelings, relevant experiences, sense of place and even unsettlement, and thought process. That approach, with psychodrama (working out challenges with role playing, reverse role playing, and scene setting), is a big part of the Trial Lawyers College, which I attended for a full month, and which is featured in several of my Beat The Prosecution interviews. 
Anam Petit, with the Murray Osorio law firm, is the second former immigration judge to join me on my podcast, the first being my law school immigration clinic and class professor Paul Grussendorf. With Anam, I dig deeper into strengthening one's persuasion chops by seeing matters from the judge's perspective. 
Unlike most "views from the bench" programs I have attended, where the judges are usually restrained in giving tips to lawyers (for instance saying to be fully prepared and fully considerate of judges and opponents, rather than really letting their hair down),  Anam holds nothing back in sharing her two years of experience as an immigration judge (during the Biden and Trump administrations) and her perspective of the wide range of lawyering she experienced, including her frustration at the swath of lawyers whose work was subpar to the detriment of their clients, when her role limited her ability to help rectify the situation. 
Anam underlines the importance of getting one's persuasive point across succinctly, rather than through repetition or plodding. She talks about how she would assess the credibility she witnesses. Anam underlines how demanding was her full docket and about working through lunch and needing to be highly organized to keep up timely with her work. When lawyers and other litigants work with those demands, that can pay off for the persuader. 
Now back to private law practice, mainly representing individual non-United States citizens, Anam addresses dealing with the trauma of many clients -- as is often the case for criminal defense lawyers, as well as-- and the challenges of keeping a balance in one's life when individuals are relying tremendously on our delivering them great service, and in some instances hoping we will pull a rabbit out of our hats. 
Anam is frank about the need to overhaul the immigration judging system -- which heavily includes hearings where people risk deportation -- including to make immigration courts Constitutional Article III courts (like the federal District Courts and Circuit Courts) so that immigration judges do not feel their judicial independence threatened by risking being fired by the Justice Department -- that employs them, and perverts the process  by unabashedly characterizing such judges as "deportation judges" in their immigration judge hiring webpage  --for not pleasing the DOJ or presidential administration in general. 
In a predecessor interview with another interviewer, Anam addresses sticking to her oath at all times. The current administration terminated a slew of immigration judges appointed during Democratic administrations, and Anam was one of those so terminated after nearly two years. Notable is her lack of bitterness over that termination and the positive words she has to say about the people at the immigration courts who continue focusing on doing the right thing. 
Anam has been active with the public interest group Arrived (renamed from Asylum Works)  Donations can be made to that group at this link. 
This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). 

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

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Michigan lawyer Patrick Barone is the third Beat the Prosecution podcast guest who has both attended the Trial Lawyers College and been active with the National College for DUI Defense. Patrick for years pursued a DWI defense focus before attending the TLC, and then he jumped both feet forward into intensive learning and training with psychodrama -- which is a major feature of the Trial Lawyers College that has been covered numerous times on this podcast -- becoming certified in psychodrama after many years of devoting substantial time to this approach of psychotherapy and working out challenges through role playing and reverse role playing, and much more.  As his and his wife Elizabeth Corby's Michigan Psychodrama Center page says, Patrick is a Board Certified trainer, educator and practitioner of psychodrama, sociometry and group psychotherapy, which is no small feat to add to an already busy criminal defense law practice. 
Listen as Patrick addresses with Fairfax criminal defense lawyer Jon Katz how psychodrama can be used for lawyers to prepare their entire trial and courtroom presentations, and prepare their clients to testify. Patrick talks about the possibility of speaking from the first person as the breathalyzer machine in a DUI case, taking exception to the breath test operator who does not enable the machine to do its job properly by not inspecting the suspect's mouth for foreign objects, to preclude the machine from testing for mouth alcohol rather than deep lung alcohol. 
Patrick  tells of one instance about using psychodrama doubling to relate and connect directly with his client. He talks about using psychodrama on himself to work out his issues with authority, in order to unblock his challenging interactions with a judge he repeatedly encounters. He differentiates the difference between righteous indignation at a police officer during cross examination, and alienating jurors who do not perceive a justification to be indignant. He talks about advocating in the moment, and understanding others from their perspective and from putting ourselves into their shoes. 
Beyond all that, Patrick talks of pursuing a pre-med path in college and then retooling to be a lawyer over such matters as his strong support for a robustly protected Second Amendment. He repeatedly writes about artificial intelligence for lawyers. His AI substack newsletter is at https://patrickbarone.substack.com Each month, he and his wife hold psychodrama sessions. 
Patrick makes a good point that often the psychodramatists in the room are not lawyers, and the lawyers are usually not psychodramatists. He is both. 
This Beat the Prosecution episode is also available on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPdJ-7Tf_Zc and https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/winning-by-integrating-with-the-moment-patrick-barone/id1721413675?i=1000783081810
This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). 

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

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Buddhist nun Venerable Thubten Chodron of Sravasti Abbey returns for a second time to talk with Fairfax, Virginia, criminal defense lawyer Jonathan Katz, this time to discuss Venerable's 2025 book incorporating experiential stories from inmates, and also the beautiful artwork by many of them, entitled The Key of Compassion- Finding Meaning Where You Least Expect It.
The ideal for a criminal defendant is to avoid conviction and incarceration. However, judges and court magistrates do not always grant pretrial release, and not all convicted people avoid incarceration. Consequently, this is the second Beat the Prosecution episode that removes the mystery about handling incarceration, and focuses on keeping grounded and resilient while detained. The first episode on that topic was with Fleet Maull, a dharma teacher who served a fourteen year sentence for a federal drug conviction at the end of the twentieth century. By removing the mystery of incarceration, criminal defendants can be bolder and more confident in fighting their prosecutions along with their lawyers. 
Jon Katz first heard of Venerable Chodron from Rodger Kamenetz's The Jew In the Lotus (where Chris Berlin's description of the jewel in the lotus is "boundless compassion that is fully responsive to suffering and moves us to alleviate that suffering unconditionally and spontaneously as we encounter it" and where om mani padme hum apparently praises the jewel in the lotus). As it happened, when Jon first  invited Venerable Chodron to this podcast, she and those at her abbey were already very involved with helping inmates, and The Key of Compassion was already in the works. 
Jon Katz recommends donating to Sravasti Abbey's Prison Dharma Fund, reading The Key of Compassion and also donating the book to prisons and other detention centers, for the availability of inmates. The best way to learn how to donate spiritual books to detention centers is probably to contact the institution's chaplain. 
This episode is also available on YouTube and Apple podcasts. 
This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). 

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

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Winning for criminal defendants integrates teaming up closely and well with our clients, life experience, successful trial experience, improving ourselves, and persuasively engaging others, for starters.

Our podcast guest Kimberly Benjamin, in Missouri, includes integrating the approaches of the Trial Lawyers College, the National College of DUI Defense and more to start obtaining justice for defendants even before any trial starts. 
I first learned about Kim through our connection to the Trial Lawyers College, which she attended and where Kim ultimately joined the staff. How necessarily frank was Kim when walking into her first meeting of the Missouri criminal defense lawyers association, asking where were the women, and then soon becoming a member of its board.
This episode is also available on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjHDLhhePg0 and Apple podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/winning-before-trial-even-begins-kim-benjamin/id1721413675?i=1000777978177

Fairfax Criminal Lawyer / Virginia DUI Attorney Jonathan L. Katz pursues your best defense against felony, misdemeanor, DUI, drug & sex prosecutions. Defending in Fairfax County, Arlington, Loudoun, Prince William & Beyond. 

Call 703-383-1100 for a free in-person consultation with Jon Katz about your court-pending criminal case. KatzJustice.com
This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). 

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

Send us Fan Mail
Non-United States citizens are at more risk than in decades with their criminal cases, and many times starting while the prosecution is still pending in court. Harsh treatment of non-U.S. citizens did not start from whole cloth with Donald Trump, but he and his tough-on-immigrants supporters have taken the matter to an entirely higher quantum level. And still we have safeguards, including the Senate's non-action on H.R. 875, which would have made green card holders deportable for a conviction of driving under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs (aka DUI, DWI, OWI and OUI). 
With the situation for non-United States citizens and undocumented people in the United States getting no better -- and in many instances worse (for instance with the widespread application of no bond for immigration detainees) -- the time is ripe for the return after sixteen months of crimmigration expert Ofelia L. Calderón, to whom your host Fairfax criminal defense lawyer Jonathan Katz repeatedly turns for on-the-money advice and opinion letters for his non-United States citizen criminal defense clients. 
Criminal defense lawyers need to understand the immigration risks for certain convictions, sentences, and procedures.  In 2010, the United States Supreme Court included correct advice about adverse immigration consequences from criminal cases within the Sixth Amendment’s Effective Assistance of Counsel clause. Padilla v. Kentucky, 559 U.S. 356 (2010). Crimmigration law is so nuanced that no primer exists to teach this to criminal defense lawyers in but one sitting. This Virginia crimmigration chart from Amica does not end the essential learning needed by criminal defense lawyers, but at least propels the matter forward. 
Beyond the political winds that affect immigration law and enforcement policy, we have practical considerations that have been around for decades, including Crespo v. Holder, 631 F.3d 130 (4th Cir., Jan. 11, 2011), which lets us know to beware whether a seeming sweetheart deal is really a sweetheart deal when considering the adverse immigration, financial and personal consequences that can come from a wide panoply of criminal case dispositions. 
Furthermore, non-United States citizens without legal permanent residence / green cards need to be particularly cautious about leaving the United States while their criminal cases are pending in court. Learn much more about all of this and plenty more in this podcast episode. 
This podcast is also available on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYSoVvHK3PI and on Apple podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/winning-by-navigating-the-crimmigration-landmines/id1721413675?i=1000776851879
This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). 

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675