Outlawed

It was nearly 17 years ago that Dr. George Tiller was assassinated in his church for providing abortion care. In this episode, Bev and Jonas speak with retired OB-Gyn Dr. Shelley Sella, who was trained by Dr. Tiller, and calls him “a midwife at heart.”  She became one of the first women to openly provide third-trimester abortion care in the United States, and advocates for a midwifery model of care that centers the patient and prioritizes observation and patience. Her book, Beyond Limits: Stories of Third-Trimester Abortion Care (Beacon Press) is a testament to the critical importance of abortion without restrictions, and comes out in paperback on May 26th.
Want to make a tax-deductible donation to support our work and keep us ad-free? Link to donate here.  
Have an idea for a guest or a topic? Email us here: [email protected]
For Outlawed merch: https://outlawedpodcast.com/merch/

Wandering wombs? Terrifying tampons? After-birth abortions? Science keeps advancing, but peddlers of misinformation persist. In this episode, fact-wielding OB-Gyns Bev and Jonas become a myth-busting trio with the addition of OB-Gyn Dr. Fran, who went viral fighting shady claims with clarity and humor in the arenas of TikTok and Instagram. With tips on how to distinguish legitimate accounts, when to engage, and what works best in a medium too short for nuance, you might just be inspired to become a trusted source of facts about reproductive health in your own online communities. 
Find Dr. Fran on social media @PagingDrFran
Want a cool contraception sweater? https://pagingdrfran-shop.fourthwall.com/
Want to make a tax-deductible donation to support our work and keep us ad-free? Go here:   https://www.gifts.duke.edu/dukehealth?designation=391001053
Have an idea for a guest or a topic? Email us here: [email protected]
For Outlawed merch: https://outlawedpodcast.com/merch/

The who, where, when, and how of abortion in the United States is challenging to measure, yet understanding the healthcare landscape post-Dobbs remains important for meeting patient needs. The Guttmacher Institute is a trusted source for abortion data collection and analysis, and released full-year 2025 abortion incidence and travel data this week. Bev and Jonas ask all their nerdy questions and receive thoughtful answers from Guttmacher data scientist Isaac Maddow-Zimet. Together, they form a poignant picture of the lengths people will go to obtain care, and why the benefits of data collection outweigh the risks. 
Want to make a tax-deductible donation to support our work and keep us ad-free? Go here:   https://www.gifts.duke.edu/dukehealth?designation=391001053
Have an idea for a guest or a topic? Email us here: [email protected]
For Outlawed merch: https://outlawedpodcast.com/merch/

As abortion providers with families of their own, Bev and Jonas know that abortion is an essential part of many parenting stories. There is no right way to have a family, though today’s guest Jamilah Lemieux will offer great advice and insight if you ask. Jamilah is an author and cultural critic, and pens the Care and Feeding advice column for Slate. She chose both motherhood and abortion as a single parent, and her experiences inspired her to talk to other Black single mothers for her new book, “Black. Single. Mother. Real Life Tales of Longing and Belonging (Penguin Random House 2026), which just came out!
Want to make a tax-deductible donation to support our work and keep us ad-free? Go here.
For Outlawed merch: https://outlawedpodcast.com/merch/
Email us at [email protected].

Bev and Jonas leave their white coats and their egos behind to better understand the existing network of abortion care outside the clinic. Science journalist Rebecca Kelliher, author of the book Just Pills: The Extraordinary Story of A Revolution in Abortion Care (Beacon Press 2025), provides global context to the like-minded outlaws and heroes making medication abortion accessible. Public health specialist and Plan C co-founder Elisa Wells (plancpills.org) offers a first-hand account of the innovative research transforming how you get pills by mail in all 50 states, despite the bans.
Want to make a tax-deductible donation to support our work and keep us ad-free? Go here:   https://www.gifts.duke.edu/dukehealth?designation=391001053
Check out our substack newsletter here:  outlawed.substack.com