CONFLICTED

Where did the nation-state come from—and what happens if the conditions that made it powerful are now disappearing?

Thomas discusses these questions and much more in this wide-ranging Conflicted Conversation with award-winning novelist and essayist Rana Dasgupta, whose new book After Nations: The Making and Unmaking of a World Order sets out to explain where our world order came from and where it could be going.

Rana explains:

The origins of the modern nation-state and the decline of universal sacred empires

Louis IX, the Crown of Thorns and the sacralisation of the French state

How Enlightenment political theology transformed God, sovereignty and individual rights

Industrialisation, mass democracy, welfare states and the political power of workers

Liberalism, populism and the changing relationship between elites and mass democracy

The origins of international law in empire, property rights and global capitalism

Why the postwar rules-based international order is now weakening

The East India Company, Silicon Valley and the rise of quasi-sovereign corporate power

China as an alternative model of state power and control over private capital

Climate change, mass migration and whether the nation-state can survive a new ‘nomad century’

Find Rana on X: x.com/byranadasgupta

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Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

Produced and edited by Thomas Small .
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In this Conflicted Conversation, journalist Chris Horton talks about his new book Ghost Nation: The Story of Taiwan and Its Struggle for Survival.

Chris explains:

Why China wants Taiwan and why the island is vital to control of the western Pacific.

Taiwan’s strategic position in the First Island Chain between China, Japan and the Philippines.

How a Chinese invasion, blockade or maritime quarantine of Taiwan could unfold.

Why a war over Taiwan could devastate global trade and the world economy.

What Taiwan’s fall would mean for US power, Japan and the Philippines.

Why Taiwan is an independent democracy but still officially called the Republic of China.

Who the Taiwanese are: Indigenous peoples, Hoklo, Hakka and post-1949 mainlanders.

How martial law, dictatorship and democratisation created modern Taiwanese identity.

Why the Kuomintang, once Communist China’s enemy, is now Taiwan’s most Beijing-friendly major party.

Whether Taiwan could eventually choose closer integration with China through democracy rather than war.

Find Chris on X: www.x.com/heguisen

Visit Chris’s website: www.chrishortonwriter.com

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Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

Produced and edited by Thomas Small .
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Aimen's prediction on 4 August came true, and in the intervening weeks the United States have ramped up the economic pressure on the Iranian regime. The question is: how with the IRGC react? The war re-escalated over the weekend, and as the Iranian people began to make their feelings felt, all indications are that peace is farther away than ever.

Aimen and Thomas discuss:

Operation Economic Outcast: US sanctions and regional trade restrictions tighten Iran’s economic isolation.

Strait of Hormuz: US demining, Gulf oil exports and Iran’s new underwater drone threat reshape the naval war.

Iran’s economic crisis: collapsing rial, inflation, shortages and possible unrest increase pressure on the IRGC.

UAE-Iran trade: Dubai’s historic commercial role shrinks as Gulf states join Washington’s economic campaign.

US strategy in the Gulf: Trump administration cohesion, long-term military deployment and growing concern about China.

Iran escalation risks: attacks on Gulf infrastructure, domestic repression and renewed US-Iran fighting.

Tactical nuclear weapons: Aimen warns the conflict could cross the nuclear threshold if escalation continues.

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Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

Produced and edited by Thomas Small.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this Conflicted Conversation, Simon Sebag Montefiore returns to the show, this time to talk about his new book The Cauldron: The Making of the Modern Middle East.

Simon explains:

How Britain and France tried — and often failed — to shape the post-Ottoman Middle East

Why Sykes–Picot is a misleading shorthand for the region’s modern borders

How Atatürk, Nasser and other Middle Eastern leaders remade the region through their own choices

The violent shift from Ottoman pluralism to nationalist, more homogeneous states

Why Nasser’s charisma produced a powerful Arab myth but a disastrous authoritarian model

Why traditional monarchies in Morocco, Jordan and the Gulf often outlasted revolutionary republics

How America became the Middle East’s dominant anti-imperial imperial power after Europe’s retreat

Why militias, parastates and insurgencies make “total victory” in today’s Middle East so elusive

Find Simon on X: x.com/simonmontefiore

Visit Simon’s website: www.simonsebagmontefiore.com

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Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

Produced and edited by Thomas Small .
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In this Conflicted Conversation, Ian Kumekawa (a fellow of Harvard University and a lecturer at MIT) talks about his book Empty Vessel: The Story of the Global Economy in One Ship.

Ian explains:

The offshore global economy: where loopholes, ships and responsibility slip beyond ordinary jurisdiction

From Little Toot to rusting barges: how industrial capitalism lost its confident postwar world

Sweden’s socialist shipyards, private tax dodges, and the strange birth of the Vessel

Containerisation’s hidden cost: how global trade hollowed out Manhattan’s working waterfront

The Falklands War, Thatcherism, and the private infrastructure behind imperial sovereignty

New York’s floating prison: mass incarceration meets offshore legal ingenuity

Wall Street goes offshore onshore: banks, deregulation and International Banking Facilities

Neoliberalism, legality and injustice: when the modern economy makes the immoral lawful

Visit Ian’s website: www.iankumekawa.com

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Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

Produced by Thomas Small and edited by Lizzy Andrews.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices