This week, we talk to the great Sarah Stillman, Pulitzer Prize-winning staff writer at The New Yorker and MacArthur Fellow who teaches investigative reporting at Yale. Her work focuses on profiteering in the criminal justice system—from debtors' prisons and civil asset forfeiture to for-profit prison communications and companies exploiting disaster-recovery workers during climate crises. She previously ran Columbia's Global Migration Project, investigating immigration detention and asylum-seekers' rights. In this episode, we discuss:* That the numbers are staggering—180,000 people deported so far this term, with $170 billion set aside for enforcement* How family separations aren't just cruel policy—they're a deliberate tool that strips people of their humanity by cutting them off from anyone who sees them as infinitely valuable* The weird and disturbing practice of sending deportees to random countries they've never been to (like Mexican nationals being held in South Sudan)* Why enforcement is hitting people who used to be left alone—students, green card holders, even kids who are U.S. citizens* How private detention has created a system that's actually bigger than our entire federal prison system* What happens when climate change forces mass migration, and whether our current asylum laws account for it* The workers rebuilding after climate disasters—many of them climate refugees themselves—who face deportation while fixing the homes of people who vote for anti-immigration policies* Why Sarah thinks actual reporting on human stories matters way more than all the political punditry filling up our feeds* The right to hug your parent when they're in jail (yes, that's a real legal fight happening right now)This episode is free to all listeners, but please consider becoming a paid Magic + Loss subscriber. Every dollar goes to the continued fight against fascism.Magic + Loss is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe
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The Dictator Expert Who's Not Worried
This week we sit down with Alastair Smith, author of The Dictator's Handbook, who thinks we might all need to take a deep breath about American democracy. We discuss:* How it's actually better to lose in a real democracy than win under a wannabe dictator (and the math that proves it)* Why keeping 22 million voters happy is fundamentally different from bribing 100 cronies, and what that means for whether you get roads or just graft* How Trump might be accidentally sabotaging himself with tariffs and Fed-bashing (markets hate uncertainty, who knew?)* The bizarre difference between old-school Pravda propaganda and our current hellscape of lizard-people theories and testicle tanning* Real-time institutional resistance: from the FBI actually protecting threatened journalists to Jerome Powell's magnificent "I'm not stepping down" moment* Why this political scientist—who studies how dictatorships actually work—still thinks our messy, frustrating democracy has more fight left than we realizeFair warning: this conversation might leave you feeling weirdly hopeful about America. We know, we're surprised too.This episode is free to all listeners, but please consider becoming a paid Magic + Loss subscriber. Every dollar goes to the continued fight against fascism.Magic + Loss is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe
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Epstein and the Swanky Leftist Compromise
This week on What Rough Beast, Stephen and Virginia go deep on the Epstein conspiracy. Here's what we covered:* How Epstein represented a new class of ultra-wealthy who exempt themselves from democratic norms and why this scandal has traction when Trump seemed "Teflon"* Virginia's first-hand experience with John Brockman's Epstein-funded EDGE organization and the "intellectual dark web"* The physics envy pipeline from quantum mechanics to finance via IQ fetishism* How neo-Darwinism provided intellectual cover for predatory behavior* Why Trump supporters care more about "cover-ups" than actual crimes and whether cognitive fatigue could provide an off-ramp from Trump loyaltyThis episode is free to all listeners, but please consider becoming a paid Magic + Loss subscriber. Every dollar goes to the continued fight against fascism.What Rough Beast is a reader- and listener-supported publication. To receive new posts and support this work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe
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How America's Freaks Switched Sides
In this episode of What Rough Beast, we talk to David Rees, host of Election Profit Makers and creator of the legendary post-9/11 comic strip "Get Your War On," which skewered the Bush administration's War on Terror through the voices of office workers having profane conversations about cluster bombs and nation-building. We discuss:* Iraq vs. Iran rhetoric: How the arguments for bombing Iran compare to the "extremely stupid" discourse that justified the 2003 Iraq invasion, and why Trump's impulsive approach differs from Bush's ideological war machine* The evolution of American freakiness: How the cultural currency of being anti-establishment has flipped from the counterculture left to Trump's depraved right, making figures like Stephen Miller the new Rumsfeld* Clip art as social commentary: Why Rees chose anonymous office workers to represent Americans during the War on Terror* Protesting in the Trump era: Why young people aren't motivated by "orange man bad" protests but are energized by direct action against ICE, and what this means for anti-establishment politics* The Zohran Mamdani moment: How NYC's presumptive next mayor represents a new generation of unapologetically progressive politicians who terrify billionaires—and why that's exactly the pointThis episode is free to all listeners, but please consider becoming a paid Magic + Loss subscriber. Every dollar goes to the continued fight against fascism.What Rough Beast is a reader- and listener-supported publication. To receive new posts and support this work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe
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Jon Ronson Says Culture Wars Are Over
Today on What Rough Beast, we talk to Jon Ronson, the masterful narrative storyteller behind the podcast "Things Fell Apart" and author of numerous acclaimed books. Jon has spent decades chronicling how America came unraveled, with particular expertise in tracking the origins of conspiracy theories and culture wars.In this episode, we discuss:* The extraordinary coincidence of timing: How virtually every major culture war that has engulfed America since 2020 erupted within just 20 days of each other in late May/early June 2020, right after George Floyd's murder* The deadly origins of "excited delirium": Jon traces how a bogus medical diagnosis created in 1980s Miami to cover up the murders of 32 Black sex workers became the justification police officers used while standing over George Floyd's body* Why pandemics make people go insane: Drawing on historical accounts from ancient Rome to medieval plagues, we explore why viral outbreaks reliably trigger mass delusions and conspiracy thinking* The future of American conflict: As culture wars potentially wind down, Jon predicts the next battleground will be "the war on institutions" - and discusses why Luigi Mangione might signal a shift from cultural to class warfareThis episode is free to all listeners, but please consider becoming a paid Magic + Loss subscriber. Every dollar goes to the continued fight against fascism.What Rough Beast is a reader- and listener-supported publication. To receive new posts and support this work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe
What Rough Beast, hosted by Virginia Heffernan (Wired, Trumpcast) and Stephen Metcalf (Slate, Culture Gabfest) is a podcast where we bear witness to America’s demise, and ask what might be built from the rubble. The sludge. The sparkly phosphorescent faerie dust of recombinant DNA.
It is a spiritual successor to Trumpcast, but with a radical reimagining. Instead of focusing on opposing Trump or trusting institutions, this podcast explores imaginative, unexpected responses to our current political moment. The show takes inspiration from the '68ers' motto "all power to the imagination" and seeks unconventional solutions beyond traditional political frameworks. virginiaheffernan.substack.com
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