No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp

It’s the first birthday of The Subtext! Savannah and Lee celebrate with an “Ask Us Everything” episode, answering listener questions about Bible translations, music, patriotism, how to leave your church community, and more.

Thank you to everyone who made year one of The Subtext special. We love you! Send your AMA questions anytime to us @thesubtextshow on Instagram or to info@nosmallendeavor.com

Things we mentioned in this episode:

Join us for No Small Endeavor Live November 22 - The Schermerhorn Symphony Center

Méditation from the opera Thaïs by Jules Massenet

Adagio for Strings by Samuel Barber

Down There by the Train by Tom Waits

Christmas Lights by Coldplay

A Change is Going to Come by Sam Cooke

Pilgrim by Steve Earle

Little Girl Blue by Nina Simone

Kim Stanley Robinson on No Small Endeavor

Consumerist corner: Stanley cup, Apple AirTag, Exfoliating Lip Balm

Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok

Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter

Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack

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What's holding you back from your dreams? Annie F. Downs wants to help you diagnose and respond to that question. She says often what’s holding you back is rooted in something that was either stolen, killed, or destroyed.

In this conversation, the New York Times bestselling author and Lee talk about her new book, ⁠Don't Let That Hold You Back⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Annie F. Downs⁠

Thank you to our sponsors:

The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more!

SEEDS: Download the free ⁠SEEDS app⁠ and take one small step today: plant your first seed and see what God can grow.

Tickets to Nov 22nd NSE Live in Nashville:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.

No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Marisa Franco.

Attachment theory is trendy right now, and the goal is often the coveted title of "securely attached." If you’re that, then you're always calm, never spiraling, never needing anyone to hold your feelings for you. Psychologist Marisa Franco built her career studying attachment, but when she started to look at the parts of her that weren’t so secure, she began to “approach these parts of myself that I struggle with as these parts are perfect, too.”

Franco is a psychologist and assistant clinical professor at the University of Maryland and the author of the New York Times bestseller Platonic: How the Science of Attachment Can Help You Make and Keep Friends. Her new book, Worth: The New Science of Self-Esteem and Secure Attachment, argues that real security starts on the inside, in how you treat your own feelings, not in how well you manage everyone else's.

Key Ideas

Reassurance Can Backfire — Telling someone they're wonderful can leave them feeling more alone, not less, because it collides with what they already believe about themselves.

Confront Your Own Feelings Before You Hand Them to Someone Else — The healthiest response to hurt starts with naming it privately, not making another person immediately responsible for it.

Worth and Behavior Aren't the Same Measurement — You can do something genuinely unhealthy and still hold full value as a person; collapsing the two makes change harder, not easier.

Shame Rarely Produces Lasting Change — People who change out of shame usually just trade one form of self-punishment for another, since the underlying pain never got addressed.

Memories Are Predictions, Not Fixed Records — Revisiting a painful memory and offering yourself the care you needed at the time can change how that memory is stored and how much power it still holds.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Marisa Franco

Thank you to our sponsors:

The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more!

SEEDS: Download the free SEEDS app and take one small step today: plant your first seed and see what God can grow.

Tickets to Nov 22nd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.

No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Turns out, Gen Z is talking less, scrolling more, and forgetting how to be human.

This week, Savannah and Lee unpack the surprising decline in everyday conversation and why talking to strangers actually matters. Then a listener’s question prompts them to revisit Nate Bargatze drama. Does calling in vs. calling out work with public figures?

And things get spicy when they dive into Meta’s $17 billion child-safety settlement, social media addiction, kids and algorithms, free speech, government regulation, and the complicated question of who gets to shape us online.

Tell us what you think! DM us on Instagram @thesubtextshow

Things we mentioned in this episode:

⁠Gen Zs like me are speaking 451 words fewer every day – and I know why by Esme Gordon Craig⁠

⁠Heather Holleman on No Small Endeavor⁠

⁠Jemar Tisby on No Small Endeavor⁠

⁠James Lawson on No Small Endeavor⁠

⁠Free Speech Part 1 - The Subtext⁠

⁠Free Speech Part 2 - The Subtext⁠

⁠The Social Reckoning Trailer⁠

⁠The Social Network⁠

Follow The Subtext: ⁠Instagram⁠ | ⁠Threads⁠ | ⁠X⁠ | ⁠YouTube⁠ | ⁠TikTok⁠

Follow Lee: ⁠Instagram⁠ | ⁠Twitter⁠ | ⁠Lee's Newsletter⁠

Follow Savannah: ⁠Instagram⁠ | ⁠Substack⁠

Join our Email List: ⁠nosmallendeavor.com⁠
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Attachment theory is trendy right now, and the goal is often the coveted title of "securely attached." If you’re that, then you're always calm, never spiraling, never needing anyone to hold your feelings for you. Psychologist Marisa Franco built her career studying attachment, but when she started to look at the parts of her that weren’t so secure, she began to “approach these parts of myself that I struggle with as these parts are perfect, too.”

Franco is a psychologist and assistant clinical professor at the University of Maryland and the author of the New York Times bestseller ⁠Platonic: How the Science of Attachment Can Help You Make and Keep Friends⁠. Her new book, ⁠Worth: The New Science of Self-Esteem and Secure Attachment⁠, argues that real security starts on the inside, in how you treat your own feelings, not in how well you manage everyone else's.

Key Ideas

Reassurance Can Backfire — Telling someone they're wonderful can leave them feeling more alone, not less, because it collides with what they already believe about themselves.

Confront Your Own Feelings Before You Hand Them to Someone Else — The healthiest response to hurt starts with naming it privately, not making another person immediately responsible for it.

Worth and Behavior Aren't the Same Measurement — You can do something genuinely unhealthy and still hold full value as a person; collapsing the two makes change harder, not easier.

Shame Rarely Produces Lasting Change — People who change out of shame usually just trade one form of self-punishment for another, since the underlying pain never got addressed.

Memories Are Predictions, Not Fixed Records — Revisiting a painful memory and offering yourself the care you needed at the time can change how that memory is stored and how much power it still holds.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Marisa Franco⁠

Thank you to our sponsors:

The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more!

SEEDS: Download the free ⁠SEEDS app⁠ and take one small step today: plant your first seed and see what God can grow.

Tickets to Nov 22nd NSE Live in Nashville:⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.

No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices