Today on What Rough Beast, we talk to Jon Ronson, the masterful narrative storyteller behind the podcast "Things Fell Apart" and author of numerous acclaimed books. Jon has spent decades chronicling how America came unraveled, with particular expertise in tracking the origins of conspiracy theories and culture wars.In this episode, we discuss:* The extraordinary coincidence of timing: How virtually every major culture war that has engulfed America since 2020 erupted within just 20 days of each other in late May/early June 2020, right after George Floyd's murder* The deadly origins of "excited delirium": Jon traces how a bogus medical diagnosis created in 1980s Miami to cover up the murders of 32 Black sex workers became the justification police officers used while standing over George Floyd's body* Why pandemics make people go insane: Drawing on historical accounts from ancient Rome to medieval plagues, we explore why viral outbreaks reliably trigger mass delusions and conspiracy thinking* The future of American conflict: As culture wars potentially wind down, Jon predicts the next battleground will be "the war on institutions" - and discusses why Luigi Mangione might signal a shift from cultural to class warfareThis episode is free to all listeners, but please consider becoming a paid Magic + Loss subscriber. Every dollar goes to the continued fight against fascism.What Rough Beast is a reader- and listener-supported publication. To receive new posts and support this work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe
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32:55
Fear and Spectacle at ICE
This is What Rough Beast! We’re talking with Ben Wizner, the director of the ACLU’s Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project, which works to protect and expand the First Amendment freedoms of expression, association, and inquiry, and ensure that civil liberties are enhanced rather than compromised by new advances in science and technology. In this episode, we discuss:* The strategic theater behind ICE arrests - How dramatic detentions of elected officials like NYC mayoral candidate Brad Lander are designed as performances for an audience of one: Donald Trump* Why litigation is winning but can't solve Trumpism - Wizner explains how civil rights lawyers have filed 53 lawsuits in 100 days, winning many, but why legal victories alone won't address the deeper political crisis* The cases of detained activists - Updates on Rumeysa Ozturk (released from detention) and Mahmoud Khalil (still detained in Louisiana), and what their cases reveal about the administration's tactics* Terror tactics vs. autocratic control - Why the current approach resembles a protection racket more than systematic authoritarianism, using fear and spectacle rather than total surveillance* The limits and power of resistance - How 5 million people in the streets for the "No Kings" protest shows Americans aren't too afraid to mobilize, and why our response determines what kind of crisis we're actually in* The multipolar world after Trump - How three consecutive elections featuring Trump have permanently changed America's global standing, regardless of future election outcomesUnlock more content and support the project of What Rough Beast by becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe
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How to resist the regime
Last week, I spoke with human rights researcher and advocate Yaqiu Wang, whose recent NYT piece draws on the lessons of her childhood in authoritarian China. We talked about her detention in China when she was a student posting on an anonymous Twitter account, the capitulation of the elites, and how to resist obeying the regime. Watch our convo here, and or listen on Substack and anywhere you get your podcasts.Unlock more content and support the project of What Rough Beast by becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe
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Live with Nina Burleigh
Thank you to everyone who tuned into my live video! Join me for my next live video in the app. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe
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35:22
Why Populist Revolutions Always Fail
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.comYou're listening to What Rough Beast!Today we're talking with Benjamin Teitelbaum, author of "War for Eternity: The Return of Traditionalism and the Rise of the Populist Right," who studies traditionalist movements and far-right ideology. We explore why these ideas have such allure in America today, using JD Vance as our lens to examine his conversion t…
What Rough Beast, hosted by Virginia Heffernan (Wired, Trumpcast) and Stephen Metcalf (Slate, Culture Gabfest) is a podcast where we bear witness to America’s demise, and ask what might be built from the rubble. The sludge. The sparkly phosphorescent faerie dust of recombinant DNA.
It is a spiritual successor to Trumpcast, but with a radical reimagining. Instead of focusing on opposing Trump or trusting institutions, this podcast explores imaginative, unexpected responses to our current political moment. The show takes inspiration from the '68ers' motto "all power to the imagination" and seeks unconventional solutions beyond traditional political frameworks. virginiaheffernan.substack.com
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