Why Should I Trust You?

• On Measles: Vaccines vs Vitamin A. Plus, What Marion Nestle Says Public Health Is Getting Wrong

  Amid a deadly measles outbreak, a fresh battle has erupted, pitting mainstream public health against MAHA, infectious disease against chronic disease, and Vitamin A against vaccination. It's a fight that hinges on a fundamental question: Is your illness driven more by infectious disease or underlying chronic conditions? One side argues that vaccination is the only way to prevent measles. At the same time, the other emphasizes diet, nutrition, and Vitamin A, even bringing up cod liver oil as part of the discussion. Then there's MAHA's passion to address America’s unhealthy diet. Should critics of MAHA separate what they agree with from what they don't? In this episode, we unpack the fight amid an outbreak and hear from Marion Nestle, one of America’s leading nutritionists and public health experts. Sources:Vitamin A and Measleshttps://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7076287/Vitamin A deficiencyhttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022316622012238?via%3DihubRFK Jr on Foxnews: https://www.foxnews.com/video/6369595673112RFK Jr with Sean Hannityhttps://www.foxnews.com/video/6369888081112Interview of parents of child in TX measles outbreak deathhttps://live.childrenshealthdefense.org/chd-tv/shows/good-morning-chd/breaking-news-parents-of-child-in-texas-measles-outbreak-death/Thanks for listening! If you like us, please leave a review, rate us, and please subscribe! Got questions? Comments? We'd love to hear from you! Email us at [email protected]

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• How Do You Solve a Problem Like Big Pharma? We Ask a Bioethicist

  "Big Pharma" — two words that Americans love to hate. When asked about the pharmaceutical industry, most of the country responds with a mix of anger and suspicion, using terms like "corporate capture," "revolving door," and "profits over people" to describe its influence, a sentiment felt even stronger after the pandemic. And yet, we are a nation that depends on their life-saving, life-improving products. Americans demand innovation from Big Pharma, but are simultaneously frustrated and mistrustful of their motives and influence. Today, we delve into our complex relationship with the pharmaceutical industry. What fuels this mistrust? Is there a better system? Joining us is bioethicist, author, and TED Talk star hailing from Penn State University Jonathan Marks, who believes it doesn’t have to be this way.Hosts:Brinda AdhikariTom JohnsonMaggie BartlettDr. Mark AbdelmalekGuest:Jonathan Marks, Director of Bioethics Program at Penn State University, lawyer, author The Perils of Partnership: Industry Influence, Institutional Integrity, and Public HealthSources:2019 pharma ranked least well regarded industryhttps://news.gallup.com/poll/266060/big-pharma-sinks-bottom-industry-rankings.aspx2023 Gallup on pharma  https://news.gallup.com/poll/510641/retail-pharmaceutical-industries-slip-public-esteem.aspxLessons from Corporate Influence in the Opioid Epidemic https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32661741/STAT on financial donations to Congresshttps://www.statnews.com/feature/prescription-politics/federal-full-data-set/NIH funds drug research https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5878010/TED TALK: Jonathan Marks: In Praise of Conflicthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf8j5LFv3nIThanks for listening! If you like us, please leave a review, rate us, and please subscribe! Got questions? Comments? We'd love to hear from you! Email us at [email protected]

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  1:11:19
• Censorship vs. Science: The Fight Over Free Speech That Is Tearing Us Apart

  During incoming NIH secretary Dr. Jay Bhattacharya's confirmation hearing this week, he vowed to "establish a culture of respect for free speech in science & scientific dissent at the NIH"; he went on to call dissent "the very essence of science". Dr. Bhattacharya has been one of the most outspoken critics of what he perceives to be censorship and the deliberate muzzling of scientists during Covid. Today, we dive into the complex and contentious issue of censorship—one of the biggest drivers of mistrust in public health. Was it justified for the government to pressure social media companies to remove posts about COVID-19 and vaccines that they deemed dangerous misinformation? Or did that cross a line into stifling free speech? today, with the Trump administration now overseeing public health, issuing new executive orders aimed at limiting DEI programs, language and studies throughout the federal government. Do these actions cross the line into censoring science? Why are we caught in a battle between science and free speech, and how did we get here? And how do we move forward?To help explore these questions, we’re joined by two individuals from very different backgrounds who emerged as important voices during the pandemic: Wilk Wilkinson, a trucking company manager in Central Minnesota and host of the Derate The Hate podcast who has joined forces with scientists such as Dr Francis Collins and Dr Jay Bhattacharya on various topics; and Dr. Maciej Boni, a biology professor at Temple University and infectious disease epidemiologist who worked on the front lines of various outbreaks, from swine flu, bird flu to Covid-19.Hosts:Brinda AdhikariTom JohnsonMaggie BartlettDr. Mark AbdelmalekGuests:Wilk Wilkinson, Braver Angels leader; Host of Derate the Hate podcast; manager of trucking operations Dr. Maciej Boni, professor of biology at Temple University; infectious disease epidemiologistSources:Mark Zuckerberg’s letter to Rep. Jim Jordanhttps://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/PDFFiles/Mark-Zuckerberg-Letter-on-Govt-Censorship.pdfRep. Jim Jordan’s investigation into Biden’s “Censorship Scheme”https://judiciary.house.gov/media/in-the-news/jim-jordan-launches-misinformation-investigation-uncover-biden-censorship-schemeFree speech and content moderationhttps://www.newsweek.com/covid-censorship-facebook-stretched-first-amendment-free-speech-lawyers-1945595Supreme Court: Murthy v. Missouri https://hms.harvard.edu/news/whats-stake-us-supreme-court-case-misinformationSupreme Court: Missouri v. Biden https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-censorship-proved-to-be-deadly-social-media-government-pandemic-health-697c32c4Biden & Social Media https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/16/us/politics/biden-facebook-social-media-covid.htmlThanks for listening! If you like us, please leave a review, rate us, and please subscribe! Got questions? Comments? We'd love to hear from you! Email us at [email protected]

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  1:23:21
• MAGA + MAHA: How Will This Work Exactly? We Speak With Journalist Batya Ungar-Sargon

  With measles cases spreading and reports of the first measles death in 10 years, all eyes are on the new health secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr, in what is his first real public health test. He said the measles outbreaks were not unusual. According to the CDC and Your Local Epidemiologist newsletter, 2025 has already passed 8 out of the last 15 years in annual counts of measles. On today's episode: In 2024, after Kennedy rose to join Donald Trump, what we got was a powerful union, between MAGA and MAHA. When Kennedy dropped his independent bid for the White House and endorsed Donald J. Trump, his MAHA supporters rallied behind the Republican candidate. This merger unites two groups that, at first glance, seem to have little in common. One is a populist movement, championing the working American who feels overlooked and dismissed by the elites. The other is a coalition of wellness enthusiasts and vaccine skeptics, critics of big business, and those wary of pharma’s influence over health policy and advocates of health freedom, coming together in common cause.But what happens when the realpolitik of governing kicks in, with its focus on priorities, compromises, and funding? Will MAGA rally behind MAHA’s causes, especially if they call for more business regulations, farming restrictions, and higher health standards? Is MAHA wise to trust MAGA? Journalist Batya Ungar-Sargon, author, journalist, and vocal Trump supporter, joins the discussion, with a take on all of this that you won't want to miss. Hosts:Brinda AdhikariTom JohnsonMaggie BartlettDr. Mark AbdelmalekGuest:Batya Ungar-Sargon, columnist The Free Press, author Second Class: How the Elites Betrayed America's Working Men and WomenSources:RFK and Donald Trump’s alliance https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/09/rfk-trump-health-maga/680011/The anti-vaccine movement https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9981160/MAHA’s agendahttps://thehill.com/newsletters/health-care/5144511-rfk-kennedy-maha-era-begins/What is MAHA?https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/what-is-maha-health-wellness-movement-rfk-jr-policies.htmlMAHA’s legislative goals https://www.axios.com/2024/11/14/maha-movement-federal-health-agenciesRecent history of the vaccine skeptical movement  https://www.thenation.com/article/society/the-anti-vax-movement-hustl/The MAHA Commission https://www.axios.com/2025/02/13/trump-maha-commission-rfk-chronic-illnessRepublicans and Democrats Views on Vaccineshttps://news.gallup.com/poll/648308/far-fewer-regard-childhood-vaccinations-important.aspxThanks for listening! If you like us, please leave a review, rate us, and please subscribe! Got questions? Comments? We'd love to hear from you! Email us at [email protected]

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  1:12:54
• Measles, Pharma and Mistrust: A Conversation with MAHA Moms and Dr. Paul Offit

  This week, in his first speech addressing the Department of Health and Human Services as its new chief, RFK Jr.  said the path to the country earning back trust was through transparency. As Kennedy was saying these words to a packed audience,  Texas was clocking in more measles cases, in what is turning out to be its worst measles outbreak in 30 years. With rising mistrust in public health and declining vaccination rates, measles - a disease we eradicated over 20 years ago is making a comeback, worrying many in public health. But two MAHA moms in their fifties we heard from on today's episode ask a question we are increasingly hearing more often these days: what's the big deal about measles?  Both these moms got it as children and recovered, missed a few days of school and then had lifelong immunity. Is public health over reacting? They point to a classic Brady Bunch episode where the kids all catch measles, reflecting how the virus was once considered a rite of passage, a harmless childhood illness. If anything, doesn't getting a disease strengthen the immune system?Before the vaccine, measles claimed the lives of 500 children every year and hospitalized tens of thousands more, and sometimes led to severe complications in kids many years after they got sick. But now that we have a vaccine, what’s the real risk of measles today? And why is the measles vaccine -- while still popular among the vast majority of this country -- losing the trust of a small but growing group of Americans? In this episode, we welcome back Dr. Paul Offit, a leading expert on childhood vaccines, to explore the questions surrounding measles and dig into the facts about pharmaceutical funding while aiming to model a more constructive conversation.Hosts:Brinda AdhikariTom JohnsonMaggie BartlettDr. Mark AbdelmalekGuests:Yesenia Muhammad, Atlanta, MAHA MomMelinda Hicks, Atlanta, MAHA MomDr. Paul Offit, pediatrician, infectious disease and vaccine specialistSources:States looking to create exemptions for public school vaccine mandates:https://apnews.com/article/vaccines-whooping-cough-rfk-measles-exemptions-covid-27dae6f61505ef1953ca869a78c71942Public Attitudes on the MMR vaccine:https://www.kff.org/health-information-and-trust/press-release/poll-trust-in-public-health-agencies-and-vaccines-falls-amid-republican-skepticism/#:~:text=Among%20parents%2C%20about%20seven%20in,the%20benefits%20CDC numbers on risk from Measleshttps://www.cdc.gov/measles/signs-symptoms/?CDC_AAref_Val=https://www.cdc.gov/measles/symptoms/complications.html#Measles compromises immune memoryMeasles virus infection diminishes preexisting antibodies that offer protection from other pathogensClinical Trial data on MMR:[Simultaneous administration at different dosages of attenuated live virus vaccines against measles, mumps and rubella]. Clinical evaluation of a new measles-mumps-rubella trivalent vacThanks for listening! If you like us, please leave a review, rate us, and please subscribe! Got questions? Comments? We'd love to hear from you! Email us at [email protected]

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