The Business of Dance

Recorded October 11, 2026

EPISODE SUMMARY
Paul Kirkland is a dancer, choreographer, creative director and director whose career includes touring with Madonna and Christina Aguilera, performing in Burlesque and Battle of the Year, and working behind the scenes with the Backstreet Boys. Originally from Jacksonville, Florida, Paul moved to Los Angeles at 18 and built a career that expanded from performing onstage to helping shape major productions. In this conversation with Menina Fortunato, he shares how preparation, relationships and a willingness to keep learning opened doors.

Paul takes us inside life on tour, from performing for massive crowds to protecting his body and maintaining relationships while constantly traveling. He explains how a back injury helped prompt his transition into assisting choreographers and learning the details of lighting, staging and production. He also discusses his work on the Backstreet Boys’ DNA tour and Sphere production, plus helping Jaafar Jackson prepare for Michael through ballet and recovery training.

Beyond the credits, Paul opens up about rejection, reinvention and finding opportunities beyond performing. Answering questions from Business of Dance mentees, he shares advice on moving to LA, developing an individual movement style, presenting your work online and adapting your performance for the camera. His story offers dancers an honest look at building a lasting career through curiosity, adaptability and meaningful connections.

SHOW NOTES
(03:09) Starting dance at three and building a foundation in ballet
(04:18) How one audition led to an unexpected first tour
(07:40) Working with Christina Aguilera and touring with Madonna
(10:32) The excitement of touring and performing for massive audiences
(11:57) Protecting your body and making the most of downtime
(13:38) Pivoting from performing to choreography and production
(16:17) Working with the Backstreet Boys and wearing multiple production hats
(17:18) Inside the Backstreet Boys’ immersive Sphere experience
(21:35) Training Jaafar Jackson in ballet and recovery for Michael
(26:01) Handling the disappointment of being released from a film scene
(33:31) Moving to LA young and showing up with confidence
(35:44) Developing your own movement style beyond studio training
(39:25) How social media, agencies and casting platforms help dancers get seen
(41:38) Creating a digital portfolio that makes your work easy to share
(43:06) Adapting your performance from the live stage to the camera

ABOUT PAUL KIRKLAND
Paul Kirkland is a Los Angeles–based dancer, choreographer, creative director and director originally from Jacksonville, Florida. He began dancing at three and moved to LA at 18 to pursue a professional career. His credits include touring with Madonna and Christina Aguilera, performing in Burlesque and Battle of the Year, and choreographing performances for Dancing with the Stars. His work has expanded into production, stage direction and artist development.

CONNECT WITH PAUL
Instagram: @paulkirklandcreative

Recorded October 4, 2026

EPISODE SUMMARY
Misha Gabriel is a dancer, choreographer and actor whose career includes working with Janet Jackson and Mariah Carey, rehearsing for Michael Jackson’s This Is It, contributing choreography to Justin Timberlake’s tours, and playing Eddy in Step Up Revolution and Step Up All In. But behind those credits are cancelled tours, devastating rejection and moments when his next chapter was anything but certain. In this conversation with Menina Fortunato, Misha shares what it takes to keep building a career when the opportunities you worked for disappear.

From booking his first tour at 16 to moving to Los Angeles at 17, Misha reveals how training, mentorship and relationships opened doors. He takes us inside the Michael Jackson audition where he was cut, the unexpected second chance that changed his life, and the lessons he learned rehearsing for This Is It. He also opens up about transitioning into acting and creating a European teaching tour instead of waiting for someone else to hire him.

The conversation goes beyond the highlight reel, exploring intentional training, genuine networking, financial preparation and finding your own creative voice. Misha also answers questions from Business of Dance mentees about representation, choreography, moving to LA and handling the emotional highs and lows of the industry. This episode is for dancers, aspiring choreographers and parents who want an honest look at building a sustainable career while protecting the love of dance that started it all.

SHOW NOTES
(02:45) Growing up in a dance family and discovering hip-hop
(05:45) Booking Aaron Carter’s tour at 16 and moving to LA
(11:33) Choreographing for Justin Timberlake and clarifying his touring credits
(12:36) Working with Janet Jackson and navigating cancelled tours
(17:24) Getting cut from Michael Jackson’s audition, then earning another chance
(22:34) Rehearsing This Is It and rebuilding after Michael’s passing
(26:04) Lessons from Michael Jackson’s preparation, knowledge and attention to detail
(29:39) Landing Step Up Revolution and pursuing an acting career
(33:42) Choreographing for the Sacramento Kings and building a teaching tour
(36:43) Creating opportunities through outreach and treating dance as a business
(38:54) Building genuine relationships, staying connected and leading with value
(48:14) Trusting your creative instincts and finding your choreographic voice
(52:08) Training intentionally and preparing for a move to Los Angeles
(1:03:46) Choreographing for So You Think You Can Dance and handling criticism
(1:09:39) Navigating rejection without tying your happiness to career achievements

ABOUT MISHA GABRIEL
Misha Gabriel is a professional dancer, choreographer, actor and educator. His work includes performing with Janet Jackson and Mariah Carey, rehearsing for Michael Jackson’s This Is It, and portraying Eddy in Step Up Revolution and Step Up All In. His choreography credits include contributions to Justin Timberlake’s tours and So You Think You Can Dance. He also teaches internationally, helping dancers develop their artistry and professional skills.

CONNECT WITH MISHA
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mishagabriel/

Recorded August 3, 2026 | The Business of Dance VIP Day, Los Angeles

EPISODE SUMMARY
Tina Landon and Travis Payne helped create the choreography for Michael and Janet Jackson’s “Scream.” In this live conversation with Menina Fortunato, the award-winning choreographers reunite to share two very different perspectives on the same iconic project—and the career lessons behind it. Recorded at The Business of Dance VIP Day in Los Angeles, this episode brings dancers into the room with two artists whose work has shaped music videos and world tours.

Tina traces her journey from Lancaster, California, to working with Janet Jackson, while Travis shares how his training in Atlanta and a homemade audition video opened the door to Rhythm Nation. Together, they revisit the pressure of creating for Michael and Janet: different movement styles, separate rehearsals, changing production demands, and the challenge of making the choreography feel right for both performers. Their stories reveal how much collaboration, preparation, and adaptability happen before the cameras roll.

The conversation then opens to questions from Business of Dance mentees about career longevity, saving money, artistic identity, and what makes a dancer someone choreographers want to hire again. From attitude and reputation to arriving prepared and continuing to learn, Tina and Travis offer practical lessons for aspiring professional dancers, working performers, and choreographers building careers that last.

SHOW NOTES
00:00 – Preview: dancing with Michael and Janet Jackson
02:46 – Menina welcomes Tina Landon and Travis Payne
07:26 – Tina’s beginnings and her path to Janet Jackson
10:12 – Travis’s journey from Atlanta to Rhythm Nation
16:29 – Creating “Scream”: Tina’s side of the story
23:32 – Choreographing for Michael and Janet’s different styles
26:32 – Travis’s path from Dangerous to “Scream”
30:13 – Separate rehearsals and the secrecy surrounding “Scream”
36:41 – Last-minute sets and the realities of production
42:42 – Why “Scream” continues to connect across generations
46:00 – Mentee Q&A: money and building a dance career
51:33 – Staying true to yourself for a lasting career
1:00:00 – What makes a dancer someone choreographers will hire?
1:02:44 – The qualities that earn repeat bookings
1:06:37 – Advice for dancers who want to choreograph

ABOUT TINA LANDON & TRAVIS PAYNE
Tina Landon is an Emmy-nominated choreographer and creative director whose credits include Janet Jackson, Michael Jackson, Rihanna, Ricky Martin, and Christina Aguilera. Her work includes Janet’s janet. and The Velvet Rope tours and co-choreography for “Scream.” Raised in Lancaster, California, she moved to Hollywood to pursue dance, performed as a Laker Girl, and appeared in Michael Jackson’s “Smooth Criminal.” She continues to share her experience with dancers navigating professional careers.

Travis Payne is an Emmy-nominated choreographer and director who began touring with Janet Jackson’s Rhythm Nation 1814 World Tour. His extensive work with Michael Jackson includes the Dangerous and HIStory tours, “Scream,” and This Is It. His collaborators also include Lady Gaga, Beyoncé, and Usher. The founder of Travis Payne Productions, he has earned MTV and American Choreography Awards for his work. His career spans live performance, music videos, concert production, and film, bringing a broad perspective to developing and sustaining a career in entertainment.

CONNECT WITH TINA LANDON
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamtinalandon/

CONNECT WITH TRAVIS PAYNE
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/travispayne1/
Website: https://www.travispayne.com

THE BUSINESS OF DANCE
https://www.bizofdance.com/thepodcast
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Recorded September 20, 2026

EPISODE SUMMARY
Chad Geiger, a Los Angeles talent agent with The Movement Talent Agency, joins Menina Fortunato to explain what helps dancers get noticed, earn representation, and build lasting careers. Drawing on his own work with Dua Lipa, Dolly Parton, and James Corden, he shares what he understands now from the other side of the audition table—and what he wishes he had done differently as a performer.

Chad traces his unexpected path from gymnastics in Texas to dance classes in college, professional work in Los Angeles, and an agency internship during the pandemic. He recalls how following directions helped him book a Dua Lipa music video and how embracing his personality changed his approach to auditions. He also explains why training with intention means seeking growth, building relationships, and getting into rooms with working professionals.

The conversation turns to the business habits that support a dance career: clear communication, updated materials, availability, and a reputation for reliability. In a mentee Q&A, Chad discusses agency submissions, dance footage, specialty skills, working outside major markets, and the patience needed to develop a career. This episode is perfect for aspiring professional dancers, dancers seeking an agent, and represented performers who want a stronger partnership with their agency.

SHOW NOTES
(00:00) – Introducing Chad Geiger and his dance career
(02:10) – From Dallas gymnastics to discovering dance in college
(06:59) – Booking Dua Lipa and embracing your individuality
(13:18) – Training with intention and building industry relationships
(18:22) – From MTA dancer and intern to talent agent
(27:00) – Agent communication, updated materials, and book-out dates
(36:00) – Building a strong agency submission and dance reel
(42:19) – Understanding opportunities at a boutique talent agency
(46:47) – Seeking representation while living outside major markets
(52:38) – Using tap skills to create a distinctive career
(54:24) – Professional habits that help dancers get booked again
(56:52) – Submission timing, referrals, and making a strong impression
(66:15) – Patience and building a professional career over time
(69:02) – Why reply-all matters when communicating about jobs
(73:42) – How to connect with Chad and MTA

ABOUT CHAD GEIGER
Chad Geiger is a Los Angeles-based talent agent with The Movement Talent Agency and has more than a decade of experience in the dance industry. As a performer, he worked with Dua Lipa, James Corden, Dolly Parton, Meek Mill, and Miguel, with appearances on Carpool Karaoke, The Late Late Show with James Corden, and the BET Awards.

Originally from the Dallas area, Chad trained as a gymnast before discovering dance in college. After building experience in Texas, he moved to Los Angeles and signed with MTA as a dancer. An internship during the pandemic later led to an assistant position and, eventually, a move into talent representation. Having experienced the industry as both a dancer and an agent, Chad is passionate about helping the next generation prepare for professional opportunities. His approach emphasizes intentional training, clear communication, strong submission materials, and helping dancers recognize and develop the qualities that make them distinctive.

CONNECT WITH CHAD GEIGER
Instagram: @chad_geiger
Instagram: @mtaagency

Recording / Interview Date: October 20, 2025

EPISODE SUMMARY
What helps a dancer build a career that lasts? Join Menina Fortunato on the red carpet at Avalon Hollywood for the 2025 Industry Dance Awards, where conversations with performers, choreographers, educators, and industry leaders go beyond the spotlight to explore the work, relationships, and resilience behind a life in dance.

From embracing your individuality to asking for help and protecting your reputation, this special episode brings together practical lessons for dancers, parents, teachers, and dance-industry professionals. Guests reflect on setbacks, creative opportunities, social media, and the importance of being someone others want to work with. Ian Eastwood champions uniqueness, Travis Wall speaks about seeking support, and Denise Wall shares perspective on learning through challenges.

At the heart of the evening is Dancers Against Cancer. Tia Stokes, Jocelyn Basham, and Noah Lands bring the conversation back to community, compassion, and supporting dance families affected by cancer. Alongside career advice and personal stories, these interviews capture the projects and priorities guests shared on the night of the event.

Whether you work in dance or simply love the art form, step behind the awards for an honest look at what sustains this community: purposeful work, human connection, and the courage to keep growing.

SHOW NOTES
00:00 Red carpet highlights and welcome
01:59 Tia Stokes: Authenticity and resilience
03:31 Jocelyn Basham: The power of human connection
07:09 Enola Bédard: Enjoying the journey
12:40 Protecting yourself as an artist
15:10 Travis Wall: The courage to ask for help
18:03 Noah Lands: The story behind Dancers Against Cancer
22:29 Denise Wall: Learning from setbacks
32:04 Why your reputation matters
32:59 Brooke Lipton: Dance and television
45:24 Social media as your future résumé
47:15 Ian Eastwood: Embracing your individuality
54:38 Blake McGrath: Family and purpose
1:03:37 Building a lasting dance career
1:10:55 Bringing character to your movement

ABOUT INDUSTRY DANCE AWARDS
The Industry Dance Awards celebrates the people shaping dance and supports Dancers Against Cancer. This red carpet special brings together artists, educators, and advocates to share career lessons and highlight the importance of supporting dance families affected by cancer.

CONNECT WITH INDUSTRY DANCE AWARDS & DANCERS AGAINST CANCER
Industry Dance Awards: https://www.industrydanceawards.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/industrydanceawards/
Dancers Against Cancer: https://imadanceragainstcancer.org
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/imadanceragainstcancer/
The Business of Dance: https://www.bizofdance.com/thepodcast

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