The John Batchelor Show

SHOW SCHEDULE
1-19-2026
1914 FLAG DAY WITH WILSON, BRYAN, ROOSEVELT

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine discusses President James Buchanan's January 4, 1861, national fast day, intended to unite a fracturing nation through prayer and repentance. While old-school Presbyterians like Charles Hodge supported this call for divine intervention, the effort largely failed to forestall war. The event highlighted three distinct groups of religious nationalists: conservative Unionists, anti-slavery Republicans viewing slavery as a national sin, and pro-slavery theologians defending the institution on scriptural grounds.

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine explains that President-elect Lincoln did not view Republicans as overly aggressive, positioning himself as a constitution-respecting centrist rather than a radical. Lincoln opposed slavery's expansion but acknowledged its constitutional protection where it already existed, believing the South was misled by elites and would eventually return to the Union. Ironically, Lincoln and Buchanan, though political opposites, worshiped at the same Washington church, sharing an old-school Presbyterian background.

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. In September 1861, Lincoln proclaimed a fast day, carefully avoiding specific references to slavery to maintain political unity. Carwardine details the conflict surrounding General Frémont's unauthorized emancipation order, which Lincoln revoked to prevent losing loyal border states like Kentucky. Consequently, anti-slavery nationalists used the pulpits to criticize Lincoln's caution, demanding the war become an explicit crusade against the "gigantic crime" of slavery rather than just a restoration of the Union.

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. The discussion turns to Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens' "Cornerstone Speech," which explicitly defined racial inequality as the Confederacy's foundation, a stance widely condemned in the North. Carwardine notes that despite earlier tensions, Lincoln viewed his fast days as successful, utilizing them and meetings with religious delegations to gauge public sentiment and prepare the ground for eventual emancipation. Lincoln valued these interactions to influence and learn from denominational leaders.

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine details the intense political opposition Lincoln faced in 1863 following the Emancipation Proclamation. He highlights Clement Vallandigham, a "Peace Democrat" leader who viewed the war as unwinnable and Lincoln as a "Puritan despot." Carwardine explains that the Democraticcoalition was fractured by religion, specifically between Catholics and Protestants, yet united in opposing the administration. Lincoln ultimately banished Vallandigham to the Confederacy to neutralize his influence.

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine discusses James McMaster, the Catholic editor of the Freeman's Journal, characterizing him as an extraordinary polemicist who was imprisoned for his "vituperations" against the war. McMaster argued the war denied the rights of free men and refused to retract his views upon release. The segment also features Samuel "Sunset" Cox, a Democrat who famously attacked New England Puritanism as the source of the nation's meddling and moral extremity.

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. The discussion turns to the Union's "low point" in August 1864, where Lincoln expected to lose the election to Democrat George McClellan. Carwardine describes the Democraticcampaign as "brokenbacked" for pairing a general with a peace platform. However, the fall of Atlanta revived Union hopes. Carwardine emphasizes how pastors articulated a "higher cause"—the preservation of a unique republican government—to justify the war's terrible "bloodletting" and sacrifice.

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine analyzes the war's conclusion and Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address, which framed the conflict as divine judgment for the shared offense of slavery. He notes that Lincoln intended a Reconstruction based on charity and "absence of malice," rather than punishment. By 1865, Lincoln's views had evolved to support citizenship for African American veterans, though his assassination left the specific blueprint for the nation's reintegration unfinished and uncertain.

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. In 1925, the Tennessee legislature passed the Butler Act, banning the teaching of evolution in public schools. At Robinson's drugstore in Dayton, local booster George Rapier and others recruited 24-year-old science teacher John Scopes to violate the law as a test case to generate publicity for the town. Although Scopes was knowingly guilty, the ACLU backed the defense to challenge the law's constitutionality regarding the separation of church and state.

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. The ACLU, seeking to defend religious liberty and raise its profile, seized upon the Scopes case. While the board considered prestigious constitutional lawyers, the notorious Clarence Darrowvolunteered his services pro bono because he viewed the Butler Act as bigoted. Despite the ACLU's hesitation regarding Darrow's controversial reputation from the Leopold and Loeb trial, Scopes insisted on having the "street fighter" Darrow defend him against William Jennings Bryan.

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. Clarence Darrow was a celebrated attorney known for his "downhome" jury appeals and defense of the marginalized. Mentored by progressive John Altgeld, Darrow built a reputation defending labor unions, socialists like Eugene Debs, and the poor against powerful corporations. However, his career suffered a "bad patch" following the McNamara brothers' bombing case in Los Angeles, where Darrow himself faced trials for allegedly bribing a juror, leaving him with a checkered reputation.

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. Three-time presidential candidate William Jennings Bryan joined the prosecution to revive his political career and defend fundamentalism. Famous for his populist "Cross of Gold" speech, Bryan had become rigid in his views, advocating for prohibition and a literal reading of the Bible. He viewed the trial as a platform to combat the theory of evolution, which he believed deprived children of a moral center and denied the miracles of creation.

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. Fundamentalist Judge John T. Raulston presided over the trial, enjoying the publicity brought by loudspeakers and radio coverage. The defense included civil liberties lawyer Arthur Garfield Hayes, a secular Jew, serving as a constitutional anchor. Meanwhile, William Jennings Bryan arrived as a celebrity in a pith helmet, though Scopes noted Bryan ignored his own diabetes by overeating at dinner, revealing a disconnect between his fundamentalist beliefs and medical science.

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. The defense suffered a major setback when the judge ruled that their scientific experts could not testify before the jury, forcing them to read affidavits into the record instead. H.L. Mencken, the acerbic journalist who dubbed the event the "Monkey Trial," covered the proceedings. Sympathetic to Darrow and critical of Bryan's "fanatic" views, Mencken influenced public perception, though the jury remained shielded from the scientific evidence the defense hoped to present.

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. During a stifling heatwave, the trial moved outdoors where Darrow executed a shocking maneuver by calling prosecutor William Jennings Bryan to the witness stand. Darrow interrogated Bryan on his literal interpretation of the Bible, questioning stories like Jonah and the whale. Bryan faltered, admitting creation "days" might be metaphorical periods, which undermined his fundamentalist position and allowed Darrow to humiliate him regarding his knowledge of history, geology, and world religions.

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. The trial ended abruptly with a guilty verdict, denying Bryan his closing speech; he died days later, likely due to heat, stress, and diabetes. John Scopes eventually became a geologist and lived a reclusive life, refusing to exploit his fame. Darrow's later career fluctuated, including a controversial defense in the racially charged Massie trial in Hawaii, before his death in 1938, leaving behind a complex legacy beyond the "Inherit the Wind" narrative.

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. The trial ended abruptly with a guilty verdict, denying Bryan his closing speech; he died days later, likely due to heat, stress, and diabetes. John Scopes eventually became a geologist and lived a reclusive life, refusing to exploit his fame. Darrow's later career fluctuated, including a controversial defense in the racially charged Massie trial in Hawaii, before his death in 1938, leaving behind a complex legacy beyond the "Inherit the Wind" narrative.
1925 BRYAN'S FUNERAL AT ARLINGTON

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. During a stifling heatwave, the trial moved outdoors where Darrow executed a shocking maneuver by calling prosecutor William Jennings Bryan to the witness stand. Darrow interrogated Bryan on his literal interpretation of the Bible, questioning stories like Jonah and the whale. Bryan faltered, admitting creation "days" might be metaphorical periods, which undermined his fundamentalist position and allowed Darrow to humiliate him regarding his knowledge of history, geology, and world religions.
1860 SPENCER TRACY AS CLARENCE DARROW, "INHERIT THE WIND."

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. The defense suffered a major setback when the judge ruled that their scientific experts could not testify before the jury, forcing them to read affidavits into the record instead. H.L. Mencken, the acerbic journalist who dubbed the event the "Monkey Trial," covered the proceedings. Sympathetic to Darrow and critical of Bryan's"fanatic" views, Mencken influenced public perception, though the jury remained shielded from the scientific evidence the defense hoped to present.
1960 FREDERIC MARCH AS WILLIAM JENNINGS BRYAN "INHERIT THE WIND"

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. Fundamentalist Judge John T. Raulston presided over the trial, enjoying the publicity brought by loudspeakers and radio coverage. The defense included civil liberties lawyer Arthur Garfield Hayes, a secular Jew, serving as a constitutional anchor. Meanwhile, William Jennings Bryan arrived as a celebrity in a pith helmet, though Scopes noted Bryan ignored his own diabetes by overeating at dinner, revealing a disconnect between his fundamentalist beliefs and medical science.
1925 SCOPES TRIAL CARTOON