Gerrymandering—the manipulation of voting maps for partisan gain—has been part of American politics since its founding, but today, the problem is reaching a breaking point.
In this episode, host Simone Leeper shares the story of Vicki and Malcolm Reed, a Utah couple who Campaign Legal Center are representing in a landmark lawsuit defending voters’ rights, alongside Mark Gaber, CLC’s Senior Director of Redistricting. Together, they trace how Utahns fought back after lawmakers attempted to overturn a voter-approved ballot measure that created a citizen-led independent redistricting commission—and how the Utah Supreme Court ultimately sided with voters.
As Malcolm and Vicki’s story unfolds, we also highlight how the current wave of mid-decade redistricting arms race that started in Texas and is now spilling into other states threatens to weaken voters’ voices nationwide. We explore how voters, courts and Congress can act to restore fairness to America’s elections and ensure that voters — not politicians — decide the outcome.
Timestamps:
(00:01) — Who are Vicki and Malcolm Reed, and why did they take on Utah’s legislature?
(02:10) — What is gerrymandering, and how does it work?
(05:11) — How did the framers envision fair representation?
(10:10) — What is redistricting, and why does it matter for voters?
(11:25) — What was Utah’s Proposition 4, and how did it aim to end gerrymandering?
(14:42) — What’s the difference between racial and partisan gerrymandering?
(15:12) — How do “packing” and “cracking” weaken voters’ power?
(16:02) — How has technology supercharged modern gerrymandering?
(17:12) — How did Utah lawmakers gut the independent redistricting commission?
(20:44) — Why did Campaign Legal Center sue the Utah legislature?
(23:22) — What happened when CLC argued the case before the Utah Supreme Court?
(25:15) — What did the unanimous court decision mean for Utah voters?
(28:50) — What is happening right now in Texas and other states across the country?
(32:55) — What federal laws could end gerrymandering nationwide?
(36:13) — Why should the fight for fair maps in Utah give us hope for democracy?
Host and Guests:
Simone Leeper litigates a wide range of redistricting-related cases at Campaign Legal Center, challenging gerrymanders and advocating for election systems that guarantee all voters an equal opportunity to influence our democracy. Prior to arriving at CLC, Simone was a law clerk in the office of Senator Ed Markey and at the Library of Congress, Office of General Counsel. She received her J.D. cum laude from Georgetown University Law Center in 2019 and a bachelor’s degree in political science from Columbia University in 2016.
Malcolm and Vicki Reid have been residents of Salt Lake County, Utah for over seven years. Malcolm is registered as a Democrat and Vicki is registered as a Republican but they both consider themselves moderates.Civic engagement is very important to both Malcolm and Vicki and they participated as plaintiffs in the case LWV Utah and MWEG v. Utah State Legislature advocating for fair maps for Utahns.
Mark Gaber manages Campaign Legal Center’s redistricting litigation and policy program, which seeks to achieve fair maps for racial and language minority groups, and to curb the influence of partisanship in redistricting.
Mark has led CLC’s redistricting program to major successes since the 2020 Census. He argued for petitioners in the Wisconsin Supreme Court in Clarke v. Wisconsin Election Commission, which resulted in the invalidation of Wisconsin’s state legislative maps and the transformation of the state’s legislative maps from being among the most politically skewed to among the most politically fair in the country.
He is lead counsel in League of Women Voters of Utah v. Utah State Legislature, in which CLC has successfully challenged the Utah legislature’s repeal of a voter-adopted initiative reforming the state’s redistricting process and its enactment of an extremely gerrymandered congressional map. In that case, Mark has (to date) argued twice in the Utah Supreme Court, resulting in two unanimous decisions in favor of CLC’s clients.
Mark has also led CLC’s redistricting team to victories enforcing the Voting Rights Act (VRA). These include two cases on behalf of North Dakota’s Native American voters, where he has argued in the Eighth Circuit against a challenge aiming to neutralize the VRA by precluding citizens from filing suit and where CLC’s clients have secured two legislative districts providing Native American voters an equal opportunity to elect their preferred candidates. Mark also led CLC’s successful challenge to Washington’s legislative map, which was found to discriminate against Latino voters in the Yakima region, and CLC’s ongoing challenge to the racially discriminatory Galveston County, Texas, map.
Links:
Cartoon, "The Gerry-Mander", 1813 — Smithsonian
Gerrymandering: The Origin Story — Library of Congress Blogs
LWV Utah and MWEG v. Utah State Legislature — CLC
Voting Rights Groups Sue To Ensure All Utah Voters Have a Voice — CLC
Opinion: Why we sued Utah lawmakers for alleged gerrymandering — Desert News
CLC, Utahns Score Huge Victory in the Fight for Fair Maps — CLC
Utahns Score Huge Victory Voiding Amendment D — CLC
What Is Gerrymandering? — CLC
How Can We Combat Gerrymandering? — CLC
Do Independent Redistricting Commissions Really Prevent Gerrymandering? Yes, They Do — CLC
New Report Outlines How to Make a Redistricting Commission Effective — CLC
Independent Redistricting Commissions: Primer and Best Practices — CLC
Redistricting Commissions in the 2021 Redistricting Cycle — CLC
League of Women Voters on the Utah win — LWV
Understanding the Current High Stakes Redistricting Fight – Trevor Potter’s Newsletter
Inside the Trump Administration’s Efforts to Discriminate Against Texas’ Black and Latino Voters — CLC
About CLC:
Democracy Decoded is a production of Campaign Legal Center, a nonpartisan nonprofit organization dedicated to solving the wide range of challenges facing American democracy. Campaign Legal Center fights for every American’s freedom to vote and participate meaningfully in the democratic process. Learn more about us.
Democracy Decoded is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.
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