The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens

Humans aren't rational. We don't evaluate facts objectively; instead, we interpret them through our biases, experiences, and backgrounds. What's more, we're psychologically motivated to reject or distort information that threatens our identity or worldview – even if it's scientifically valid. Add to that our modern media landscape where everyone has a different source of "truth" for world events, our ability to understand what is actually true is weaker than ever. How, then, can we combat misinformation when simply presenting the facts is no longer enough – and may even backfire?
In this episode, Nate is joined by John Cook, a researcher who has spent nearly two decades studying science communication and the psychology of misinformation. John shares his journey from creating the education website Skeptical Science in 2007 to his shocking discovery that his well-intentioned debunking efforts might have been counterproductive. He also discusses the "FLICC" framework – a set of five techniques (Fake experts, Logical fallacies, Impossible expectations, Cherry picking, and Conspiracy theories) that cut across all forms of misinformation, from the denial of global heating to vaccine hesitancy, and more. Additionally, John's research reveals a counterintuitive truth: our tribal identities matter more than our political beliefs in determining what science we accept – yet our aversion to being tricked is bipartisan. 
When it comes to reaching a shared understanding of the world, why does every conversation matter – regardless of whether it ends in agreement? When attacks on science have shifted from denying findings to attacking solutions and scientists themselves, are we fighting yesterday's battle with outdated communication strategies? And while we can't eliminate motivated reasoning (to which we're all susceptible), how can we work around it by teaching people to recognize how they're being misled, rather than just telling them what to believe?
 
About John Cook:
John Cook is a Senior Research Fellow at the Melbourne Centre for Behaviour Change at the University of Melbourne. He is also affiliated with the Center for Climate Change Communication as adjunct faculty. In 2007, he founded Skeptical Science, a website which won the 2011 Australian Museum Eureka Prize for the Advancement of Climate Change Knowledge and 2016 Friend of the Planet Award from the National Center for Science Education. John also created the game Cranky Uncle, combining critical thinking, cartoons, and gamification to build resilience against misinformation, and has worked with organizations such as Facebook, NASA, and UNICEF to develop evidence-based responses to misinformation.
John co-authored the college textbooks Climate Change: Examining the Facts with Weber State University professor Daniel Bedford. He was also a coauthor of the textbook Climate Change Science: A Modern Synthesis and the book Climate Change Denial: Heads in the Sand. Additionally, in 2013, he published a paper analyzing the scientific consensus on climate change that has been highlighted by President Obama and UK Prime Minister David Cameron. He also developed a Massive Open Online Course in 2015 at the University of Queensland on climate science denial, that has received over 40,000 enrollments.
 
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This week's Frankly is another edition of Nate's Wide Boundary News series, where he invites listeners to view the constant churn of headlines through a wider-boundary lens. Today's edition features reflections on renewable energy and CO2 emission trends, updates on species adaptability, and a discussion about nuclear treaties and Iran. Nate ties each topic to the larger story of the Great Simplification, updating listeners on what pathways might be available to pursue the long-term stability of humanity in the biosphere. 
What does ecological simplification teach us about resilience in human systems? When we celebrate "progress" in the form of rising renewable energy or flattening emissions, where might we be ignoring hidden system-level costs? And how has repeated exposure to "contained" geopolitical conflict changed our collective perception of risk, particularly in the West?
(Recorded February 22nd, 2026)
 
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In this week's Frankly, Nate looks at how aggregate human behavior changes as groups scale from small tribes to large and complex societies. He uses the framing of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde throughout the episode to illustrate how traits that once helped small groups survive can serve to destabilize complex societies when expanded globally. Rather than a moral failing of the human species, he frames the more-than-human predicament as a predictable outcome that emerges when human instincts operate at large scales.
Nate also walks through the layers that make up the reality we experience. He starts with the major symptoms that increasingly draw our attention today like global heating, biodiversity loss, and geopolitical tensions. He then emphasizes that these surface problems are driven by recurring systemic patterns, which are kept in place by society-scale driving forces. The episode closes by asking the audience to reflect on what responsibility and agency look like in a world where powerful incentives shape collective outcomes.
Where do we see societal thresholds when scale removes the natural limits that once kept us in balance? How can we be aware of reinforcing deeper societal forces while trying to solve for symptoms? And if our instincts helped us survive in the past, what might a system that works to balance human nature and biophysical reality look like?
(Recorded February 11th, 2026)
 
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With grocery prices skyrocketing and supply chain disruptions becoming more frequent, the average person has more and more incentive to get involved in growing their own food – but how does one even get started? For most people, the time, money, knowledge, and land remain out of reach in order to learn even the basics of agriculture. What kind of options are available for individuals who want to reclaim their food sovereignty – and subsequently become more connected with the Earth and like-minded people? 
In this episode, Nate is joined by biologist and farmer Jason Bradford, to discuss his 'Farming Club,' which offers hands-on learning for ecologically based agriculture, where members also get to take home food and build a relationship with the land. Jason explains why industrial agriculture, optimized for financial returns and machine efficiency while ignoring ecological costs, makes it almost impossible to become a successful small-scale farmer in today's economy. The Farming Club's model provides a way for people to maintain their jobs while building the knowledge, skills, and community connections needed for a lower-throughput future. 
How could reinvigorating farming culture provide an avenue to real skills and purpose to the next generation, especially for young men? How could the farming club model be replicated across the country, sparking small rural movements everywhere? And how could thousands of ideas and initiatives like these act as safety nets for individuals and communities as we transition to a more simplified society?
(Conversation recorded on December 4th, 2025)  
 
About Jason Bradford:
Jason co-manages a Community Supported Agriculture program with the Organic Growers Club at Oregon State University, where he practices land stewardship methods and cultivates community rooted in ecologically-based agricultural practices. Prior to his switch to agriculture, he was a research biologist studying evolution, ecology, and global change.
Additionally, Jason has been affiliated with the Post Carbon Institute since 2004, first as a Fellow and then as Board President. He is currently a co-host of the Crazy Town podcast, as well as a writer for Resilience.org. Additionally, in 2019, he authored The Future is Rural: Food System Adaptations to the Great Simplification.
 
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This week's Frankly marks a new recurring segment on this platform where Nate poses questions about our shared future: Uncomfortable Questions in Unstable Times. In this edition, he explores what would change if societies shifted their primary goal from growth to stability. Nate also unpacks how a lack of purpose in modern life might shape politics, culture, and personal choices.
He then scales up to look at power and behavior through a wider lens, examining how incentives in systems can shape the behavior of a nation. Nate cites the example of Artificial Intelligence to demonstrate how the large-scale introduction of tools can alter how we experience reality, morality, and physical bottlenecks. Overall, this series is based on the premise that better questions may matter more than discrete answers as we move toward a more uncertain future.
What would change in your life if the country you reside in chose stability over growth? How do notions of "fairness" shift in a world where some people are closer to the "brink" than others? Finally, where is the line between staying true to your values and giving up power in a society built around growth and accumulation?
(Recorded February 10th, 2026)
 
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