No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp

Anxiety is contagious, and most of us catch it without noticing: from a tense meeting, a hard conversation, a parent, a group chat. After an emergency, an ER doctor pulled a young hospital chaplain aside and gave him some life-changing advice: anytime somebody's heart stops, first take your own pulse. He learned that, in order to help, he needs to first notice what’s going on inside of him.

Steve Cuss is a pastor, leadership coach, and author of⁠ Managing Leadership Anxiety⁠ and⁠ The Expectation Gap⁠. He spent a crucible year as a chaplain in a level one trauma center, attending more than 250 deaths, and has spent the decades since teaching leaders and families how anxiety is contagious and can be passed between people. In this conversation, rooted in systems theory, he gives you the practical version: how to tell when reactivity has hold of you, the five false needs that drive all humans, how to see anxiety in a room instead of catching it, and how to sort what is actually yours to carry from what is not. If you want to be the steady person for the people you love without going numb or over-functioning, this is the toolkit.

KEY IDEAS

Anxiety Is Contagious, and You Can See It Instead of Catching It Reactivity moves between people through proximity and repetition, and simply walking into the room intending to notice the pattern is often enough to keep you from picking it up.

The Urge to Comfort Is Usually About Your Own Discomfort When someone says the foolish thing to a grieving friend, it is rarely callousness. It is a caregiver trying to make their own anxiety stop.

The Five False Needs of Every Human Control, perfection, knowing the answer, being their for others when they’re hurting, approval

Calm Is Not the Goal, and Sometimes It Is an Insult When the harm is systemic, outrage is the accurate response, and serenity in front of it signals that you have not understood what is happening.

The Most Anxious Person in the Room Sets the Terms Whether they dominate the conversation or go silent, their reactivity quietly decides what everyone else is willing to say.

Most of What Exhausts You Was Never Yours to Carry Sorting what is mine, what is theirs, and what belongs to God is less about detachment than about being free to love someone without needing to fix them.

Self-Care Is a Means, Not an End Rest, retreat, and therapy exist to send you back into difficult work better able to do it, not to insulate you from it.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Steve Cuss⁠

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SEEDS: Download the free SEEDS app and take one small step today: plant your first seed and see what God can grow.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.

No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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This is our unabridged interview with Michele Norris.

As we practice the good life with a bit of rest, we asked four of our team members to choose one of their favorite episodes and explain why. Cariad’s summer staff pick — Michele Norris: Race, Your Story, 6 Words, Please Send

“I wanted to create a vehicle that allowed people to talk about this allegedly toxic topic on their own terms.” - Michele Norris.

Could you describe your experience of race in America in just 6 words? That’s the very thing Journalist Michele Norris asked 200 strangers to do back in 2015, when she printed a stack of postcards with these simple directions: Race, your story, 6 words, please send. What began as an exercise to spark conversation became The Race Card Project, a growing online archive comprising over 750,000 answers from Americans of every ethnicity and corner of the country. The responses are at once tender and confronting, and they hold a mirror up to a part of American life that is often felt, but rarely openly discussed.

This week on No Small Endeavor, Michele tells the story of the Race Card Project and her latest book  Our Hidden Conversations: What Americans Really Think About Race and Identity. We’ll also cover her memoir The Grace of Silence, and the inspiration behind her podcast Your Mamma’s Kitchen.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Michele Norris⁠

Thank you to our sponsors:

The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more!

SEEDS: Download the free SEEDS app and take one small step today: plant your first seed and see what God can grow.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.

No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Lee and Savannah talk about the ways Lindsay Clancy’s trial is sparking conversations around mental health, justice, and culpability.

This week, we tackle a story listeners have been asking us to cover: the case of Lindsay Clancy, a Massachusetts mother who killed her three children in 2023 after months of worsening psychiatric symptoms and a cocktail of nine prescribed medications. We dig into postpartum psychosis and postpartum depression, why true-crime audiences reach for alternate-perpetrator theories even when a defendant has admitted to the act, and how mental health plays a role in seeking justice amidst tragedy.

**This episode was recorded on August 31st, 2026 prior to the declaration of the mistrial**

Things we mentioned in this episode:

Brandon Flowers album THRASHER

Join us for a No Small Endeavor live show:

September 26 - The Fisher Center at Belmont University

November 22 - The Schermerhorn Symphony Center (Pre-sale available for Patreon members)

Missing Me by Ayana Lage

Royal College of Psychiatrists: Postpartum psychosis

Wicked: For Good - The Subtext

I Study Women Who Kill Their Children. Lindsay Clancy Deserves Mercy. NYT Opinion by Michelle Oberman

Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok

Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter

Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack

Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As we practice the good life with a bit of rest, we asked four of our team members to choose one of their favorite episodes and explain why. Cariad’s summer staff pick — Michele Norris: Race, Your Story, 6 Words, Please Send

“I wanted to create a vehicle that allowed people to talk about this allegedly toxic topic on their own terms.” - Michele Norris.

Could you describe your experience of race in America in just 6 words? That’s the very thing Journalist Michele Norris asked 200 strangers to do back in 2015, when she printed a stack of postcards with these simple directions: Race, your story, 6 words, please send. What began as an exercise to spark conversation became The Race Card Project, a growing online archive comprising over 750,000 answers from Americans of every ethnicity and corner of the country. The responses are at once tender and confronting, and they hold a mirror up to a part of American life that is often felt, but rarely openly discussed.

This week on No Small Endeavor, Michele tells the story of the Race Card Project and her latest book  Our Hidden Conversations: What Americans Really Think About Race and Identity. We’ll also cover her memoir The Grace of Silence, and the inspiration behind her podcast Your Mamma’s Kitchen.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Michele Norris

Thank you to our sponsors:

The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more!

SEEDS: Download the free SEEDS app and take one small step today: plant your first seed and see what God can grow.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.

No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Kristin Neff.

As we practice the good life with a bit of rest, we asked four of our team members to choose one of their favorite episodes and explain why. Jakob’s summer staff pick — Kristin Neff: The Power of Self Compassion

Is high self-esteem crucial to human flourishing or rather a hindrance?

“The biggest problem with self-esteem is that it tends to be contingent,” says Kristin Neff. “We only feel good about ourselves when we succeed.” Far too often, high self-esteem breeds narcissism, bullying, and prejudice.

Kristin is a professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin. She’s also a prominent expert on the topic of self-compassion, which her research has found to be much more effective than self-esteem in helping people flourish. In this episode, she shares what makes self-compassion different from self-esteem, how to cultivate it, and how it can help us to flourish amidst stress, suffering, and everyday life. We also hear briefly from psychiatrist and author Curt Thompson illuminating the negative neurobiological effects of shame while Kristen explains how self compassion can remedy these effects.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Kristin Neff⁠

Thank you to our sponsors:

The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more!

SEEDS: Download the free SEEDS app and take one small step today: plant your first seed and see what God can grow.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.

No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices