Tales From Aztlantis

What happens when Indigenous DNA becomes the next frontier of resource extraction? In part two of this episode of Tales from Aztlantis, Kurly Tlapoyawa and Ruben Arellano Tlakatekatl are joined once again by Joe Yracheta, an Amerindigenous scientist of Purépecha and Rarámuri heritage and a leader with the Native BioData Consortium. Together, they explore one of the most pressing—and least discussed—issues facing Indigenous communities today: the fight for Indigenous data sovereignty.
Joe explains how genetic information, biological samples, medicinal plants, and even traditional agricultural knowledge have become valuable commodities in the global biotechnology economy. The conversation traces the long history of colonial extraction from Indigenous peoples, showing how today's race to collect biodata follows the same patterns that once drove the exploitation of land, labor, and natural resources.
The discussion examines how universities, pharmaceutical companies, and governments collect and use Indigenous genetic data, often under the promise of improving public health, only for that information to later be commercialized or repurposed without meaningful community consent. Joe shares examples involving the Havasupai Tribe, the Amish, and Indigenous communities throughout the Americas, illustrating how existing legal and ethical frameworks frequently fail to protect Indigenous rights.
Kurly and Ruben also explore the growing role of artificial intelligence, open-data policies, and scientific publishing in accelerating these challenges. They discuss why Indigenous communities are demanding greater control over their own biological resources, why "informed consent" is often insufficient, and how Indigenous-led institutions like the Native BioData Consortium are working to safeguard tribal data within Indigenous legal jurisdictions.
The conversation broadens into larger questions about scientific ethics, profit-sharing, the commercialization of traditional crops such as cacao, mezcal, avocados, and corn, and the continuing legacy of colonialism in modern research. Rather than rejecting science, Joe argues for a model built on trust, transparency, and genuine collaboration that respects Indigenous sovereignty while producing stronger, more ethical research.
This episode challenges listeners to rethink who owns biological knowledge, who benefits from scientific discovery, and what true Indigenous self-determination should look like in the age of genomics and AI.
If you enjoy conversations that examine history, archaeology, science, and Indigenous perspectives through a critical lens, be sure to subscribe to Tales from Aztlantis, leave a review, and share this episode with others interested in the future of Indigenous rights and scientific ethics.
listener comments? Feedback? Shoot us a text!
Use the promo code “KURLY” in the "How did you hear about this adventure?" field when you sign up for a $200 discount.
Visit skeptoid.com/adventures to learn more and reserve your spot. I hope you'll join me this December as we explore the mysteries of the Maya together.
This December, I'll be joining Skeptoid Adventures as your guide for The Mysteries of the Maya, where we'll travel through the Yucatán exploring remarkable archaeological sites, uncovering the real history behind the Maya civilization, and separating fact from fiction along the way. 
To reserve your spot, all you need is a fully refundable $500 deposit. Your deposit is refundable through August 1, so you can reserve your place with confidence. After Au
Lignum is a haven for culture, rest, and resistance. We believe in celebrating community and honoring the land that holds us. At our urban “milpa,” we practice indigenous science that respects the natural cycles of the region, and most of our workshops are hosted by indigenous and local experts. Every project we do is grounded in collective memory, creativity, and respect for the land and its people. 
Support the show
Order "NEVER WILL IT BE LOST" and get $5 off!
Support Lignum: A Cultural Haven in Mérida

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Kurly Tlapoyawa is an archaeologist, ethnohistorian, and filmmaker. His research covers Mesoamerica, the American Southwest, and the historical connections between the two regions. He is the author of numerous books and has presented lectures at the University of New Mexico, Harvard University, Yale University, San Diego State University, and numerous others. He most recently released his documentary short film "Guardians of the Purple Kingdom," and is a cultural consultant for Nickelodeon Animation Studios.
@kurlytlapoyawa

Ruben Arellano Tlakatekatl is a scholar, activist, and professor of history. His research explores Chicana/Chicano indigeneity, Mexican indigenist nationalism, and Coahuiltecan identity resurgence. Other areas of research include Aztlan (US Southwest), Anawak (Mesoamerica), and Native North America. He has presented and published widely on these topics and has taught courses at various institutions. He currently teaches history at Dallas College – Mountain View Campus. 
Find us: 
Bluesky
...

What happens when Indigenous DNA becomes the next frontier of resource extraction?
In Part 1 of this thought-provoking episode of Tales from Aztlantis, Kurly Tlapoyawa and Ruben Arellano Tlakatekatl are joined by Joe Yracheta, an Amerindigenous scientist of Purépecha and Rarámuri heritage and a leader with the Native BioData Consortium. Together, they explore one of the most pressing—and least discussed—issues facing Indigenous communities today: the fight for Indigenous data sovereignty.
Joe explains how genetic information, biological samples, medicinal plants, and even traditional agricultural knowledge have become valuable commodities in the global biotechnology economy. The conversation traces the long history of colonial extraction from Indigenous peoples, showing how today's race to collect biodata follows the same patterns that once drove the exploitation of land, labor, and natural resources.
The discussion examines how universities, pharmaceutical companies, and governments collect and use Indigenous genetic data, often under the promise of improving public health, only for that information to later be commercialized or repurposed without meaningful community consent. Joe shares examples involving the Havasupai Tribe, the Amish, and Indigenous communities throughout the Americas, illustrating how existing legal and ethical frameworks frequently fail to protect Indigenous rights.
If you enjoy conversations that examine history, archaeology, science, and Indigenous perspectives through a critical lens, be sure to subscribe to Tales from Aztlantis, leave a review, and share this episode with others interested in the future of Indigenous rights and scientific ethics.
listener comments? Feedback? Shoot us a text!
Use the promo code “KURLY” in the "How did you hear about this adventure?" field when you sign up for a $200 discount.
Visit skeptoid.com/adventures to learn more and reserve your spot. I hope you'll join me this December as we explore the mysteries of the Maya together.
This December, I'll be joining Skeptoid Adventures as your guide for The Mysteries of the Maya, where we'll travel through the Yucatán exploring remarkable archaeological sites, uncovering the real history behind the Maya civilization, and separating fact from fiction along the way. 
To reserve your spot, all you need is a fully refundable $500 deposit. Your deposit is refundable through August 1, so you can reserve your place with confidence. After Au
Lignum is a haven for culture, rest, and resistance. We believe in celebrating community and honoring the land that holds us. At our urban “milpa,” we practice indigenous science that respects the natural cycles of the region, and most of our workshops are hosted by indigenous and local experts. Every project we do is grounded in collective memory, creativity, and respect for the land and its people. 
Support the show
Order "NEVER WILL IT BE LOST" and get $5 off!
Support Lignum: A Cultural Haven in Mérida

Your Hosts:

Kurly Tlapoyawa is an archaeologist, ethnohistorian, and filmmaker. His research covers Mesoamerica, the American Southwest, and the historical connections between the two regions. He is the author of numerous books and has presented lectures at the University of New Mexico, Harvard University, Yale University, San Diego State University, and numerous others. He most recently released his documentary short film "Guardians of the Purple Kingdom," and is a cultural consultant for Nickelodeon Animation Studios.
@kurlytlapoyawa

Ruben Arellano Tlakatekatl is a scholar, activist, and professor of history. His research explores Chicana/Chicano indigeneity, Mexican indigenist nationalism, and Coahuiltecan identity resurgence. Other areas of research include Aztlan (US Southwest), Anawak (Mesoamerica), and Native North America. He has presented and published widely on these topics and has taught courses at various institutions. He currently teaches history at Dallas College – Mountain View Campus. 
Find us: 
Bluesky
...

Did the Aztecs have a concept of virtue? In this episode, we dive into a lively scholarly debate over the Nawatl phrase kwalli and yektli ("good" and "right") and whether it can properly be translated as "virtue." Examining colonial dictionaries, the Florentine Codex, the Wewetlahtolli, and the work of scholars from the sixteenth century to today, we explore the evidence for a distinctly Nawa ethical tradition. Along the way, we discuss the challenges of translating Indigenous philosophies and why understanding concepts, not just individual words, is essential to appreciating Nawatl thought.
Sources:
Anderson, Arthur J. O., and Charles E. Dibble, eds. and trans. Florentine Codex: General History of the Things of New Spain. 13 vols. Santa Fe: School of American Research and University of Utah, 1950–1982.
Berdan, Frances F. "Concepts of Ethnicity and Class in Aztec-Period Mexico." In Ethnic Identity in Nahua Mesoamerica: The View from Archaeology, Art History, Ethnohistory, and Contemporary Ethnography, by Frances F. Berdan, John K. Chance, Alan R. Sandstrom, Barbara L. Stark, James M. Taggart, and Emily Umberger, 105–132. Salt Lake City: University of Utah Press, 2008.
Carochi, Horacio. Arte de la Lengua Mexicana con la Declaración de los Adverbios Della. Mexico City: Juan Ruyz, 1645.
Clavijero, Francisco Javier. Arte de la Lengua Mexicana. Puebla: Imprenta del Real Seminario Palafoxiano, 1754.
González González, Osiris. Tlamatiliztli: La sabiduría del pueblo nahua. Filosofía intercultural y derecho a la tierra (México). Archaeological Studies Leiden University. Leiden: Leiden University Press, 2024.Maffie, James. Aztec Philosophy: Understanding a World in Motion. Boulder: University Press of Colorado, 2014.
Madajczak, Julia. Review of Discourses of the Elders: The Aztec Huehuetlatolli: A First English Translation, by Sebastian Purcell. Inter-American Journal of Philosophy 15, no. 1 (2024): 42–48. 
Molina, Alonso de. Vocabulario en Lengua Castellana y Mexicana y Mexicana y Castellana. Mexico City: Antonio de Spinosa, 1571.
Purcell, Sebastian. Discourses of the Elders: The Aztec Huehuetlahtolli, a First English Translation. Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 2025.
Sahagún, Bernardino de. Primeros Memoriales. Edited and translated by Thelma D. Sullivan. Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1997.
Siméon, Rémi. Diccionario de la lengua náhuatl o mexicana. 13th ed. Mexico City: Siglo XXI Editores, 1997.
Townsend, Camilla. Review of Discourses of the Elders: The Aztec Huehuetlahtolli, a First English Translation, by Sebastian Purcell. Ethnohistory 72, no. 1 (2025): 181–183.
listener comments? Feedback? Shoot us a text!
Use the promo code “KURLY” in the "How did you hear about this adventure?" field when you sign up for a $200 discount.
Visit skeptoid.com/adventures to learn more and reserve your spot. I hope you'll join me this December as we explore the mysteries of the Maya together.
This December, I'll be joining Skeptoid Adventures as your guide for The Mysteries of the Maya, where we'll travel through the Yucatán exploring remarkable archaeological sites, uncovering the real history behind the Maya civilization, and separating fact from fiction along the way. 
To reserve your spot, all you need is a fully refundable $500 deposit. Your deposit is refundable through August 1, so you can reserve your place with confidence. After Au
Support the show
Order "NEVER WILL IT BE LOST" and get $5 off!
Support Lignum: A Cultural Haven in Mérida

Your Hosts:

Kurly Tlapoyawa is an archaeologist, ethnohistorian, and filmmaker. His research covers Mesoamerica, the American Southwest, and the historical connections between the two regions. He is the author of numerous books and has presented lectures at the University of New Mexico, Harvard University, Yale University, San Diego State University, and numerous others. He most recently released his documentary short film "Guardians of the Purple Kingdom," and is a cultural consultant for Nickelodeon Animation Studios.
@kurlytlapoyawa

Ruben Arellano Tlakatekatl is a scholar, activist, and professor of history. His research explores Chicana/Chicano indigeneity, Mexican indigenist nationalism, and Coahuiltecan identity resurgence. Other areas of research include Aztlan (US Southwest), Anawak (Mesoamerica), and Native North America. He has presented and published widely on these topics and has taught courses at various institutions. He currently teaches history at Dallas College – Mountain View Campus. 
Find us: 
Bluesky
...

Aztec Philosophy, Ethics, and the Outward Path with Dr. Sebastian Purcell
What if living a good life isn't about chasing happiness, but about building strong relationships and fulfilling your responsibilities to others?
In this episode of Tales From Aztlantis, Kurly Tlapoyawa and Ruben Arellano Tlakatekatl sit down with philosopher Dr. Sebastian Purcell to discuss Aztec (Nahua) philosophy, ethics, language, and his groundbreaking books Discourses of the Elders and The Outward Path. Together they explore why Nahua philosophy deserves to stand alongside Greek, Indian, and Chinese philosophical traditions, and why many of its teachings remain surprisingly relevant today.
Dr. Purcell shares the story of how he transitioned from computer science and mathematical logic into philosophy before discovering the rich intellectual tradition preserved in Classical Nahuatl texts. He explains the challenges of producing the first intentionally philosophical English translation of the Huehuetlahtolli and why translating philosophy requires different choices than translating historical documents.
The conversation then turns to one of the central ideas in Nahua ethics: that living well is fundamentally a social endeavor. Rather than viewing ethics as an individual pursuit, the Nahuas understood human flourishing as something achieved through cooperation, mutual obligation, and healthy communities. Dr. Purcell contrasts this worldview with Aristotle, Confucius, Stoicism, and Buddhism, arguing that Nahua philosophy emphasizes an "outward path" that begins with our relationships before turning inward.
Along the way, the discussion explores the meaning of concepts such as in ixtli in yollotl (face and heart), in kwalli in yektli (the good and the right), rootedness, centeredness, and the famous Nahua metaphor of the slippery earth. The hosts also discuss whether modern scholars sometimes underestimate the philosophical sophistication of Nahua texts by insisting on overly literal translations.
The latter portion of the interview examines how to distinguish Indigenous teachings from later colonial Christian additions in the Huehuetlahtolli. Dr. Purcell proposes that passages emphasizing intrinsic reasons for acting well are more likely to preserve precolonial Nahua thought, while passages grounded primarily in divine punishment often reflect later Christian influence.
Finally, the conversation tackles one of the most debated subjects in Nahua studies: the controversial concept of Ometeotl, Miguel León-Portilla's influence on the field, and what current scholarship can and cannot confidently say about pre-Hispanic Nahua theology.
Whether you're interested in philosophy, Mesoamerican history, Nahuatl language, archaeology, or Indigenous knowledge, this episode offers an engaging introduction to one of the world's richest philosophical traditions.
Topics Discussed
Dr. Sebastian Purcell's path from mathematics to philosophy
Translating the Huehuetlahtolli into English
Why Nahua philosophy deserves recognition as philosophy
Ethics versus morality in Nahua thought
The social nature of virtue
"The Outward Path" and why relationships matter more than individual happiness
Face and heart (in ixtli in yollotl)
The slippery earth and rootedness
Nahua concepts of virtue and the good life
Classical Nahuatl and philosophical language
Decolonizing interpretations of Nahua texts
Separating Indigenous teachings from Christian interpolation
Miguel León-Portilla, Ometeotl, and ongoing scholarly debates
Books Mentioned
Discourses of the Elders: The Aztec Huehuetlahtolli
The Outward Path: The Wisdom of the Aztecs
Memorable Quotes
"Acting well is inherently a social activity, not an individual activity."
"You're not really after happiness. You're after a rich, meaningful life with your friends and family around you."
"The goal of ethics is to help you live better."
"Go outward first, then come in."
Connect With Tales From Aztlantis
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to Tales From Aztlantis, leave a review, and share it with someone interested in Indigenous philosophy, Nahua culture, and Mesoamerican history.
Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
listener comments? Feedback? Shoot us a text!
Use the promo code “KURLY” in the "How did you hear about this adventure?" field when you sign up for a $200 discount.
Visit skeptoid.com/adventures to learn more and reserve your spot. I hope you'll join me this December as we explore the mysteries of the Maya together.
This December, I'll be joining Skeptoid Adventures as your guide for The Mysteries of the Maya, where we'll travel through the Yucatán exploring remarkable archaeological sites, uncovering the real history behind the Maya civilization, and separating fact from fiction along the way. 
To reserve your spot, all you need is a fully refundable $500 deposit. Your deposit is refundable through August 1, so you can reserve your place with confidence. After Au
Lignum is a haven for culture, rest, and resistance. We believe in celebrating community and honoring the land that holds us. At our urban “milpa,” we practice indigenous science that respects the natural cycles of the region, and most of our workshops are hosted by indigenous and local experts. Every project we do is grounded in collective memory, creativity, and respect for the land and its people. 
Order "NEVER WILL IT BE LOST" and get $5 off!
Support Lignum: A Cultural Haven in Mérida

Your Hosts:

Kurly Tlapoyawa is an archaeologist, ethnohistorian, and filmmaker. His research covers Mesoamerica, the American Southwest, and the historical connections between the two regions. He is the author of numerous books and has presented lectures at the University of New Mexico, Harvard University, Yale University, San Diego State University, and numerous others. He most recently released his documentary short film "Guardians of the Purple Kingdom," and is a cultural consultant for Nickelodeon Animation Studios.
@kurlytlapoyawa

Ruben Arellano Tlakatekatl is a scholar, activist, and professor of history. His research explores Chicana/Chicano indigeneity, Mexican indigenist nationalism, and Coahuiltecan identity resurgence. Other areas of research include Aztlan (US Southwest), Anawak (Mesoamerica), and Native North America. He has presented and published widely on these topics and has taught courses at various institutions. He currently teaches history at Dallas College – Mountain View Campus. 
Find us: 
Bluesky
...

Family, friends, and listeners:
We gather virtually at a momentous historical threshold. The United States is engulfed in the pageantry, corporate sponsorships, and national choreography of its Semiquincentennial—the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration
of Independence. Across the landscape, museum exhibitions are being mounted, monument plaques polished, and civic speeches drafted.
We are being summoned, collectively, to step into a grand civic liturgy: to
look back upon 1776 with an unclouded eye of pride, to venerate the so-called “Founding Fathers,” and to reaffirm a singular narrative of unfolding democratic progress. But as citizens of a deeply fractured landscape, we must ask the question that always haunts the perimeter of the American bonfire: 
Who is this celebration for?

Sources 
Primary Sources:
William Apess, Eulogy on King Philip, ed. Paul Royster, American Studies 39 (Published by the author, 1837; 2nd ed., Zea E-Books, 2022), https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/zeaamericanstudies/39
Frederick Douglass, “What to the Slave Is the Fourth of July?,” Oration Delivered in Corinthian Hall, Rochester (Rochester: Lee, Man, and Co, 1852), 14-37, https://loveman.sdsu.edu/docs/1852FrederickDouglass.pdf
Secondary Sources:
Patricia Bizzell, “The 4th of July and the 22nd of December: The Function of Cultural Archives in Persuasion, as Shown by Frederick Douglass and William Apess,” College Composition & Communication 48, no. 1 (1997): 44–60, https://doi.org/10.58680/ccc19973130
Drew Lopenzina, Through an Indian’s Looking-Glass: A Cultural Biography of William Apess, Pequot (University of Massachusetts Press, 2017), https://doi.org/10.2307/j.ctv346tn6
Drew Lopenzina, “What to the American Indian Is the Fourth of July? Moving beyond Abolitionist Rhetoric in William Apess’s Eulogy on King Philip,” American Literature 82, no. 4 (2010): 673–99, https://doi.org/10.1215/00029831-2010-041.
Mimi Yang, “What Does the 250th Anniversary of the Independence Mean to a ‘Browner’ America?,” On_Culture: The Open Journal for the Study of Culture(Germany) 15 (October 2023), https://doi.org/10.22029/oc.2023.1349
listener comments? Feedback? Shoot us a text!
Use the promo code “KURLY” in the "How did you hear about this adventure?" field when you sign up for a $200 discount.
Visit skeptoid.com/adventures to learn more and reserve your spot. I hope you'll join me this December as we explore the mysteries of the Maya together.
This December, I'll be joining Skeptoid Adventures as your guide for The Mysteries of the Maya, where we'll travel through the Yucatán exploring remarkable archaeological sites, uncovering the real history behind the Maya civilization, and separating fact from fiction along the way. 
To reserve your spot, all you need is a fully refundable $500 deposit. Your deposit is refundable through August 1, so you can reserve your place with confidence. After Au
Lignum is a haven for culture, rest, and resistance. We believe in celebrating community and honoring the land that holds us. At our urban “milpa,” we practice indigenous science that respects the natural cycles of the region, and most of our workshops are hosted by indigenous and local experts. Every project we do is grounded in collective memory, creativity, and respect for the land and its people. 
Order "NEVER WILL IT BE LOST" and get $5 off!
Support Lignum: A Cultural Haven in Mérida

Your Hosts:

Kurly Tlapoyawa is an archaeologist, ethnohistorian, and filmmaker. His research covers Mesoamerica, the American Southwest, and the historical connections between the two regions. He is the author of numerous books and has presented lectures at the University of New Mexico, Harvard University, Yale University, San Diego State University, and numerous others. He most recently released his documentary short film "Guardians of the Purple Kingdom," and is a cultural consultant for Nickelodeon Animation Studios.
@kurlytlapoyawa

Ruben Arellano Tlakatekatl is a scholar, activist, and professor of history. His research explores Chicana/Chicano indigeneity, Mexican indigenist nationalism, and Coahuiltecan identity resurgence. Other areas of research include Aztlan (US Southwest), Anawak (Mesoamerica), and Native North America. He has presented and published widely on these topics and has taught courses at various institutions. He currently teaches history at Dallas College – Mountain View Campus. 
Find us: 
Bluesky
...