So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

• Ep. 239: Columbia University, Mahmoud Khalil, DEI, law firms, and more

  We explore how censorship is impacting institutions — from universities to law firms to the Maine House of Representatives. Timestamps:  00:00 Intro 01:40 Federal government cuts Columbia’s funding 16:57 Updates on the Mahmoud Khalil case 27:01 Ed Martin’s Georgetown letter 34:59 Trump targeting law firms 55:01 Maine House censure of Rep. Laurel Libby 01:03:37 Outro Read the transcript. Guests: - Will Creeley, FIRE’s legal director - Conor Fitzpatrick, FIRE’s supervising senior attorney - Lindsie Rank, FIRE’s director of campus rights advocacy  Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email [email protected]. Show notes: - “DOJ, HHS, ED, and GSA announce initial cancelation of grants and contracts to Columbia University worth $400 million” U.S. Department of Justice (2025) - HHS, ED, and GSA follow up letter to Columbia. U.S. Department of Health & Human Services, U.S. Department of Education, U.S. Government Services Administration (2025) - “Columbia yields to Trump in battle over federal funding” The Wall Street Journal (2025) - “Advancing our work to combat discrimination, harassment, and antisemitism at Columbia” Columbia University (2025)   - “Columbia caves to feds — and sets a dangerous precedent” FIRE (2025) - “ED, HHS, and GSA Respond to Columbia University’s Actions to Comply with Joint Task Force Pre-Conditions” U.S. Department of Education (2025) - “FIRE demands answers from Trump admin officials on arrest of Mahmoud Khalil” FIRE (2025) - “Brief of Amici Curiae in Support of Petitioner's Motion for Preliminary Injunction - Khalil v. Joyce” FIRE (2025) - “​​We will be revoking the visas and/or green cards of Hamas supporters in America so they can be deported.” Secretary of State Marco Rubio via X (2025) - “‘ICE proudly apprehended and detained Mahmoud Khalil, a radical foreign Pro-Hamas student on the campus of @Columbia University. This is the first arrest of many to come.’ President Donald J. Trump” The White House via X (2025) - “WATCH: White House downplays stock market declines as ‘a snapshot’” PBS NewsHour (2025) - “Secretary Rubio's remarks to the press” U.S. Department of State (2025) - “Mahmoud Khalil. Notice to appear.” Habeeb Habeeb via X (2025) - “Alien and Sedition Acts” National Archives (1798) - Ed Martin’s letter to Georgetown Law Dean William Treanor. (2025) - Dean Treanor’s response to Ed Martin. (2025) - “Trump, Perkins Coie and John Adams” The Wall Street Journal (2025) - “Suspension of Security Clearances and Evaluation of Government Contracts” The White House (2025) - “Addressing Risks from Perkins Coie LLP” The White House (2025) - “Addressing risks from Paul Weiss” The White House (2025) - “Lawyers who anger the Feds face new penalties by decree” The CATO Institute (2025) - “Today, President Donald J. Trump agreed to withdraw his March 14, 2025 Executive Order regarding the Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP law firm (‘Paul, Weiss’), which has entered into the following agreement with the President…” President Trump via TruthSocial (2025) - “Head of Paul, Weiss says firm would not have survived without deal with Trump” The New York Times (2025) - “House resolution relating to the censure of Representative Laurel D. Libby of Auburn by the Maine House of Representatives” Maine House of Representatives (2025) - “Maine’s censure of lawmaker for post about trans student-athlete is an attack on free speech” FIRE (2025) - “Maine State Rep. Laurel Libby disagreed with biological males competing in women’s sports, and now, the Maine State House is censuring her.” Sen. Kennedy via X (2025) - “The open society and its enemies” Karl Popper (1945) - “Cyber rights: Defending free speech in the digital age” Mike Godwin (1995)

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• Ep. 238: On Mahmoud Khalil

  First Amendment lawyer Marc Randazza and immigration lawyer Jeffrey Rubin join the show to discuss the arrest, detention, and possible deportation of green card holder Mahmoud Khalil. Timestamps:  00:00 Intro 00:53 Latest updates on Khalil 02:51 First Amendment implications 06:08 Legal perspectives on deportation 11:54 Chilling effects on free expression 21:06 Constitutional rights for non-citizens 24:03 The intersection of free speech and immigration law 27:02 Broader implication of immigration policies 37:51 Outro Read the transcript here. Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email [email protected]. Show notes: - “​​We will be revoking the visas and/or green cards of Hamas supporters in America so they can be deported.” Secretary of State Marco Rubio via X (2025) - “‘ICE proudly apprehended and detained Mahmoud Khalil, a radical foreign Pro-Hamas student on the campus of @Columbia University. This is the first arrest of many to come.’ President Donald J. Trump” The White House via X (2025) - “WATCH: White House downplays stock market declines as ‘a snapshot’” PBS NewsHour (2025) - “Secretary Rubio's remarks to the press” U.S. Department of State (2025) - “Mahmoud Khalil. Notice to appear.” Habeeb Habeeb via X (2025)

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• Ep. 237: A tech policy bonanza! The FCC, FTC, AI regulations, and more

  Does a cat stand on two legs or four?  The answer to that question may tell you all you need to know about the government involving itself in social media content moderation. On today’s show, we cover the latest tech policy developments involving the Federal Communications Commission, Federal Trade Commission, AI regulation, and more.   Guests: - Ari Cohn, FIRE’s lead counsel, tech policy. - Adam Thierer, a resident technology and innovation senior fellow at the R Street Institute   - Jennifer Huddleston, a technology policy senior fellow at the CATO Institute   Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:30 Section 230 06:55 FCC and Section 230 14:32 Brendan Carr and “faith-based programming” 28:24 Media companies’ settlements with the Trump 30:24 Brendan Carr at Semafor event 38:37 FTC and social media companies 48:09 AI regulations 01:03:43 Outro   Read the transcript.   Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email [email protected].   Show notes: “Seeing reports that the FCC plans to take a vague and ineffective step on Section 230 to try to control speech online…” FCC Commissioner Anna M. Gomez via X (2025) “Federal Communications Commission Chair Brendan Carr taking first steps in eroding key legal protection enjoyed by Big Tech” New York Post (2025) Section 230 text “Federal Communications Commission” Brendan Carr via Project 2025 (2022) “Bless Ron Wyden and his steady defense of Section 230. He is absolutely right: 230 is a pro-competition law.” Adam Kovacevich via X (2025) “If Google is looking to block faith-based programming on YouTube, they are doing a really really bad job at it…” Adam Thierer via X (2025) “I have received complaints that Google’s @YouTubeTV is discriminating against faith-based programming…” Brendan Carr via X (2025) “FCC’s Carr defends broadcast probes, slams social media ‘threat’” Semafor (2025) “Petition for rulemaking of the national telecommunications and information administration” National Telecommunications and Information Administration (2020) “FCC Chair Brendan Carr taking first steps in eroding key legal protection enjoyed by Big Tech” New York Post (2025) “Big Tech censorship is not just un-American, it is potentially illegal…” FTC Chair Andrew Ferguson via X (2025) “Federal Trade Commission launches inquiry on tech censorship” FTC (2025) “Moody v. NetChoice” (2024) “The FTC is overstepping its authority — and threatening free speech online” FIRE (2025) “Wave of state-level AI bills raise First Amendment problems” FIRE (2025) “AI regulatory activity is completely out of control in the U.S…” Adam Thierer via X (2025)   “Cyber rights: Defending free speech in the digital age” Mike Godwin (1995) “Greg Lukianoff testimony before the House Judiciary Committee, February 6, 2024” FIRE (2024) “Technologies of Freedom” Ithiel de Sola Pool (1984)

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• Ep. 236: JD Vance, 60 Minutes, the Associated Press, the FCC, and more

  From JD Vance’s free speech critique of Europe to the Trump administration barring the Associated Press from the Oval Office, free speech news is buzzing. General Counsel Ronnie London and Chief Counsel Bob Corn-Revere unpack the latest developments.  Timestamps:  00:00 Intro 01:49 JD Vance’s speech in Europe 13:27 Margaret Brennan’s comment on the Holocaust 15:13 Weimar fallacy 17:36 Trump admin v. Associated Press 21:33 DEI executive order 27:39 Trump’s lawsuits targeting the media 28:54 FIRE defending Iowa pollster Ann Selzer 32:29 Concerns about the FCC under Brendan Carr 44:09 2004 Super Bowl and the FCC 46:25 FCC’s history of using the “Section 230 threat” 49:14 Newsguard and the FCC 54:48 Elon Musk and doxxing 59:44 Foreigners and the First Amendment 01:05:19 Outro Read the transcript here. Enjoy listening to our podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email [email protected]. Show notes: - “Vice President JD Vance delivers remarks at the Munich Security Conference” The White House (2025) - “Utterly bizarre assertion from Margaret Brennan…” Michael Tracey via X (2025) - “Rubio defends Vance's Munich speech as CBS host suggests 'free speech' caused the Holocaust” FOX News (2025) - “Posting hateful speech online could lead to police raiding your home in this European country” 60 Minutes (2025) - “AP reporter and photographer barred from Air Force One over ‘Gulf of Mexico’ terminology dispute” AP News (2025) - “FIRE statement on White House denying AP Oval Office access” FIRE (2025) - “Ending radical and wasteful government DEI programs and preferencing” The White House (2025) - “Meta to pay $25 million to settle 2021 Trump lawsuit” The Wall Street Journal (2025) - “Trump settles suit against Elon Musk’s X over his post-Jan. 6 ban” AP News (2025) - “Questions ABC News should answer following the $16 million Trump settlement” Columbia Journalism Review (2025) - “Trump v. Selzer: Donald Trump sues pollster J. Ann Selzer for ‘consumer fraud’ over Iowa poll” FIRE (2025) - “A plea for institutional modesty” Bob Corn-Revere (2025) - “Telecommunications Act” FCC (1996) - Section 230 (1993) - “CBS News submits records of Kamala Harris' '60 Minutes' spot to FCC amid distortion probe” USA Today (2025) - “Complaints against various television licensees concerning their February 1, 2004 broadcast of the Super Bowl XXXVIII halftime show” FCC (2004) - “Brendan Carr’s letter to Big Tech CEOs” Brendan Carr via the FCC (2024) - “NRA v. Vullo” (2023) - “She should be fired immediately” Elon Musk via X (2025) - “Restoring freedom of speech and ending federal censorship” The White House (2025) - “Protecting the United States from foreign terrorists and other national security and public safety threats” The White House (2025)

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• Ep. 235: Cancel culture, legal education, and the Supreme Court with Ilya Shapiro

  Over the years, elite institutions shifted from fostering open debate to enforcing ideological conformity. But as guest Ilya Shapiro puts it, “the pendulum is swinging back.” He shares his firsthand experience with cancel culture and how the American Bar Association’s policies influence legal education. Shapiro also opines on major free speech cases before the Supreme Court, including the TikTok ownership battle and Texas’ age verification law for adult content. Shapiro is a senior fellow and director of constitutional studies at the Manhattan Institute. He previously (and briefly) served as executive director and senior lecturer at the Georgetown Center for the Constitution and as a vice president at the Cato Institute. His latest book, “Lawless: The Miseducation of America’s Elites,” is out now. Enjoy listening to our podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email [email protected]. Read the transcript. Timestamps:  00:00 Intro 02:58 Shapiro’s Georgetown controversy 15:07 Free speech on campus 26:51 Law schools’ decline 40:47 Legal profession challenges 42:33 The “vibe shift” away from cancel culture 56:02 TikTok and age verification at the Supreme Court 01:03:37 Anti-Semitism on campus 01:09:36 Outro Show notes: - “The illiberal takeover of law schools” City Journal (2022) - “Poll finds sharp partisan divisions on the impact of a Black woman justice.” ABC News (2022) - “Why I quit Georgetown.” Ilya Shapiro, The Wall Street Journal (2022) - “Georgetown’s investigation of a single tweet taking longer than 12 round-trips to the moon.” FIRE (2022) - Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard (2023) - Lamont v. Postmaster General (1965) - TikTok Inc v. Garland (2025) - Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton (2024) - Ginsberg v. New York (1968) - International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) working definition of antisemitism (last updated 2025)

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