RIDEOUT: The Other Side of Hard

Shawn Johnson was the all around world champion at 15 and an Olympic champion at 16. Gold on the balance beam in Beijing and three silvers, a nationwide tour, and a Dancing With the Stars trophy before she finished high school. She did all of it while trying to hide at school that she was a gymnast.
She got there from a gym in West Des Moines where her coach, Liang Chow, took the team to Dairy Queen after practice and had one rule, no skiing. Her parents picked him because it saved gas money, then vetted him for being a good human rather than a good coach. When the national team doctor was Larry Nassar, Chow never let her be treated without him in the room. She calls herself one of the lucky ones.
Then everything changed. On her 18th birthday she broke Chow’s one rule, tore her knee apart on the last run of the day at Beaver Creek, skied down the mountain and carried the Olympic torch in Vancouver before she saw a doctor. She came back for 2012 and the obsession that made her a champion had nowhere to go. Eating disorders. A doctor who prescribed Adderall to curb her appetite, which turned into almost every day for five years. Three full knee reconstructions. She retired weeks before the 2012 trials with her heart gone from the sport.
This week I sat down with Shawn, a dear friend, to talk about going numb at the Olympics at 16, the five weeks she did not see her parents in Beijing, the armed guard outside her hotel room in Rio, why the US is built for beam and floor and not bars, the blind date with Andrew East that got her to Nashville, and the day she stood in an airport and decided she was done with Adderall for good.
Three kids, a podcast with Andrew, a New York Times bestseller they wrote together, and she still flips around with the kids. Hope you guys enjoy this one.
Follow Shawn: @shawnjohnson
Her book with Andrew: The Courage to Commit
Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com.
Thank you to our sponsors
OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT”
Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/
Chapters
(00:00) Meet Shawn Johnson
(00:26) Three Kids and Coming Out of the Clouds
(01:42) Growing Up in West Des Moines
(01:58) A Coach From China
(02:57) The Team Doctor
(04:00) Never Without Chow in the Room
(06:08) In the ER Every Two Weeks
(06:41) Her Parents Vetted Chow
(08:11) Kids Sports Are Crazy
(10:46) Like Winning More Than You Dislike Training
(12:07) Sponsor Break OMRE
(14:34) World Champion at 15
(15:34) Hooked on Day One
(16:27) Nationals at Nine
(18:18) Why She Quit
(18:36) Gold on the Beam
(20:49) How a Team Gets Built
(22:41) Bars Think Gumby
(25:22) Numb at the Olympics
(27:20) Five Weeks Without Her Parents
(28:30) An AK 47 Outside Her Door
(28:47) Hiding It at School
(30:46) The Tour and Dancing With the Stars
(31:40) Throwing Up Backstage
(33:18) Second to Melissa Rycroft
(35:01) The One Rule Was No Skiing
(35:14) Her 18th Birthday at Beaver Creek
(36:21) Carrying the Torch on a Torn Knee
(37:51) I Want to Come Back
(39:03) Control
(39:48) Eating Disorders
(40:39) Adderall
(41:34) Obsessiveness Is a Gift
(44:24) Ken on Adderall
(45:07) Prescribed to Curb Her Appetite
(46:50) Standing in an Airport
(47:23) Five Years
(48:20) Her Heart Was Gone
(49:56) You Will Never Beat the Schedule
(51:03) A Moms Fear of Getting Hurt
(53:14) Mommy Won All the Medals
(55:58) A Blind Date Set Up by His Brother
(57:22) Stanford and Vanderbilt
(58:41) NIL Money
(1:00:16) The Apprentice
(1:01:32) Five Years in the NFL
(1:04:24) Shawn Johnsons Husband
(1:05:09) Andrew the Pilot
(1:07:51) The Podcast
(1:08:52) AG1 and Kat Cole
(1:09:29) Host Outro and Subscribe
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Kat Cole grew up in Jacksonville in a family where the men drank, the money was tight and almost nobody kept a job. When she was nine her mom left her father, worked multiple jobs and fed three girls on a $10 a week food budget for three years. Kat’s answer when her mom said they were leaving: what took you so long.
She was selling jeans in a mall at 15 to help the family, started at Hooters as a hostess in high school, and by 20 the company had moved her into the corporate office to run training and openings around the world. Vice president at 26. At 32 Roark Capital handed her Cinnabon, 400 stores and $300 million in revenue, getting beaten up by the recession. She spent her first 60 days rolling cinnamon rolls, asked every employee the same three questions, launched a smaller roll, put the brand in grocery stores and tripled it to a billion dollars. COO of the parent company at 36, nine presidents and $3 billion in revenue reporting to her. Today she runs AG1.
This week I sat down with Kat to talk about how she leads. The WTF email from a franchisee that cost her millions to make right, the two bosses who called her into an office at 21 and said we are worried about you, the unpopular calls that kept her brands alive through Covid, having her kids at 39 and 41, and the week in March 2020 when her seven month old was on a feeding tube while her franchisees screamed in her AirPods.
We also get into AG1. The founder had no idea she was already a customer, why AG1 was air freighted from New Zealand, the millions in human clinical trials, and what is coming next.
Where she came from is the whole point. Hope you guys enjoy this one.
Follow Kat: @katcoleatl
AG1: @drinkag1
Get my weekly letter, Nowhere to Hide, at thekenrideout.com
Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com.
Chapters
(00:00) Meet Kat Cole
(01:25) Growing Up in Jacksonville
(03:21) Mom Said We Are Leaving
(04:20) What Took You So Long
(05:19) Ten Dollars a Week for Food
(06:15) Admiring the Christmas Lights
(08:01) Working at 15
(08:56) A Second Job in High School
(12:15) We Ran the Place
(14:28) Kens Weekly Letter, Nowhere to Hide
(16:17) In the Corporate Office at 20
(18:28) We Are Worried About You
(21:37) Seeking Control
(23:07) Like a Light Switch
(24:38) The Seed of a Nutrition Obsession
(25:10) Sold to Private Equity
(27:16) The Call About Cinnabon
(28:58) 400 Stores and 300 Million
(29:36) Telling Her Boss She Was Interviewing
(30:32) Wait for Great
(32:16) Inject Belief
(32:44) The Same Three Questions
(35:01) A Smaller Cinnamon Roll
(35:48) A Billion Dollars in Revenue
(36:40) The WTF Email
(37:53) You Are a Liar
(40:19) Killing a Million Dollar Deal
(42:56) COO at 36
(43:28) Undercover Boss
(44:48) Im Here to Learn
(45:34) Single and Running the Company
(46:14) I Knew I Would Be a Mother
(49:43) Meeting the Love of Her Life
(51:10) Engaged in Two Weeks
(51:20) Married to an Ocean Rower
(53:58) Recession to Covid
(55:38) Not a Zero to One Person
(57:23) Covid Wiped Out the Revenue
(57:58) The Unpopular Calls That Saved Them
(1:00:30) Married at Burning Man
(1:01:24) Ocean and Arrow
(1:02:58) Arrow Gets Sick
(1:04:33) Franchisees in Her AirPods
(1:05:38) Im Glad Its Me
(1:07:47) Health Became the North Star
(1:08:57) The Call From the AG1 Founder
(1:09:45) Half Expired Powders in the Pantry
(1:10:28) Bootstrapped to 160 Million
(1:11:04) Air Freighted From New Zealand
(1:13:29) Tim Ferriss and the Imitators
(1:14:51) I Put It in the Book
(1:16:35) Eight Million Lookalikes
(1:17:59) Millions in Human Clinical Trials
(1:19:16) Kens Insurance Policy
(1:19:53) Four Teenagers on AG1
(1:23:05) Longevity Without the Obsession
(1:24:34) AG1 Pro With Creatine
(1:26:52) Consistency Matters
(1:30:00) Habit Snacking
(1:30:46) What Is Coming Next
(1:32:03) AGZ and the Gummies
(1:35:45) Host Outro and Subscribe
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Eddie Gallagher was the number one platoon chief at SEAL Team 7, on his ninth deployment, pushing through the west side of Mosul against ISIS. A year after he got home, NCIS arrested him at a brain treatment clinic, raided his house and pulled his kids into the street at gunpoint. The charge was premeditated murder. The accusers were guys from his own platoon.
He spent eight and a half months locked up before trial, in a brig where the guards were told to make him snap, with plea offers that started at 60 years. His wife Andrea ran the Free Eddie campaign while raising three kids. His brother Sean knocked on doors in DC until two congressmen listened. Then Trump tweeted. Then the prosecution got caught spying on his lawyers. Then a medic from his platoon, testifying with full immunity, said he was the one who killed the ISIS fighter.
This week I sat down with Eddie, a Navy corpsman who became a Marine scout sniper and then a SEAL chief. We get into the 3 a.m. Navy commercial that got a high school burnout off the couch, a sniper school harder than BUD/S, Hell Week on three and a half hours of sleep, hazing in the teams, and the rules that kept SEALs 800 meters behind the fight in Mosul.
We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. The torture room next to where his platoon slept. The 17-year-old ISIS fighter dropped on the hood of a truck. The group photo he calls wrong and says he paid for. The Red Bull, the $15 haircut and the sunglasses his accusers called theft.
He retired as a chief in 2019 with everything he earned, started the Pipe Hitter Foundation with Andrea, and trains cops and civilians in Florida now. Whatever you think you know about this case, hear it from him. Hope you guys enjoy this one.
Follow Eddie: @eddie_gallagher
His book: eddiegallagherbook.com
Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com.
Thank you to our sponsors
OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT”
Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/
Chapters
(00:00) Meet Eddie Gallagher
(02:37) Half the Country Hates You
(04:47) Born in Paterson Raised Everywhere
(07:33) A Rebellious Kid on Drugs
(08:23) A Navy Commercial at 3 AM
(11:35) A Corpsman at Sniper School
(12:06) Sponsor Break OMRE
(15:19) Tougher Than BUDS
(16:51) One MRE for Five Days
(18:41) Stalking Is a Bitch
(21:19) Living on a Ship Sucks
(26:23) Watching SEALs Come Over the Beach
(31:14) Fast Eddie
(34:30) Hell Week on 3.5 Hours of Sleep
(38:14) Ken Quit the Ironman in Hawaii
(42:25) You Aint Shit
(43:15) Reconnecting With Andrea
(44:35) Hazing in the Teams
(47:32) Throw the First Punch
(50:24) A Chair to the Back of the Head
(53:13) The OIC Lost His Legs
(1:00:41) Im Going to Die for Him
(1:05:11) Dropped From Green Team
(1:15:24) Taking Over Alpha Platoon
(1:17:07) Fast and Loose With the Rules
(1:21:45) Mosul
(1:24:03) 800 Meters From the Front
(1:26:33) An Iranian Backed Partner Force
(1:29:01) The Carl Gustav
(1:33:50) 600 Yards From ISIS
(1:36:03) VBIED Palooza
(1:37:53) The Worst of Humanity
(1:41:14) On the Hood Like a Deer
(1:42:31) The Torture Room Next Door
(1:45:59) Bored Team Guys and a Body
(1:46:37) I Paid My Dues for That
(1:51:48) I Got Him With My Knife
(1:53:54) You Called Me a Thief
(1:59:06) Ill Fight Every One of You
(2:01:11) NCIS Is the Biggest Joke on the Planet
(2:02:55) Arrested in the XOs Office
(2:04:55) Your Kids Are Outside in Their Underwear
(2:12:43) Arrested at the Brain Treatment Center
(2:18:50) A Kangaroo Court
(2:21:02) Andrea Takes the Reins
(2:22:26) Brother Sean Bangs on Doors in DC
(2:26:29) Make Him Snap
(2:29:34) God Put You in a Prison Cell
(2:34:05) Prisoner Gallagher Get Up
(2:42:34) Plead and Get 60 Years
(2:42:50) Caught Spying
(2:46:17) Bernie Kerik and Tim Parlatore
(2:48:39) Home to Florida
(2:54:12) Lets Get Our Story Straight
(2:55:47) A SEAL Planted on the Jury
(3:01:31) Trump Offered a Pardon
(3:03:23) Full Immunity
(3:06:10) I Forgive You
(3:09:18) I Killed Him
(3:12:16) The Old Man and the Little Girl
(3:15:33) Eight Miles in a Weight Vest at 4 AM
(3:16:55) Not Guilty
(3:20:02) A Call From Trump
(3:22:51) The President of the United States
(3:25:27) Retired as a Chief
(3:28:02) A Dividing Line in the Community
(3:30:53) QR Codes to the Evidence
(3:34:11) The Pipe Hitter Foundation
(3:34:35) Training Cops and Civilians
(3:37:42) Shoot Me Straight
(3:40:52) A Quad Ripped Off the Knee
(3:43:13) Choose Your Discomfort
(3:43:32) Host Outro and Subscribe
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Cesalina Gracie had never climbed a mountain. She gave herself six and a half weeks to train, flew to Kathmandu and summited Everest on her first attempt, in the deadliest season in the mountain’s history. Three Sherpas were killed in the Khumbu Icefall while the route was still being set up.
But the climb wasn’t the hardest part. Waiting at base camp for the summit window, the man running her expedition sat down next to her in her tent, put his hand on her thigh and whispered something she still refuses to repeat. She pushed his hand off and told him never to talk to her like that again. When the window opened he took the other groups up the mountain and left her at base camp. Then he canceled her Sherpa, ordered her down by radio from a hotel in Kathmandu, and assigned her a 20-year-old who had never climbed Everest. She prayed in her tent for a sign. A Sherpa with a speed record on the mountain walked in, heard her out and said, I’ll go with you. They were told not to call for rescue. They summited anyway.
This week I sat down with Cesalina, a black belt from the family that created Brazilian jiu-jitsu and my daughter’s first coach. We get into a grandfather with 21 children, the Gracie Diet, a family where school is optional, moving to London alone at 17 with 1,000 pounds, four years off the mats and starting over at white belt, and why she built a jiu-jitsu program for women only.
We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. Her first TV hosting job was the Rio Olympics, live in front of 70,000 people. Ten-hour training days in an altitude chamber, building Legos with frozen hands. The $250,000 VIP tents at base camp. The climber who turned around two hours from the summit and told her it wasn’t worth it.
Her message to every girl and woman is simple. Never sacrifice your integrity to achieve your dreams. Hope you guys enjoy this one.
Follow Cesalina: @cesagracie
Her courses: cesalina.com
Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com.
Thank you to our sponsors
OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT”
Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/
Chapters
(00:00) Meet Cesalina Gracie
(00:56) Speak Up the Moment It Feels Off
(06:13) Ken's Daughter's First Coach
(07:01) The Posture of a Champion
(09:07) Alone in London at 17
(10:34) Confidence Comes From Within
(12:17) Sponsor Break OMRE
(14:46) 21 Children and the Gracie Diet
(16:27) An Italian Dad With Four Degrees
(18:44) A Black Belt Is a Degree
(19:37) First Time on an Airplane
(20:15) A Red Belt Dad and a Ballerina Mom
(21:17) Women Stopped at Blue Belt
(21:37) Kyra Gracie Fought to Fight
(24:18) Why the Little Girls Are Dangerous
(26:16) A Movement for Women Not Against Men
(28:30) Job Interview on Monday
(29:05) Waitress at the First Hard Rock Cafe
(31:26) The Queen of Firsts
(33:47) Four Years Off the Mats
(34:52) A Broken Tailbone at a Tournament
(36:45) Hiding the Gracie Name in London
(38:45) Dads Screaming in the Stands
(43:08) Watching Your Kid Lose
(47:12) Don't Let Them Quit
(48:31) The Science of Self-Sabotage
(52:29) Two Brothers and a Rapper Sister
(53:03) Twelve Schools With Her Brother
(54:18) Tolerated Not Celebrated
(55:27) Translating Kill the Lion
(56:11) You Belong in Front of the Camera
(56:53) Booking the Rio Olympics
(1:00:27) Why Not You
(1:01:47) Skydiving With the Expedition Leader
(1:05:25) Scared of Heights
(1:07:10) Six and a Half Weeks to Prepare
(1:09:34) The Invisible Contract
(1:10:28) The Deadliest Season in Everest History
(1:12:09) What Everest Costs
(1:13:41) Training for Everest Since Day One
(1:14:16) Ten Hours in the Altitude Chamber
(1:15:55) Legos With Frozen Hands
(1:20:47) The Descent Is What Kills
(1:24:00) The $250,000 VIP Tent
(1:26:37) Fifty Days Without a Heater
(1:31:29) Not Married No Kids Now or Never
(1:35:06) Ladders in the Khumbu Icefall
(1:37:47) Turned Around 300 Meters From the Top
(1:40:59) A Two and a Half Hour Head Start
(1:41:26) A 70 Mile an Hour Windstorm
(1:43:05) Too Cold Too Dangerous Not Worth It
(1:45:15) Her Sherpa Gets Canceled
(1:48:47) Two Bodyguards at Base Camp
(1:49:43) The Boundary That Started a War
(1:51:20) A Hand on Her Thigh
(1:53:08) Don't Ever Talk to Me Like This
(1:54:05) Ordered Down From the Marriott
(1:55:11) A 20 Year Old Who Never Climbed Everest
(1:56:02) A Prayer and a Sign
(1:58:03) I'll Go With You
(1:59:48) Don't Call Us for Rescue
(2:00:54) 23 Hours of Climbing
(2:03:53) The Sherpa Who Saved Her Life
(2:06:34) Fifty Days Without a Shower
(2:08:22) Ken Left Ironman in an Ambulance
(2:11:04) The Sting of Quitting
(2:12:04) It's a Decision
(2:17:11) Never Sacrifice Your Integrity
(2:18:56) Host Outro and Subscribe
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Lyle Phillips was shooting heroin in one arm and meth in the other at 18. He sold cocaine in his Kentucky high school, slept in a dog room at a crack house and lived in the backseat of a 1987 Caprice. He got shot at and he shot back. He ran himself off the road at 65 miles an hour and walked out of the wreck holding a bottle of Tanqueray.
At 19 his best friend was shot dead in the street over a crack deal. At 21 his childhood friend got arrested on the way back to Lyle’s apartment with two kilos of cocaine and 250 pounds of weed, right after they counted $125,000 in cash on the kitchen table.
That night, alone and not even high, Lyle watched someone walk past his second-floor window. He thought it was the SWAT team. Nobody was there. He says Jesus stepped into that room and told him he had six months before he was dead or in prison. The next day he called the parents he hadn’t spoken to in four years and moved home.
This week I sat down with Pastor Lyle Phillips of Legacy Church in Nashville. Nick Bare connected us when I told him I was starting to explore faith, and Lyle showed up at my house with books and no sales pitch. We get into the Holiness Pentecostal church he grew up in, 17 days of withdrawal in solitary, rehab inside a mental hospital, and the counselor who told him to go meet his 11-year-old self.
We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. Plagiarizing his first sermons at his dad’s church. Washing a pastor’s car for $100 a week in Texas. A year and a half in Mozambique. Five years in India, where his team paid off family debts to free more than 400 kids from slavery, and where he lost some of them anyway.
He started Legacy Church in September 2016 with a free building and 12 people. Now about 1,200 show up every Sunday. We talk about what a church actually costs to run, who can fire a pastor, Joel Osteen and the prosperity gospel, and why I keep showing up to church feeling like a fraud.
His message to me was simple. You don’t have to white-knuckle it. Just keep coming back. Hope you guys enjoy this one.
Follow Lyle: @lylebphillips
Legacy Church: legacynashville.org
Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com.
Thank you to our sponsors
OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT”
Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/
Chapters
(00:00) Meet Pastor Lyle Phillips
(01:29) Population 400 in West Kentucky
(03:59) Forced to Church Every Sunday
(04:54) Holiness Pentecostal Standards
(07:42) Altar Calls and Fake Tears
(09:01) Abuse Inside the Church
(12:45) Sponsor Break OMRE
(15:15) A Prophet Walks the Aisles
(17:07) Seeing Demons as a Child
(18:19) Ken’s Ibogaine Trip in Mexico
(23:03) First DUI at 16
(24:04) His Dad and Three Yardsticks
(24:57) Bee Fights for Entertainment
(27:15) Arrested for Attempted Murder
(28:10) A Desert Eagle and a Crack House
(29:18) Selling Cocaine in High School
(30:28) EYBL Ball With Rajon Rondo
(32:33) Carpet Fibers and Speedballs
(33:25) A 70-Year-Old Shows Him the Needle
(34:54) Running From the Cops on Ten Valiums
(35:55) Jail or Rehab
(37:20) 17 Days in Solitary
(38:27) Rehab in a Mental Hospital
(40:11) Meet the 11-Year-Old You
(41:20) Only an Addict Gets This
(44:02) Two Weeks of Pre-Med
(46:51) Waiter Selling Coke to His Tables
(48:24) Drive-Bys and Hot Buckshot
(49:04) Best Friend Killed in the Street
(50:19) Running Himself Off the Road
(54:18) $125,000 on the Kitchen Table
(57:45) Somebody Walked Past the Window
(59:13) Six Months Until Dead or Prison
(1:00:33) Calling Home After Four Years
(1:02:26) Nine Months of Sermons With Dad
(1:05:05) I’m Supposed to Preach
(1:07:38) Plagiarizing His First Sermons
(1:09:31) Preaching Where He Sold Crack
(1:10:13) Ken Feels Like a Fraud at Church
(1:13:36) $100 Every Friday in Texas
(1:16:28) Moving to Mozambique
(1:19:29) A Nonprofit for 13 Kids
(1:21:30) Rescuing Kids in India
(1:23:17) They Said They’d Have Him Killed
(1:25:16) Buying a Child’s Freedom
(1:27:30) The Kids He Lost
(1:31:06) Nashville Because of the Airport
(1:34:12) Meeting Allyson on Skype
(1:36:24) Twelve People and a Free Building
(1:38:34) What Launch Sunday Costs
(1:41:08) Private Jets and Cults
(1:43:59) Five Services Every Sunday
(1:48:49) Joel Osteen and the Prosperity Gospel
(1:51:03) Who Can Fire a Pastor
(1:56:09) Nick Bare and Dr. Josh Axe
(1:58:09) The Missing Spiritual Part
(1:59:30) Better Than Any High
(2:00:30) How to Become a Christian
(2:02:08) Lukewarm and Jealous
(2:03:50) Not Saved by Good Works
(2:04:35) Follow Me and I Will Make You
(2:07:40) The Gospel of John on His Nightstand
(2:11:37) Wes Huff and the Prophecies
(2:16:03) 1,200 People Every Sunday
(2:19:43) What a Pastor Does All Week
(2:21:53) To the Haters
(2:23:38) Host Outro and Subscribe
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